Good mid-price audiophile switches

[msimanyi]

For the single connection to your MU1, I wonder if Edison advised you that having a Silent Switch in addition to your Fiberbox II would be redundant. Given that both devices reclock with an OXCO, it's unclear to me what value a SS would add, when placed after a FBII.

I'm trying to decide between a single FBII Extreme, or a chain of FBII standard & SS Standard.

This is all, of course, for people like us who do not need the additional connections the SS offers.

Well, here's how Edison replied to my inquiry:

Actually, your Streamer system is very simple just one Grimm MU1

Fiberbox ii would be the best option for your network enhancement.

Because Fiberbox have LAN to optical, Optical to LAN isolation and OCXO synchronous clock to optimize the 2 fiber modules to reduce jitter.

So you just connect Fiberbox ii between your unifi switch and Grimm MU1 will get the great improvement.

Below is the price for standard version and Extreme version.

Extreme will have deeper punching and wider sounds stage.


That said, I've heard/read that stacking certain network components optimized for audio can yield excellent results, as Mark mentions above. I'm thinking of doing the same.

 

[Atriya]

Well, here's how Edison replied to my inquiry:

Actually, your Streamer system is very simple just one Grimm MU1

Fiberbox ii would be the best option for your network enhancement.

Because Fiberbox have LAN to optical, Optical to LAN isolation and OCXO synchronous clock to optimize the 2 fiber modules to reduce jitter.

So you just connect Fiberbox ii between your unifi switch and Grimm MU1 will get the great improvement.

Below is the price for standard version and Extreme version.

Extreme will have deeper punching and wider sounds stage.


That said, I've heard/read that stacking certain network components optimized for audio can yield excellent results, as Mark mentions above. I'm thinking of doing the same.

This is extremely helpful; thanks a lot. Edison's response to me can be interpreted to mean the same, but unfortunately it was also ambiguous. Mostly likely a language barrier issue. Having two different emails from him helps a lot.

I think I will get just a FBII Extreme for now.

 

[howiebrou]

This is extremely helpful; thanks a lot. Edison's response to me can be interpreted to mean the same, but unfortunately it was also ambiguous. Mostly likely a language barrier issue. Having two different emails from them helps a lot.

I think I will get just an FBII Extreme for now.

If you want me to give Edison a call let me know!

 

[Atriya]

If you want me to give Edison a call let me know!

Thanks, though it shouldn't be necessary. Are you affiliated with him?

I will probably wait a bit to buy. I just ordered a pair of cheap fiber media converters to test that fiber indeed has a positive influence on my system, before I buy something as expensive as the FBII Extreme.

 

[howiebrou]

Thanks, though it shouldn't be necessary. Are you affiliated with him?

I will probably wait a bit to buy. I just ordered a pair of cheap fiber media converters to test that fiber indeed has a positive influence on my system, before I buy something as expensive as the FBII Extreme.

No affiliation. Just a friend.

 

[NigelB]

That said, I've heard/read that stacking certain network components optimized for audio can yield excellent results, as Mark mentions above. I'm thinking of doing the same.

When we talk about network components for audio, we're usually mainly concerned about noise. Optical is fantastic at killing (as in 100% removing) noise up that point, as it simply can't be transferred over an optical connection; unfortunately even audiophile fiber media converters can themselves be noisy. Ethernet switches are theoretically not as good at the noise-killing but audiophile ones are pretty darned good at minimising/eliminating their own noise which is added back in.

So if I had to stack an optical thing and a switch thing, I'd put the optical thing first in the chain. The optical does the heavy lifting and the switch only has the optical thing's own generated noise to clean up.

Edited to mention @Atriya who commented on same earlier.

 

[Atriya]

When we talk about network components for audio, we're usually mainly concerned about noise. Optical is fantastic at killing (as in 100% removing) noise up that point, as it simply can't be transferred over an optical connection; unfortunately even audiophile fiber media converters can themselves be noisy. Ethernet switches are theoretically not as good at the noise-killing but audiophile ones are pretty darned good at minimising/eliminating their own noise which is added back in.

So if I had to stack an optical thing and a switch thing, I'd put the optical thing first in the chain. The optical does the heavy lifting and the switch only has the optical thing's own generated noise to clean up.

Edited to mention @Atriya who commented on same earlier.

Makes sense. I just tried a pair of TrendNet FMCs with TrendNet single-mode SFPs, just to test the impact of optical on my system. The results were very positive.

As an aside, even the designer of my DAC (the technical Grammy-award winning Daniel Weiss), had suggested to me that noise over ethernet shouldn't be an issue and measures to isolate it shouldn't be needed. He referred to the fact that ethernet connections are galvanically isolated by design.

I still have my Pink Faun LAN isolator in the chain, after the FMCs. Maybe it is serving to clean up any noise the SFPs produce, as you suggest. At the least, it doesn't do any harm.

Next stop will be the Fiberbox II (in a couple of months).

 

[audiobomber]

When we talk about network components for audio, we're usually mainly concerned about noise. Optical is fantastic at killing (as in 100% removing) noise up that point, as it simply can't be transferred over an optical connection; unfortunately even audiophile fiber media converters can themselves be noisy. Ethernet switches are theoretically not as good at the noise-killing but audiophile ones are pretty darned good at minimising/eliminating their own noise which is added back in.

So if I had to stack an optical thing and a switch thing, I'd put the optical thing first in the chain. The optical does the heavy lifting and the switch only has the optical thing's own generated noise to clean up.

Edited to mention @Atriya who commented on same earlier.

I'm a big proponent of fiber optic cable but I disagree that optical connection removes all noise. My network is:
NAS > ethernet cable > Silent Angel N8 > ethernet cable > opticalModule Deluxe v2 > Corning single-mode fiber > EtherRegen
Ethernet cables are BJC CAT6a and modified Furutech LAN-8 NCF. SFP's are Finisar 1318. Linear power supplies on N8, oMD and ER.

I change the sound if I change the ethernet cable between the NAS and N8, or from the N8 to the oMD, and I can hear the effect of power supply changes on the N8. These occur upstream of the fiber conversion. If all noise were blocked by the fiber, I should not be able to hear the changes.

 

[darkfrank]

I'm a big proponent of fiber optic cable but I disagree that optical connection removes all noise. My network is:
NAS > ethernet cable > Silent Angel N8 > ethernet cable > opticalModule Deluxe v2 > Corning single-mode fiber > EtherRegen
Ethernet cables are BJC CAT6a and modified Furutech LAN-8 NCF. SFP's are Finisar 1318. Linear power supplies on N8, oMD and ER.

I change the sound if I change the ethernet cable between the NAS and N8, or from the N8 to the oMD, and I can hear the effect of power supply changes on the N8. These occur upstream of the fiber conversion. If all noise were blocked by the fiber, I should not be able to hear the changes.

There is nothing in the world that can 100% remove noise. It still gets dumped into the power grid through grounding, polluting downstream equipment. Although my music server does not connect with the home network, the sound quality is still affected by changing the power supplies of the home routers/modem.

 

[TRHH]

There is nothing in the world that can 100% remove noise. It still gets dumped into the power grid through grounding, polluting downstream equipment. Although my music server does not connect with the home network, the sound quality is still affected by changing the power supplies of the home routers/modem.

Complete galvanic isolation from the mains:

 

[audiobomber]

Complete galvanic isolation from the mains:

View attachment 112401

You are still connected to AC power at several locations.

 

[Republicoftexas69]

You are still connected to AC power at several locations.

Splitting hairs no?

 

[darkfrank]

I believe the only way to achieve 100% galvanic isolation from the mains is by connecting your entire hi-fi system to a battery, such as a Stromtank or similar device, and disconnecting it from the mains. Oh, and make sure the earth is not connected.

 

[audiobomber]

Splitting hairs no?

Not at all. Everything connected to the AC system in your home affects everything else. For example my internet provider's modem came with a wall wart. I replaced it with an iPower SMPS and heard an improvement in my main system, even when playing from the NAS, where the modem was not directly in the playback chain.

 

[Republicoftexas69]

Not at all. Everything connected to the AC system in your home affects everything else. For example my internet provider's modem came with a wall wart. I replaced it with an iPower SMPS and heard an improvement in my main system, even when playing from the NAS, where the modem was not directly in the playback chain.

Not the case when one has dedicated lines, 4 of them going to their listening space. Has any and all switches isolated to their line with LPS. Als have additional clocking and isolation in the chain for extra measures. TRHH layout is very similar to my system other than our entire house is fiber from the substation and throughout our house.

 

[audiobomber]

Not the case when one has dedicated lines, 4 of them going to their listening space. Has any and all switches isolated to their line with LPS. Als have additional clocking and isolation in the chain for extra measures. TRHH layout is very similar to my system other than our entire house is fiber from the substation and throughout our house.

Dedicated lines do not provide 100% galvanic isolation as @TRHH claimed.

 

[Republicoftexas69]

Dedicated lines do not provide 100% galvanic isolation as @TRHH claimed.

But when you have dedicated lines, LPS, F/O, Galvanic Isolation on the short run of Cat6,7,8 clocking and isolation on USB. You have a heck of a dark, quite, digital front end. Every measure we have taken has netted a marked improvement in SQ and lowering noise floor. Hair split.

 

[darkfrank]

The problem is how dedicated your dedicated line was. If it was coming from the same building, then it won't help with isolation.

 

[NigelB]

There is nothing in the world that can 100% remove noise. It still gets dumped into the power grid through grounding, polluting downstream equipment. Although my music server does not connect with the home network, the sound quality is still affected by changing the power supplies of the home routers/modem.

Absolutely this. The quality of a power supply is hugely important, but we need to be clear about how the noise a lower quality power supply generates might get to the place it will/can affect sound quality. The power grid is one way this can happen and it's an important and often overlooked factor.

 

[NigelB]

I'm a big proponent of fiber optic cable but I disagree that optical connection removes all noise. My network is:
NAS > ethernet cable > Silent Angel N8 > ethernet cable > opticalModule Deluxe v2 > Corning single-mode fiber > EtherRegen
Ethernet cables are BJC CAT6a and modified Furutech LAN-8 NCF. SFP's are Finisar 1318. Linear power supplies on N8, oMD and ER.

I change the sound if I change the ethernet cable between the NAS and N8, or from the N8 to the oMD, and I can hear the effect of power supply changes on the N8. These occur upstream of the fiber conversion. If all noise were blocked by the fiber, I should not be able to hear the changes.

I hugely respect your experiences but have to argue with your rationale. There is simply no mechanism by which noise can be transferred over an optical cable. Well, not one I'm aware of, so you'll need to educate me if you feel different. Noise is transferred over electrical connections and no such connection exists using optical.

Power supply changes can and will absolutely make a difference - as @darkfrank says, you say, and my own personal experiences testify. The noise any PSU produces cannot be transmitted over an optical connection though; it's in the electrical circuit feeding your equipment.

I don't know what is happening if you hear a difference when you change either of those ethernet cables but the final Corning fiber will kill any noise being transmitted with the data which contains the digitised music.