First Watt SIT 5

[Tangram]

This may help you:

Kent English at Pass, who will probably answer the phone when you call, uses an XA25 at home. His wife is a musician and he says she says that one sounds the best. You should talk to him about the XA25.

Also, when I visited GR-Research recently, these were there... you may find a conversation with Danny Richie to be interesting. I think he knows Greg at Volti well and may be able to offer you some good advice about your speaker, in general.

I've seen the corrected response of this one:

View attachment 156885

Just remember the XA25 only has RCA inputs. If that works, then I can heartily recommend the XA25. I use it with 8 ohm, 92 db speakers and love everything about it except it’s a tiny bit bass lean. That’s why I’m using my subs in the most recent iteration of my system.

 

[Earthbound]

@jmimac351 Thank you. I have spoken to Kent many times. He is very knowledgeable and extremely patient! I know he loves the xa-25 which originally put it on the top of the list. Then I spoke to John, Pass dealer for a million years, and he loves the Sit-5! Aaahh
Perhaps one last conversation with both of them and I will decide. I appreciate you reaching out.

 

[Earthbound]

@Tangram That may be the deciding factor. Which one presents bass with more authority. Also, which one perhaps “softens” the presentation a little more. I’m still adjusting to horns. They are dynamic and exciting for sure.

 

[Tony M]

If you read the Stereophile review of the SIT-3, you'll see the reviewer had an issue with it running his 16ohm speakers. That was not a surprise to Nelson. A pair of resistors on the speakers put them at a load the SIT-3 liked much better, and the reviewer loved the amp.

I mention that because it would definitely be a good idea to reach out to Kent at Pass, and maybe even Nelson... ask about the 16ohm thing.

Also, if you read the manuals for the SIT-4 and SIT-5, you'll find commentary like this (from SIT-5 manual):

https://www.firstwatt.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/SIT-5-OM.pdf

View attachment 156883

Yes, that's very interesting info - thank you so much for bringing it to my attention. Because the SIT-3 has so much in common with the SIT-5, especially in terms of the power characteristics into 4 and 8 ohms, I'm concerned that the SIT-5 might have similar issues into my 18 ohm Avantgardes.
The SIT-2 and SIT-4 are both known to perform well with Avantgardes according to several reviews so the SIT-4 might be a safer bet despite my preference for monobocs
I've been discussing this with Desmond of Passlabs via email and he advises the dealers he has spoken to that have used SIT amps with Avantgardes have significantly preferred the SIT-5, though he hasn't elaborated on the reasons for that preference apart from the increased power.
I feel I'm already testing his patience so I'm reluctant to push my enquiry further.
If I could compare them anywhere in Australia, I'd use some frequent flyer points and go for a trip to audition. Unfortunately, I doubt this is possible as they are pretty rare here.
No harm in asking the importer/distributor though, so I'll probably do this tomorrow.

 

[Hubert]

Hi @everyone,
I just got my long awaited for SIT-5 and XA25.
Could any of the older owners here tell me more about the run-in time please?
TIA
Hubert

 

[Earthbound]

Hi @everyone,
I just got my long awaited for SIT-5 and XA25.
Could any of the older owners here tell me more about the run-in time please?
TIA
Hubert

Congratulations. Look forward to hearing your impressions.

 

[Semiquavergarydesmondschu]

Hi @everyone,
I just got my long awaited for SIT-5 and XA25.
Could any of the older owners here tell me more about the run-in time please?
TIA
Hubert

Hi Hubert
I do not have the SIT 5, I own the SIT 4.

I was tempted to buy the SIT 5 based on its monoblock configuration which was my preference. I did not need the extra power provided by the SIT 5 over the SIT 4 with my Cube Audio Nenuphar speakers with their 91dB/watt efficiency. I also read that the damping factor or 2 with the SIT 4 is better suited to the Nenuphar's.

To answer your question, I had a loaner SIT 4 for three weeks until last Tuesday when my unit was finally delivered. The loaner was the demonstration unit used by the retailer and had at least 6 months of regular use so I think we could assume it was well run in.

I turned off the loaner at 6 pm on Monday night and had the new unit up and listening at 12:30pm on Tuesday. I played my usual demo tracks to hear how it sounded and I could detect no difference in sound quality between the two. From my timeline, 18 hours had elapsed between auditioning both amplifier, so it was not an immediate A/B comparison but as close as I will ever get.

I did notice a difference (improvement) in audio quality after 30 minutes of use on the new unit.

After owning EL34 & 300B SET ampilifiers for 40 years, I am definitely not a "burn-in denier/denialist" and I suspect that components such as capacitors & valves (tubes) did improve with time, but then, I could just be imagining it.

My above auditioning experience with the loaner SIT 4 vs. the brand new SIT 4 is the first time in my audiophile career that I have come close to a true, controlled experiment on the theory of component burn-in. Of course, my slightly flawed comparison was based on this amplifier only. Other component may quite well benefit from burn-in.

If the delivery person had had more time and I had had the opportunity to do a direct, double blind listening test with a panel of recognised audiophiles (with their latest audiograms) then I could have provide a more definitive answer.

Gary

 

[jmimac351]

Hi @everyone,
I just got my long awaited for SIT-5 and XA25.
Could any of the older owners here tell me more about the run-in time please?
TIA
Hubert

We have music playing for several hours in the morning and several hours in the evening, every day. For the last 2 weeks, they've been on almost 24/7. I think they've been off overnight twice so far.

There is a little grain for the first 3 or 4 days. By the first weekend things had started to refine in the treble, settle in. That is all in context though... probably in the first few hours after firing them up for the first time, I knew they were unlike anything I'd heard before.

It is also true, listening to them from cold, there is a notable difference in sound quality. They do need a good half hour warm up, but then there it is.

I'm 2 weeks in on the SIT-5 and I want for nothing. I think they are incredible.

 

[jmimac351]

Yes, that's very interesting info - thank you so much for bringing it to my attention. Because the SIT-3 has so much in common with the SIT-5, especially in terms of the power characteristics into 4 and 8 ohms, I'm concerned that the SIT-5 might have similar issues into my 18 ohm Avantgardes.
The SIT-2 and SIT-4 are both known to perform well with Avantgardes according to several reviews so the SIT-4 might be a safer bet despite my preference for monobocs

After reading similar comments in the manuals, I also thought the SIT-3 and SIT-5 would perform similarly with regard to speaker interaction. That is not the case, IME - and I am really glad I actually tried it.

The SIT-5 can drive much tougher loads compared to the SIT-3. I have found the SIT-3 is really in its own with easy to drive 2-way speakers - and it is GREAT with those.

Keep in mind, the SIT-4 and SIT-5 use a different SIT (Tokin) than the SIT-3. The SIT-3 and SIT-5 sound quite different, but both are great in their own ways... different flavors.

A final conversation with Kent at Pass Labs about the SIT-5 is what helped me decide to buy them.

 

[Earthbound]

Glad to hear you are enjoying the sit-5. I’m currently in analysis paralysis between the sit-4, sit-5 and int-25. So, keep posting your impressions! Having a 300b now makes me think the logical replacement would be the 4 or 5. I love the sound. The 10 watts is what has me thinking sit-5 instead.

 

[Earthbound]

@jmimac351 It would just be easier for me if you said it is the best amp ever and that I’d be a fool not to buy it! Lol

 

[Earthbound]

@jmimac351 Do you find the amp has a low noise floor? Is it quiet during rest and quiet passages?

 

[Semiquavergarydesmondschu]

Glad to hear you are enjoying the sit-5. I’m currently in analysis paralysis between the sit-4, sit-5 and int-25. So, keep posting your impressions! Having a 300b now makes me think the logical replacement would be the 4 or 5. I love the sound. The 10 watts is what has me thinking sit-5 instead.

Hi Earthbound
I wanted to buy the SIT 5 instead of the SIT 4 because I already had a pair of 300B SET monoblocks. I did not need to extra power of the SIT 5 but the thing that made me go for the SIT 4 was its very low damping factor of only 2 (the SIT 5 has a DF of 25 which is still low).

Power amplifier - speaker synergy is very important, especially in the case of Cube Audio Nenuphar speakers.
My speakers have a sensitivity of 91 dBA per watt and I am listening in a room 28 x 14 x 10 feet and the 10 watts of the SIT 4 is more than enough.

What speakers do you have? What is their efficiency and importantly, preferred damping factor? How big is your listening room? How loud do you play it? Obviously, a home demo with your speakers, room dimensions and the music at a level you like is the best way to audition an amplifier. I appreciate that this is almost impossible to organise. I have been very fortunate to have had two in home speaker demo sessions.

The specs on S/N ratio are better on the SIT 5 than on the SIT 4 but on my speakers it is academic. With my ear one foot from the driver I could not hear any noise whatsoever. This is a pleasant change from the hum or the hiss from my previous valve amplification.

Gary

 

[Earthbound]

Hi Earthbound
I wanted to buy the SIT 5 instead of the SIT 4 because I already had a pair of 300B SET monoblocks. I did not need to extra power of the SIT 5 but the thing that made me go for the SIT 4 was its very low damping factor of only 2 (the SIT 5 has a DF of 25 which is still low).

Power amplifier - speaker synergy is very important, especially in the case of Cube Audio Nenuphar speakers.
My speakers have a sensitivity of 91 dBA per watt and I am listening in a room 28 x 14 x 10 feet and the 10 watts of the SIT 4 is more than enough.

What speakers do you have? What is their efficiency and importantly, preferred damping factor? How big is your listening room? How loud do you play it? Obviously, a home demo with your speakers, room dimensions and the music at a level you like is the best way to audition an amplifier. I appreciate that this is almost impossible to organise. I have been very fortunate to have had two in home speaker demo sessions.

The specs on S/N ratio are better on the SIT 5 than on the SIT 4 but on my speakers it is academic. With my ear one foot from the driver I could not hear any noise whatsoever. This is a pleasant change from the hum or the hiss from my previous valve amplification.

Gary

Thanks for the reply Gary. I have the Volti Lucera’s with a sensitivity of 99db(probably more like 97db). My listening room is 23ft x 16ft. I just emailed Greg at Volti to determine the damping factor requirements of the Lucera’s.
I typically listen to music between 65-80db. But, when I’m in the adjoining kitchen, 3 season room or just listening to rock/metal loud, I’d like to keep the dynamics and bass control. Not sure if it’s the 8 watts or if it’s a 300b tube amp thing, but I’d like a bit more authority in the bass. The Volti’s are more efficient than the Audio Notes I had previously and some of my concerns have been alleviated. But, I am thinking of the future a bit. More power will allow a wider speaker choices down the line if I have to downsize from these behemoths! I’m not knowledgeable or experienced enough to know if the Sit-5 will be too much. Will more power give me the more powerful sound and oomph at the same volumes?
I will share what Greg tells me regarding the damping factor requirements. That may answer my question for me.

 

[Earthbound]

Greg said the speakers are super flexible and take on the sound characteristics of the amp that’s playing. If I want a looser, tube like sound, go with the lower damping factor.

 

[Semiquavergarydesmondschu]

Greg said the speakers are super flexible and take on the sound characteristics of the amp that’s playing. If I want a looser, tube like sound, go with the lower damping factor.

Hi Earthbound
Greg's response sounds logical regarding the sound characterisics.
For me, it was a no-brainer with pairing the SIT 4 with the Cube Audio Nenuphar speakers. You make a very valid point about the limitations on the 10 Watts of power with the SIT 4 and this would restrict your choice on speakers in the future, assuming you choose to change from the Volit Lucera's.
I am not upgrading my speakers or amplifier.

If I was to spend any more money on my hifi it might be to upgrade my streamer from an Auralic Aries G2 to an Aries G2.2. As I am now on the flat part of the new hifi component Cost/Benefit curve, I may not upgrade anything in my system .

Gary

 

[iaxel]

I have a SIT4 on order, planned to arrive in the next couple of weeks.
I also have a Yamamoto A-09s (300B), Air Tight ATM-300R and some 211-based SET monoblocks to compare them with the SIT4 on my 99dB speakers (horn-based with large woofers).

 

[Earthbound]

Hi Earthbound
Greg's response sounds logical regarding the sound characterisics.
For me, it was a no-brainer with pairing the SIT 4 with the Cube Audio Nenuphar speakers. You make a very valid point about the limitations on the 10 Watts of power with the SIT 4 and this would restrict your choice on speakers in the future, assuming you choose to change from the Volit Lucera's.
I am not upgrading my speakers or amplifier.

If I was to spend any more money on my hifi it might be to upgrade my streamer from an Auralic Aries G2 to an Aries G2.2. As I am now on the flat part of the new hifi component Cost/Benefit curve, I may not upgrade anything in my system .

Gary

I’d like to get to that same level of satisfaction. I had my first system for 23 years with zero problems. I’d like this round to take me a long way. After the amp, I too need to address the streamer. I currently use the LUMIN u2 mini. Hopefully that will be all. I’m quite pleased with my Rockna Wavedream dac. Looking forward to getting off the buying and selling merry go round.

 

[Semiquavergarydesmondschu]

I have a SIT4 on order, planned to arrive in the next couple of weeks.
I also have a Yamamoto A-09s (300B), Air Tight ATM-300R and some 211-based SET monoblocks to compare them with the SIT4 on my 99dB speakers (horn-based with large woofers).

Hi iaxel
You have a fine collection of 300B amplifiers there ! The only thing "Made in Japan" on my Melody Darkstar 300B-1 amplifiers were the c-cores inside the transformers.

I did some major valve (tube) rolling with 1956 Mullard inverters, Sylvania 274 NOS drivers and EML 300B XLS outputs. Made a huge difference to the sound compared to the original Chinese tubes (esp. the Sylvania driver - that was a surprise ).

The First Watt SIT 4 beats the heavily rolled 300B convincingly.

The bass is deeper, better controlled and has more texture (harmonics on plucked double bass clearly heard). The high frequencies are detailed and 3-dimensional. The midrange is more detailed and voices are more natural sounding. There is NOTHING that I miss about my Melody 300B. I tried to sell it - no one wanted it.

I would like to qualify my excitement about the SIT 4 and that is it appears to be the perfect match with my Cube Audio widebanders. With a different speaker, such as your "horn-based with large woofers" the results may be different. You certainly do not have any problem with the 10 watts of power.

I await with anticipation what your ears tell you about the SIT 4 with your speakers.

Gary

 

[jmimac351]

@jmimac351 It would just be easier for me if you said it is the best amp ever and that I’d be a fool not to buy it! Lol

It is the best amp ever (so far that I've heard) and you'd be a fool not to buy it (after talking to Kent about the speakers you have).

Reading thru the FW manuals, Nelson leaves thoughts about various things, including how various amps might compare to one another for help with how it will work / sound.

He is very modest and does not brag. He chooses his words very carefully, and if he says some of his amps sound like triode tubes, it is worth noting. He lets others brag on his amps.

Below is from the F7 manual, and it's where he more or less says, with more clarity than I have seen elsewhere "these SIT amps sound like triode tubes"... (or better).