Grandinote Mach 8 XL vs Mach 9 speakers

[abeidrov]

I have an opportunity to audition either Mach 8 XL or Mach 9 speakers in my living space. Mach 8 XL is probably a more interesting choice: newer and slightly bigger model plus a horn-loaded twitter. Since I am still dreaming about Anantgarde Duo SD, I’m excited about anything related to horns
I wonder if anyone on the forum has heard both Grandinote speakers or maybe happens to own one? How do they compare?

 

[morricab]

I have an opportunity to audition either Mach 8 XL or Mach 9 speakers in my living space. Mach 8 XL is probably a more interesting choice: newer and slightly bigger model plus a horn-loaded twitter. Since I am still dreaming about Anantgarde Duo SD, I’m excited about anything related to horns
I wonder if anyone on the forum has heard both Grandinote speakers or maybe happens to own one? How do they compare?

I am also thinking about these two speakers (and an AG Duo as well). Only heard the Mach 8 XL and not the Mach 9, however, I found the Mach 8 XL to be quite impressive sounding, and it is on my short list of speakers.

 

[abeidrov]

It’s a pity there are no owners of Grandinote speakers here. I’ll post pictures and probably even videos when the speakers are brought into my place.
What can I expect from Grandinote - Mephisto pairing? Probably not an ideal choice. I’ll get a Grandinote amp to try, but ideally I would prefer some low powered tube SET to pair with the speakers.

 

[morricab]

It’s a pity there are no owners of Grandinote speakers here. I’ll post pictures and probably even videos when the speakers are brought into my place.
What can I expect from Grandinote - Mephisto pairing? Probably not an ideal choice. I’ll get a Grandinote amp to try, but ideally I would prefer some low powered tube SET to pair with the speakers.

No idea how they will sound with a big Gryphon amp. So far only heard them with Grandinote amps and Aries Cerat. I would use my 20 watt Protos on either Mach 9 or 8 XL…or one or two other high sensitivity speakers I am considering.

 

[AudioLibertarian]

I have an opportunity to audition either Mach 8 XL or Mach 9 speakers in my living space. Mach 8 XL is probably a more interesting choice: newer and slightly bigger model plus a horn-loaded twitter. Since I am still dreaming about Anantgarde Duo SD, I’m excited about anything related to horns
I wonder if anyone on the forum has heard both Grandinote speakers or maybe happens to own one? How do they compare?

A fellow audiophile&music lover has a top of the line Mach 36 (in red, probably the only Mach 36 in the world) , not far from me in NY. He has top Naim Statement amp&preamp combo and top Kuzma TT. I have heard his system extensively. I like his speakers alot, it provides a wall of sound type, very hyper real, fast, with lots of bass. He likes it that way, as he listens about 6-8 feet away, However his room is waaaaay too smal for these huge speakers, and I think the speakers just reflect the Naim amplification sound. At the Axpona 2024, I did not care for the sound of whatever model the Grandinote showed with their own amplification, as I found it harsh, and "hi-fi ish", with solid state ish overtones. However the Grandinote were showing in a much smaller room than the DUO GT was showing, so it could have been a poor set up. May be with Gryphons these will sound "better". Those Grandinote (whatever the model) did not sound to me like anything extraordinarily good to be honest with you. The AG DUO GT at that Axpona 2024 was one of the best systems, even when I was not sitting in the sweet spot. I guess it all depends on your taste and your system gear. The AG DUO horns have a very different sound signature compared to the most box speakers, like your Wilsons. You kinda need to sit little farther with the DUO, than with your Wilson, at least 3-4 meters (9-12 feet) in my experience to get a coherent picture, but if you have the space, I think AG DUO versions are definitely worth exploring.

 

[abeidrov]

I can probably sit around 3,2 - 3,4 meters, but not 4 meters. The Duo manual states that ideal position is between 3 and 4 meters, so I was hoping 3 meters would be enough. BTW, there is just one manual for UNO SD, Duo SD and Duo GT. So, all speakers have the same recommended listening distance 3 - 4m. A bit unusual as UNO is a smaller speaker and the recommended room size > 15 sqm compared to Duo with recommendation of > 20 sqm.
Anyway, since I have no access to any Avantgarde speaker, it’s all just speculation.

 

[abeidrov]

Interesting comparison of several tube amps with Grandinote Shinai driving Mach 8 XL. Looks like these speakers need a good low-powered SET to sing.
https://wieczorzanalogiem.pl/index.php/2024/09/18/grandinote-shinai-vs-lampy-recenzja-opinia/

 

[abeidrov]

Well, I have Mach 8 speakers in my room. So far, I am playing with their placement and toe in. The sound with Mephisto is OK, rather gentle, a bit less resolving than WA, a bit shy on base, basically it’s very easy to listen to. Another issue is the stereo image - it is not as good as with Sashas. Since this is a crossoverless high sensitivity speaker, I expected explosive dynamics and striking natural sound… Maybe it’s Transparent speaker cables, which are tuned to Sashas, or Mephisto is not the optimal amp to drive them. We’ll see and this is just a beginning.

 

[morricab]

Well, I have Mach 8 speakers in my room. So far, I am playing with their placement and toe in. The sound with Mephisto is OK, rather gentle, a bit less resolving than WA, a bit shy on base, basically it’s very easy to listen to. Another issue is the stereo image - it is not as good as with Sashas. Since this is a crossoverless high sensitivity speaker, I expected explosive dynamics and striking natural sound… Maybe it’s Transparent speaker cables, which are tuned to Sashas, or Mephisto is not the optimal amp to drive them. We’ll see and this is just a beginning.
View attachment 158781

Mephisto is sucking the life out of the speakers! You need to go with something else. It is not likely to be the cables. I heard these speakers in Munich with the Grandinote Solo amp and it was explosive and alive sounding. Also, bass was very good as was imaging and soundstaging. Seriously, you don't buy a speaker like this to drive it with a big, feedback SS amp.

 

[morricab]

Well, I have Mach 8 speakers in my room. So far, I am playing with their placement and toe in. The sound with Mephisto is OK, rather gentle, a bit less resolving than WA, a bit shy on base, basically it’s very easy to listen to. Another issue is the stereo image - it is not as good as with Sashas. Since this is a crossoverless high sensitivity speaker, I expected explosive dynamics and striking natural sound… Maybe it’s Transparent speaker cables, which are tuned to Sashas, or Mephisto is not the optimal amp to drive them. We’ll see and this is just a beginning.
View attachment 158781

Also, regarding bass...are these brand new and not fully broken in? I have found that many high sensitivity speakers need quite a long time to break in and produce bass because of how stiff their suspensions tend to be...perhaps just run noise through them at high levels for a while to loosen them up. You can place them face to face and wire one of them out of phase and you will cancel out most of the sound. Do that for a few days to loosen up the chasis.

 

[morricab]

Well, I have Mach 8 speakers in my room. So far, I am playing with their placement and toe in. The sound with Mephisto is OK, rather gentle, a bit less resolving than WA, a bit shy on base, basically it’s very easy to listen to. Another issue is the stereo image - it is not as good as with Sashas. Since this is a crossoverless high sensitivity speaker, I expected explosive dynamics and striking natural sound… Maybe it’s Transparent speaker cables, which are tuned to Sashas, or Mephisto is not the optimal amp to drive them. We’ll see and this is just a beginning.
View attachment 158781

Actually, looking at the rest of your system, it seems geared more towards the ultra "clean and precise" side of the equation, which might not show this kind of speaker in the best light. Wilsons tend to be a bit warmish sounding, which helps them to work better with more analytical gear...just a thought.

 

[abeidrov]

I would not call Lampi or Mephisto analytical. But I agree I should definitely try a sweet sounding 300b amp with these speakers.

 

[morricab]

Interesting comparison of several tube amps with Grandinote Shinai driving Mach 8 XL. Looks like these speakers need a good low-powered SET to sing.
https://wieczorzanalogiem.pl/index.php/2024/09/18/grandinote-shinai-vs-lampy-recenzja-opinia/

This link is very good and should tell you what you need to know...Mephisto need not apply to the job of driving these speakers. They even didn't think the Shinai is very good compared to some modest tube amps. I have heard Shinai and it is quite good sounding for a SS amp, so if you really don't want tubes then get a Grandinote amp. It won't unleash, IMO and the article's opinion you linked, all that the 8XL can do but it still is a very nice sounding SS amp.

 

[morricab]

I would not call Lampi or Mephisto analytical.

CH precision is and you have a L1 and P1 in your system. Mephisto is analytical compared to the amps in that comparison you linked. The bigger problem is that the damping factor is too high for this kind of speaker. It doesn't need or want the amp to have tight control over it. Too much feedback deadens the sound.

 

[morricab]

I guess you have to decide if you want to feed the speaker what it needs or move on to find a speaker that works better with your existing amp. IMO, one of the main points of getting a high sensitivity speaker is to unleash the ability to get really great sounding amps that don't work on "normal" sensitivity speakers so well. Every time I have put a high damping factor amp on my high sensitivity speakers it just kills the sound. I have run this experiment enough to know it is not specific to an amp brand but rather an amp topology. Another decent option would probably be something like a Riviera labs hybrid or a push/pull triode amp...like an old pair of VAC PHi 70 monos (70 watt Class A PP triode with no feedback). Of course anything from Aries Cerat will make those speakers sing...like the new 15 watt Quindecim amp, which is a single stage/single tube amplifier...quite unique.

 

[morricab]

I would not call Lampi or Mephisto analytical. But I agree I should definitely try a sweet sounding 300b amp with these speakers.

It's not about sweet sound. It's about freeing up the speaker from the too tight grip of the big, high damping factor SS amp.

 

[abeidrov]

Mephisto has no global negative feedback, so it is not connected to the ‘damping factor’? BTW I just switched from Transparent to some cheap Belden speaker cables, and I hear more bite and liveliness in the presentation

 

[morricab]

Mephisto has no global negative feedback, so it is not connected to the ‘damping factor’? BTW I just switched from Tranparent to some cheap Belden speaker cables and I hear more liveliness in the presentation

Yes, but output impedance is 0.0025 ohms. Good to hear a speaker cable change helped though.

 

[abeidrov]

The speakers definitely need more toe-in in order to come to life. The tonality of the presentation is just beautiful. I am beginning to like them very much even with Mephisto

 

[morricab]

The speakers definitely need more toe-in in order to come to life. The tonality of the presentation is just beautiful. I am beginning to like them very much even with Mephisto

I guess the horn tweeter dispersion is not so wide. I had the same situation with my Odeons, point the straight ahead and they sounded kind of ‘meh’ but toe them in to here tweeters pointed at your ears and they exploded to life. It allowed them to work well in a small room.