Future progress in reproduced sound

[Lee]

OK, thank you Lee. I understand that you don’t like it. If you can generalize, what specific sonic characteristic do you attribute to an equilateral triangle presentation?

Jim Smith voiced my old Magico Mini 2 system to my room and it sounded great with his roughly 83% ratio and a fair amount of toe in. Then my later Magico Q3 system had a similar ratio tweeter to tweeter vs listening seat with speakers aimed straight ahead. In both of these cases, if I moved the speakers further apart to get that equilateral triangle, the sound became thinner with less body and rich tone and the center image suffered. So that is what I actually heard from such a positioning.

Now admittedly, my corner horns are completely different and I am more or less at an equilateral triangle of 15 feet in my squarish room. And occasionally, I actually sit 7 feet away from each upper horn throat because it is the smoothest room response. This is basically directly on access with the center of the horn. This is where the tone is the purest, and the sound most immediate.

Lack of musical involvement. With Jim’s setup, I have heard more presence, dynamics, and tone.

 

[Lee]

Ok, a recent setup of mine did fall within the 0.82 - 0.84 range. Yet my current one, with speakers in a different position in the room, doesn't at an 0.91 ratio. It clearly sounds better too. Does that make it "wrong" nonetheless?

My bet is the equilateral setup doesn’t actually sound better. However, if you are happy with it that’s what matters.

 

[PeterA]

Lack of musical involvement. With Jim’s setup, I have heard more presence, dynamics, and tone.

Yes, those are the three sonic attributes he sets up for. These all improved for me too when he was finished, though I would be very curious to go back and experiment further with the speakers aimed straight ahead with no toe-in and none of the acoustic treatments I had when Jim was here. Of course it is too late now. He did tell me he accepts as a given the treatments in the room and does not generally add or remove them. He did play with rotating the Tube Traps.

 

[Al M.]

My bet is the equilateral setup doesn’t actually sound better. However, if you are happy with it that’s what matters.

Yes, that's what matters. Also, it's not exactly equilateral.

And you would know that the 0.82 - 0.84 ratio would sound better exactly how? Don't forget I said that recently I had exactly that (with speakers in another spot in the room). So from afar you have more experience with my room and setup than I do, who have dealt with it in person for a long time? That's called "arm chair expertise" and it's ridiculous.

Look, I have no doubt that Jim Smith was able to work miracles in your room and I am happy for you. But respectfully, you can keep the guru worship for yourself.

 

[microstrip]

My mistake. Distance from the front wall is actually 112”.
I have a pretty unusual room. 15 feet wide, 9’ high, 45’ long.

It sounds good, but naturally different, all over the room.

Thanks - similar to what I have now!

 

[Lee]

Yes, that's what matters. Also, it's not exactly equilateral.

And you would know that the 0.82 - 0.84 ratio would sound better exactly how? Don't forget I said that recently I had exactly that (with speakers in another spot in the room). So from afar you have more experience with my room and setup than I do, who have dealt with it in person for a long time? That's called "arm chair expertise" and it's ridiculous.

Look, I have no doubt that Jim Smith was able to work miracles in your room and I am happy for you. But respectfully, you can keep the guru worship for yourself.

No guru worship here. It’s just a recognition that there is a formula which has worked across thousands of rooms.

 

[Lee]

Yes, those are the three sonic attributes he sets up for. These all improved for me too when he was finished, though I would be very curious to go back and experiment further with the speakers aimed straight ahead with no toe-in and none of the acoustic treatments I had when Jim was here. Of course it is too late now. He did tell me he accepts as a given the treatments in the room and does not generally add or remove them. He did play with rotating the Tube Traps.

He suggested the front wall and first reflection point treatments that he uses in his room. We added those in and they worked very well.

 

[Al M.]

No guru worship here. It’s just a recognition that there is a formula which has worked across thousands of rooms.

Great. As I said it is a very useful average and guiding point, but it is not always the last word in every situation.

On this thread alone you already have three people who prefer a different ratio. And none of them was thoughtless about it; all experimented.