The XA25 doesn’t sound like the SIT-5. That’s really the only issue with that suggestion.I own a First Watt SIT-3, Pass Labs XA30.8, and Pass Labs XA200.5 monos.
I really like the SIT-3. I've gotten a nice taste of it on my Wilson Duette, and have wondered about what more power would be like via the SIT-5, and the fact they would likely be setups I could live with for a very long time (SIT-3 and SIT-5 Monos).
So the main issue is power, and it raises some questions. When I look at the Stereophile review of the SIT-3 and the measurements, it measures 8.4wpc into 8ohms at 1% "clipping". At 3% is when it gets to close to 18w (16.8wpc).
I do not listen loud (why I can consider SIT-3 and SIT-5), but the only reason for me going after the SIT-5 is more power with similar flavor... the actual power and whether it will "deliver" needs to be verified.
I am listening to 86-90db "regular 2-way speakers" but will also have a pair of Line Arrays at 96db. I know the SIT-3 will be great for the Line Arrays.
As for the SIT-5 power claims... and seeing actual measurements for the SIT-3 appear to show quite a bit less than rated - it makes me want to "Trust, but verify".
I have not reached out to Nelson about this as he is extremely generous and I don't want to bother him, unless I have to. That is a hypothetical that will give me an "educated guess" about what I will experience with the SIT-5 monos.
I am trying to get some perspective relative to things I already own. For instance, the SIT-5 power ratings are similar to the XA30.8. The XA30.8 will play much larger than the numbers indicate... it will surprise. Things I wonder about is whether the SIT-5 monos will deliver a similar experience in that regard, or will they run out of power before the XA30.8 will?
I'll note that when I asked a certain someone at Pass about the SIT-5 because of liking the SIT-3... I received a nice reply about the XA25... a guiding hand pointing at something I may wish to, or even should, consider.
Still chewing on all of it...
Excerpt from Stereophile review of SIT-3:
First Watt SIT-3 power amplifier Measurements | Stereophile.com
Sidebar 3: Measurements I performed a full set of measurements on the First Watt SIT-3, using my Audio Precision SYS2722 system (see the January 2008 "As We See It"). Before doing any testing, I preconditioned the SIT-3 by running it at one-third power into 8 ohms for an hour. At the end of that...www.stereophile.com
View attachment 153942
First Watt SIT 5
- Thread starter Axel C
- Start date
Thank you.
I wondered the same thing but I think it was also an example of how there are a lot of FW / Pass options for "Being Happy".
True enough. It’s interesting to me how much I’ve liked FW and disliked Pass in a truly consistent way
I've also had the SIT3, 4, and 5 which replaced the XA60.8. Initially I thought I'd use the 60.8 when I wanted more power but in six months I've never swapped them back in. As you probably know, the SIT 3 and 5 topology is similar as is their sonic character (to me a least). I also have an array of Wilson speakers including the Duette (1 & 2, which oddly require more power than their bigger siblings). The Duettes are the only speakers that didn't pair well with the J2 - I don't recall ever pairing them with the SIT3 but they are wonderful with the XA25. The SIT5 has A LOT more power than the SIT3 so I suspect they will drive the Duettes to fairly loud/dynamic levels.I own a First Watt SIT-3, Pass Labs XA30.8, and Pass Labs XA200.5 monos.
I really like the SIT-3. I've gotten a nice taste of it on my Wilson Duette, and have wondered about what more power would be like via the SIT-5, and the fact they would likely be setups I could live with for a very long time (SIT-3 and SIT-5 Monos).
So the main issue is power, and it raises some questions. When I look at the Stereophile review of the SIT-3 and the measurements, it measures 8.4wpc into 8ohms at 1% "clipping". At 3% is when it gets to close to 18w (16.8wpc).
I do not listen loud (why I can consider SIT-3 and SIT-5), but the only reason for me going after the SIT-5 is more power with similar flavor... the actual power and whether it will "deliver" needs to be verified.
I am listening to 86-90db "regular 2-way speakers" but will also have a pair of Line Arrays at 96db. I know the SIT-3 will be great for the Line Arrays.
As for the SIT-5 power claims... and seeing actual measurements for the SIT-3 appear to show quite a bit less than rated - it makes me want to "Trust, but verify".
I have not reached out to Nelson about this as he is extremely generous and I don't want to bother him, unless I have to. That is a hypothetical that will give me an "educated guess" about what I will experience with the SIT-5 monos.
I am trying to get some perspective relative to things I already own. For instance, the SIT-5 power ratings are similar to the XA30.8. The XA30.8 will play much larger than the numbers indicate... it will surprise. Things I wonder about is whether the SIT-5 monos will deliver a similar experience in that regard, or will they run out of power before the XA30.8 will?
I'll note that when I asked a certain someone at Pass about the SIT-5 because of liking the SIT-3... I received a nice reply about the XA25... a guiding hand pointing at something I may wish to, or even should, consider.
Still chewing on all of it...
Excerpt from Stereophile review of SIT-3:
First Watt SIT-3 power amplifier Measurements | Stereophile.com
Sidebar 3: Measurements I performed a full set of measurements on the First Watt SIT-3, using my Audio Precision SYS2722 system (see the January 2008 "As We See It"). Before doing any testing, I preconditioned the SIT-3 by running it at one-third power into 8 ohms for an hour. At the end of that...
View attachment 153942
Thank you for that feedback. XA60.8 were exactly what I was thinking as a replacement for XA200.5... I just don't need XA200.5, and I acquired them via a trade (because why not?). I was thinking of XA60.8 for the same reason... "for when I need more power". Glad to know the SIT-5 takes care of that!
The Duette are great with SIT-3.
By the way, if you want to try a different crossover on your Duette 1, let me know. I can send to you and you can listen for a bit. It transforms the speaker from FORWARD / "RESOLUTION" to being Balanced, top to bottom. Because the bass becomes better balanced, it sounds like a floor standing speaker... still on a stand. I'm not a "Wilson speaker guy", but I really like the Duette with this network.
I like 8" 2-way speakers, period.
I believe the Alexia and similar Wilson floorstanders drop to 2ohms (or under) at around 100hz(?), something like that. Not the easiest load, and I'm glad the SIT-3 does well with them.
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@Axel C I have located 2 pairs of SIT-5 and am thinking I will go that way. One thing I talked to a few people, briefly, about today was output of SIT-5 compared to XA30.8. My only uncertainty is output from the SIT-5, and comparing it to XA30.8, which I own, may help me get comfortable. I think I read that you have an XA25, so comparing to that would be helpful too, I suppose.
The output of the SIT-5 does not appear to act the same as the higher output seen from the normal XA amps, e.g., XA30.8 play well above rated Class A power spec, when going into A/B - which is a great thing about those amps.
It would be really nice to demo these, but the deals that appear to be available may make them worth a shot either way.
One pair in black, one pair in silver. First World problems.
The output of the SIT-5 does not appear to act the same as the higher output seen from the normal XA amps, e.g., XA30.8 play well above rated Class A power spec, when going into A/B - which is a great thing about those amps.
It would be really nice to demo these, but the deals that appear to be available may make them worth a shot either way.
One pair in black, one pair in silver. First World problems.
While the SIT5 has a lot more power than the other FW amps I haven't compared the SIT5 and XA25 directly as they are in two different locations/systems. To be safe I suggest you contact Pass who will probably give clear guidance to your concerns.
Thank You.
I tried that. There is always a very nice reply, often times not as definitive as the question asked, and I think I understand why.
I will share this in case it is helpful to others going down this FW path. I was planning to pull the trigger on a pair of SIT-5 yesterday, but I have pumped the brakes.
The reason is - a pair of speakers I picked up last week. Clearwave Loudspeaker Symphonia 1. Not many made, not well known... but top shelf Accuton Tweet / Mid, and SS Illuminator woofer. Enclosure built extremely well. Mundorf / Cardas parts. All great stuff. 4 ohm speakers, 86db... certainly not the easiest load, but SIT-3 is a "4-8 ohm amp" (that's what the numbers say!) and we've read about needing a resistor for 16ohm, etc. SIT-3 Power increases into 4ohm from 8, so we should be "OK", right?
So, I hook the Clearwave speakers up to my new most favoritest amp, SIT-3, and the speakers were... HORRIBLE. UNLISTENABLE. I play with speakers, and it sounded like too small airspace... humped up, bloaty, ugly mid-bass boom. I even pulled the ports from the speaker, played with a 4" OD port tube on the OUTSIDE of the enclosure to "increase airspace" (it actually helped)... but the speaker still sucked. That's the only way to put it, other than "Horrible" too. It Sucked Horribly.
But wait... Next week, I am heading to GR in Texas to help get my Line Arrays squared away. I figure it's also a great time to hear the SIT-3 on a pair of 95db, 7' tall, open baffle NX-Treme speakers. I've heard Danny's speakers with his stuff before (laid back), now I have shipped some of my stuff... KX-5 Twenty, QX-5 Twenty, SIT-3.
So, with no amp for the Clearwave... well I hook up the XA30.8 and... BINGO! HOLY COW!
The speakers came alive. The bass tightened right up. I still stuffed the port to help tighten a bit more and blended to Rythmik servo subs.
The Clearwave speakers needed an amp with CURRENT to boss those drivers around... the SIT-3 is just a bit too "friendly", but the friendliness of the SIT-3 is where the magic is, and that amp is good enough to build a speaker around, IMO.
Now, the Clearwave Loudspeaker Symphonia 1 are awesome... I want more Accuton, etc. Happy, Happy, Happy.
The thing is... the speakers were already awesome, but the SIT-3 to Speaker pairing was a horrible mismatch:
Even though, on paper, the SIT-3 should have been OK
What is interesting, my Wilson Audio Duette are great with the SIT-3. Also 4ohm, but more efficient and I suspect are just a much easier load than the Symphonia - overall. In fact, I own a Clio Pocket measuring setup, I am going to measure the Symphonia to get a better idea of what is going on - response and loading.
So, who to believe... how to know???
Unfortunately, I have found thru quite a bit of back and forth with the usual, very helpful, people - it's not quite so clear cut a proposition to "just make a call and they will confirm everything" with what are clearly "boutique" amps in the First Watt family.
I love the SIT-3 amp, but I'm sharing this so that others are very careful about matching all First Watt amps... just like they routinely advise - it's real. Be careful.
Of course, all of this is made more difficult by the inability to demo, because that's what really needs to happen with a FW amp, maybe more than any other amps.
So, next week I will hear the SIT-3 on those big NX-Treme. They SHOULD sound incredible with that amp. If they don't, I'm not sure how to move forward on SIT-5. I'm not up for 5 figure boutique amps that are finicky... and I hope that's not the case, because I love the sound. I have plenty of other amps that sound great, don't complain - XA30.8 and XA200.5.
I am hopeful the SIT-3 will be a good way to "test whether a speaker is a good fit for SIT-5." SIT-3 and SIT-5 are the only 2 FW amps I am interested in. I "think" (hope) SIT-5 is maybe the "most friendly" of all of them... the closest to a "Pass Product" and that I can own those and be very happy for a long time - but that is still a coin flip, for now.
The thing is... I won't get an "official guarantee" that's the way it will work either, so I've come here to compare notes with friends and commiserate.
Sorry for the rambling... hopefully this is of use to others as I suspect I am not the only one trying to figure out this particular riddle - and other First Watt amp riddles.
But this is a riddle worth figuring out... Nelson has given us a gift with this stuff.
He let his ears and heart make the decision, instead of a machine.
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Well, unfortunately the SIT-3 could not handle the GR-Research NX-Treme. They need more current.
Too bad I didn't have a pair of SIT-5 "handy", but I have interacted with "key people" and the experience is likely to be similar with SIT-5. That's part of the challenge... it's hard to cross fingers at that $ number to "test".
I assume what I experienced with SIT-3 is going to be somewhat relevant for SIT-5 speaker pairing, which is also part of the challenge because it has also been my experience that "definitive" Yes / No... will / won't work is tougher to come by with the First Watt stuff. I understand why after playing with the SIT-3 on various speakers now. The good stuff doesn't necessarily come easy and "knowing for sure" with several of these amps may mean you just have to Listen.
So, no SIT-5 for me for now, but I am certain they are wonderful with the right pairing. Perhaps I need to listen to Kent and try the XA25.
Have fun.
Too bad I didn't have a pair of SIT-5 "handy", but I have interacted with "key people" and the experience is likely to be similar with SIT-5. That's part of the challenge... it's hard to cross fingers at that $ number to "test".
I assume what I experienced with SIT-3 is going to be somewhat relevant for SIT-5 speaker pairing, which is also part of the challenge because it has also been my experience that "definitive" Yes / No... will / won't work is tougher to come by with the First Watt stuff. I understand why after playing with the SIT-3 on various speakers now. The good stuff doesn't necessarily come easy and "knowing for sure" with several of these amps may mean you just have to Listen.
So, no SIT-5 for me for now, but I am certain they are wonderful with the right pairing. Perhaps I need to listen to Kent and try the XA25.
Have fun.
Well, I have changed my mind.
I kept digging and talking to people, and we dug into certain things... and a nudge from another owner who has a pair as well. I took delivery of a pair of SIT-5, and I am so happy I did. They are incredible. I've heard nothing like them.
I posted this in another spot, and figured it might be helpful to share here, how I finally figured things had a good shot at working out - and they sure are, for now. We will see how it goes with the Line Arrays, but they are so good, I'll have to keep them, even so.
This may also be helpful to anyone considering First Watt SIT-3 / speaker pairing.
===============================================
Perhaps it will be helpful if I share this... I like Soft Dome Tweeters / Paper Cone woofers. I love great 2-way speakers. DIY with copper foil, custom crossovers, etc. And... at the other end of the spectrum and shipping this week - a pair of Epiphany Audio 20/21 Line Array speakers. 7' tall. 20x 4" Tang Band and 21x Neo 3 planar tweeters - in EACH speaker. Danny Richie had an NOS pair he never bothered to sell, until I bought them. They play to 35Hz, 8ohm, 96dB. The big question... will the SIT-5 handle them?... and that's been part of the story.
I already know that I would sell all other amps and keep the SIT-5, if I had to choose - and that isn't going to change. These things are unlike anything else I have ever heard, and I didn't know the sound they create even existed. That is not hyperbole. They are amazing amps and I am not sure what I would go to from this.
I have owned a few things... Ayre MX-R Twenty monos (that I traded for XA200.5), Ayre VX-5 Twenty (still own), still original owner of a beautiful Joule Electra VZN-80 OTL tube amp, Ayre KX-R Twenty preamp, SIT-3... I've had and have some good gear roll thru here.
The SIT-5 is unlike any other. Nelson mentions a "trick" every now and then for some circuit, of which I have no idea what any of it is. Well... I think maybe I have an idea of what the "trick" is, sonically with the SIT-5.
PERCUSSIVE, DYNAMIC, textured tonality midrange that POKES you with a leading edge. Surprisingly DYNAMIC, regardless of its power rating - I mean in terms of presentation relative to any other amp. Is it the output devices having so much overhead and the benefit of using devices at effortless power levels?
Take the leading edge of a guitar pluck and it POKES you... and then bleeds to absolutely incredible, textured midrange, that OH, By The Way... is 3 Dimensional. Holographic.... AND.... Transparent. That remind me of the transparency in my Ayre amps, but also more musical / holographic. They are notably more transparent than SIT-3, which maybe isn't remarkable as the SIT-3 is a different, and great thing. Because of the utter lack of grain, SIT-5 is perhaps more transparent than XA30.8. There is a sweetness that is reminiscent of XA200.5, and ZERO of the grit I would sometimes sense with XA30.8. This is also worth noting, when I got it, I thought the XA30.8 was "the best amp I've ever heard". All of this stuff is so good, it just keeps getting better.
I suppose I should now rather say, the SIT5 are the best amps I've ever heard... so far. I suppose Fiddlers will continue to fiddle, thankfully!
I think SIT-5 power is about on par with an XA30.8. Whatever it is, it is plenty for running my 2 ways. Note, I am running my KX-5 Twenty preamp at +6db with a gain resistor swap that I did to be able to run the SIT-3 to proper output given its 11.5dB gain. So, I think the SIT-5 input gain is playing like @25db, maybe 1dB lower than XA30.8... in terms of volume level? For what it's worth, with my "usual volume level on the preamp"... I have PLENTY of headroom for output. Very happy about that. The SIT-5 play plenty loud enough on my Wilson Audio Duette with custom crossovers. (I own the pair of Duette Danny Richie redid the crossover for on his YouTube. channel) They are INCREDIBLE.
I have learned very clearly that speaker pairing with First Watt is an important thing. For instance, the SIT-3 could not handle a speaker I recently picked up used - Clearwave Audio Symphonia 1. It's an Accuton / Scan-Speak Illuminator 3-way that is a tougher load. The XA30.8 handled it fine. The SIT-3 would also not run the GR-Research NX-Treme open baffle speakers. Large, mutli-driver speakers. 8ohm. 96dB.
So, just because SIT-3 says "4-8ohm", it's doesn't mean an 8ohm, 96dB speaker is going to work.
For SIT-3, stick to normal, 2-way speakers.
For SIT-5... looks like they may drive anything. Another owner is using them on Wilson Audio Alexia, which I think dip to 2ohm @80Hz. Considerations like that helped me decide on the SIT-5, as it is not a small amount of money. Another was the pair of speakers used in the HiFi Knights review of the SIT-5. In that review - he used a pair of Boenicke Audio W11 SE+ speaker. That helped me because he raved about the pairing. That speaker is similar in spec to the Clearwave Audio Symphonia - 86dB, drops to 2ohms, multi-driver, etc. So, I figured the SIT-5 would definitely have more DRIVE and that I should just "Go For It". And I am so glad I did.
I should also note, Kent at Pass Labs has been incredibly helpful to me for sorting thru what might work for what I'm trying to do (Line Arrays). We had a half hour conversation recently talking about SIT-5 and digging into "current". I don't know what the output current is for SIT-5, and would be curious to know? We talked in terms of transformer size between the SIT-5 monos and the XA30.8. SIT-5 are 400v each. XA30.8 is 1kV. So, 800 vs 1,000. I figured... "Let's go for it".
It was that last conversation with Kent was when I really decided to do it, and I'm grateful that Pass has people, just like him.
And you know what?... for as great as I think the SIT-5 are, I still love the SIT-3 too. It's just so gooood and so eaaaasy.... ahhhh.
All of these flavors are just so great, and this is turning out to be a lot of fun. Looking forward to building my first amp and will surely appreciate your help.
My room in progress... getting ready to lower the table, put SIT-5 on top shelf, and finish off treatments properly.
I AM HAVING FUN.
Jim McGovern
I kept digging and talking to people, and we dug into certain things... and a nudge from another owner who has a pair as well. I took delivery of a pair of SIT-5, and I am so happy I did. They are incredible. I've heard nothing like them.
I posted this in another spot, and figured it might be helpful to share here, how I finally figured things had a good shot at working out - and they sure are, for now. We will see how it goes with the Line Arrays, but they are so good, I'll have to keep them, even so.
This may also be helpful to anyone considering First Watt SIT-3 / speaker pairing.
===============================================
Perhaps it will be helpful if I share this... I like Soft Dome Tweeters / Paper Cone woofers. I love great 2-way speakers. DIY with copper foil, custom crossovers, etc. And... at the other end of the spectrum and shipping this week - a pair of Epiphany Audio 20/21 Line Array speakers. 7' tall. 20x 4" Tang Band and 21x Neo 3 planar tweeters - in EACH speaker. Danny Richie had an NOS pair he never bothered to sell, until I bought them. They play to 35Hz, 8ohm, 96dB. The big question... will the SIT-5 handle them?... and that's been part of the story.
I already know that I would sell all other amps and keep the SIT-5, if I had to choose - and that isn't going to change. These things are unlike anything else I have ever heard, and I didn't know the sound they create even existed. That is not hyperbole. They are amazing amps and I am not sure what I would go to from this.
I have owned a few things... Ayre MX-R Twenty monos (that I traded for XA200.5), Ayre VX-5 Twenty (still own), still original owner of a beautiful Joule Electra VZN-80 OTL tube amp, Ayre KX-R Twenty preamp, SIT-3... I've had and have some good gear roll thru here.
The SIT-5 is unlike any other. Nelson mentions a "trick" every now and then for some circuit, of which I have no idea what any of it is. Well... I think maybe I have an idea of what the "trick" is, sonically with the SIT-5.
PERCUSSIVE, DYNAMIC, textured tonality midrange that POKES you with a leading edge. Surprisingly DYNAMIC, regardless of its power rating - I mean in terms of presentation relative to any other amp. Is it the output devices having so much overhead and the benefit of using devices at effortless power levels?
Take the leading edge of a guitar pluck and it POKES you... and then bleeds to absolutely incredible, textured midrange, that OH, By The Way... is 3 Dimensional. Holographic.... AND.... Transparent. That remind me of the transparency in my Ayre amps, but also more musical / holographic. They are notably more transparent than SIT-3, which maybe isn't remarkable as the SIT-3 is a different, and great thing. Because of the utter lack of grain, SIT-5 is perhaps more transparent than XA30.8. There is a sweetness that is reminiscent of XA200.5, and ZERO of the grit I would sometimes sense with XA30.8. This is also worth noting, when I got it, I thought the XA30.8 was "the best amp I've ever heard". All of this stuff is so good, it just keeps getting better.
I suppose I should now rather say, the SIT5 are the best amps I've ever heard... so far. I suppose Fiddlers will continue to fiddle, thankfully!
I think SIT-5 power is about on par with an XA30.8. Whatever it is, it is plenty for running my 2 ways. Note, I am running my KX-5 Twenty preamp at +6db with a gain resistor swap that I did to be able to run the SIT-3 to proper output given its 11.5dB gain. So, I think the SIT-5 input gain is playing like @25db, maybe 1dB lower than XA30.8... in terms of volume level? For what it's worth, with my "usual volume level on the preamp"... I have PLENTY of headroom for output. Very happy about that. The SIT-5 play plenty loud enough on my Wilson Audio Duette with custom crossovers. (I own the pair of Duette Danny Richie redid the crossover for on his YouTube. channel) They are INCREDIBLE.
I have learned very clearly that speaker pairing with First Watt is an important thing. For instance, the SIT-3 could not handle a speaker I recently picked up used - Clearwave Audio Symphonia 1. It's an Accuton / Scan-Speak Illuminator 3-way that is a tougher load. The XA30.8 handled it fine. The SIT-3 would also not run the GR-Research NX-Treme open baffle speakers. Large, mutli-driver speakers. 8ohm. 96dB.
So, just because SIT-3 says "4-8ohm", it's doesn't mean an 8ohm, 96dB speaker is going to work.
For SIT-3, stick to normal, 2-way speakers.
For SIT-5... looks like they may drive anything. Another owner is using them on Wilson Audio Alexia, which I think dip to 2ohm @80Hz. Considerations like that helped me decide on the SIT-5, as it is not a small amount of money. Another was the pair of speakers used in the HiFi Knights review of the SIT-5. In that review - he used a pair of Boenicke Audio W11 SE+ speaker. That helped me because he raved about the pairing. That speaker is similar in spec to the Clearwave Audio Symphonia - 86dB, drops to 2ohms, multi-driver, etc. So, I figured the SIT-5 would definitely have more DRIVE and that I should just "Go For It". And I am so glad I did.
I should also note, Kent at Pass Labs has been incredibly helpful to me for sorting thru what might work for what I'm trying to do (Line Arrays). We had a half hour conversation recently talking about SIT-5 and digging into "current". I don't know what the output current is for SIT-5, and would be curious to know? We talked in terms of transformer size between the SIT-5 monos and the XA30.8. SIT-5 are 400v each. XA30.8 is 1kV. So, 800 vs 1,000. I figured... "Let's go for it".
It was that last conversation with Kent was when I really decided to do it, and I'm grateful that Pass has people, just like him.
And you know what?... for as great as I think the SIT-5 are, I still love the SIT-3 too. It's just so gooood and so eaaaasy.... ahhhh.
All of these flavors are just so great, and this is turning out to be a lot of fun. Looking forward to building my first amp and will surely appreciate your help.
My room in progress... getting ready to lower the table, put SIT-5 on top shelf, and finish off treatments properly.
I AM HAVING FUN.
Jim McGovern
I built the Pass designed DIY 'single ended' ancient Sony 2SK60 VFET amp @ 10 watts @ 8 ohms. It is one of his back of the napkin designs as opposed to the intensive designing and re-designing of the First Watt koans with his listening panels.
I have no idea what possessed me to go through the process of building it (never built an amp before), but it worked, and being a current amp, I also built his FE2022 small 20db front end card for it for voltage gain. I have been listening to it for a couple of years now and it is one of my favorites for the big 75 inch ribbons. I put it in an honorific old Sony TA4650 chassis and used one of those adjustable enterprise regulated linear power supplies from the day that used to cost thousands of dollars but can be bought on ebay in good working condition for 50 to 150 bucks now.
It has a lot of the characteristics you describe. A surprise is that driving the ribbon panel full range with it direct crossover-less @3.6 ohms @ 88db, it produces satisfying levels with ultra spooky sound.
I have no idea what possessed me to go through the process of building it (never built an amp before), but it worked, and being a current amp, I also built his FE2022 small 20db front end card for it for voltage gain. I have been listening to it for a couple of years now and it is one of my favorites for the big 75 inch ribbons. I put it in an honorific old Sony TA4650 chassis and used one of those adjustable enterprise regulated linear power supplies from the day that used to cost thousands of dollars but can be bought on ebay in good working condition for 50 to 150 bucks now.
It has a lot of the characteristics you describe. A surprise is that driving the ribbon panel full range with it direct crossover-less @3.6 ohms @ 88db, it produces satisfying levels with ultra spooky sound.
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Morning gentlemen. I’d like to start by saying that I’ve been using this site for years as a valuable source of information. Many here are very knowledgeable and have quite impressive systems. A bit intimidating actually!
A quick history about my journey. Had the same solid state system for 23 years, Rotel and B&w speakers. With the encouragement of a friend, I decided to go the tube route and change my entire system. Did a push pull Synthesis amp with Zu speakers. For he first time experienced ear fatigue. Frustrated, I sold them both. Purchased the Aric Audio 300b and Audio Note e/lx speakers. Wasn’t completely satisfied with the sound. A lot I liked but I want to be thrilled I guess. Just sold the speakers and purchased much more efficient Volti’s, which really do address the things I wanted, more dynamic, balanced from top to bottom and the amp doesn’t struggle to push them. Effortless sound I suppose.
All this brings me here now. I love the 300b but since I’m sort of a newbie to this endeavor, I’m not sure what I’m missing or left out there sound wise. What I’m looking for, which I had with my ss Rotel and Synthesis push pull, is that oomph and authority. I feel as if the bass gets a little loose at higher volumes with the 300b. The Volti’s have a 15 inch woofer. I like the tube sound, but like other aspects of the solid state sound. Which brought me to Pass and first watt.
Now I’ve been going back and forth endlessly between the xa-25, Sit-4 and Sit-5. I was going xa-25 but the neutrality is a concern. What I’ve discovered moving “up” in audio is that I don’t like listening to a lot of my old 70’s bad recordings as much anymore. Not sure the xa-25 is going to help that. Perhaps make that worse?
Now both the 4 and 5 seem very appealing. My amp now is 9 watts or 18 in parallel. I fear the Sit-4 will be too similar in control and oomph. I fear the Sit-5 may be too much power for the Volti Lucera at 99db, probably really 97db.
Any suggestions or advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance guys.
A quick history about my journey. Had the same solid state system for 23 years, Rotel and B&w speakers. With the encouragement of a friend, I decided to go the tube route and change my entire system. Did a push pull Synthesis amp with Zu speakers. For he first time experienced ear fatigue. Frustrated, I sold them both. Purchased the Aric Audio 300b and Audio Note e/lx speakers. Wasn’t completely satisfied with the sound. A lot I liked but I want to be thrilled I guess. Just sold the speakers and purchased much more efficient Volti’s, which really do address the things I wanted, more dynamic, balanced from top to bottom and the amp doesn’t struggle to push them. Effortless sound I suppose.
All this brings me here now. I love the 300b but since I’m sort of a newbie to this endeavor, I’m not sure what I’m missing or left out there sound wise. What I’m looking for, which I had with my ss Rotel and Synthesis push pull, is that oomph and authority. I feel as if the bass gets a little loose at higher volumes with the 300b. The Volti’s have a 15 inch woofer. I like the tube sound, but like other aspects of the solid state sound. Which brought me to Pass and first watt.
Now I’ve been going back and forth endlessly between the xa-25, Sit-4 and Sit-5. I was going xa-25 but the neutrality is a concern. What I’ve discovered moving “up” in audio is that I don’t like listening to a lot of my old 70’s bad recordings as much anymore. Not sure the xa-25 is going to help that. Perhaps make that worse?
Now both the 4 and 5 seem very appealing. My amp now is 9 watts or 18 in parallel. I fear the Sit-4 will be too similar in control and oomph. I fear the Sit-5 may be too much power for the Volti Lucera at 99db, probably really 97db.
Any suggestions or advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance guys.
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The SIT 3 should be an amp that you look at as it has the most enchanting sound. It worked extremely well with my PBN 2!5 speakers that had dual 15" woofers.
Hi Earthbound
FWIW, I don't think you need to be concerned about the SIT-5 having "too much power for the Volti Lucera". I would've thought the power figures quoted are somewhere about ideal - a bit of extra headroom is rarely a problem in itself.
Now, my problem is somewhat different and I'd really appreciate any input. My AvantGarde Omega Duo speakers are something like 107dB efficiency and I understand the impedance is 16 Ohms. I've been running them for years with Audion parallel single ended 300b monoblocks.
Recently I tried my Passlabs XA30.5 in the system instead of the Audions and I've been amazed that I prefer the Passlabs - warmer, richer mids and huge soundstage as well as being smoother and more forgiving with less then audiophile recording but giving nothing away in terms of frequency extension, dynamics etc. In fact the XA30.5 sound more like a valve amp than I would've ever expected.
Because monoblocks work better physically with my system configuration, I decide to look at options, including the SIT-5. In another system I have an old Sony V-fet power amp TA-8550 and appreciate the idea of a modern version of similar type of amplification device. The opinions I've read online suggest FW SIT amps are likely to give significant further improvement over the Passlabs XA30.5
But, the power figures of the SIT-4 suggests it might be a better match with my very efficient, high-impedance speakers. I've found quite convincing reviews that loved the SIT-1 with the AvantGardes.
I can only guess at the power levels of the SIT-4 vs the SIT-5 into 16 Ohm speakers, but perhaps the SIT-5 design brief is to improve performance into lower impedance speakers and the power improvement might not be there with my 16 Ohm speakers? I could be paying twice as much for less performance just to get monoblocks?
Unfortunately my location precludes trying before buying - hence I'm keen to do as much homework as possible and seek others' knowledgeable opinions before committing.
Any information/advice gratefully received.
FWIW, I don't think you need to be concerned about the SIT-5 having "too much power for the Volti Lucera". I would've thought the power figures quoted are somewhere about ideal - a bit of extra headroom is rarely a problem in itself.
Now, my problem is somewhat different and I'd really appreciate any input. My AvantGarde Omega Duo speakers are something like 107dB efficiency and I understand the impedance is 16 Ohms. I've been running them for years with Audion parallel single ended 300b monoblocks.
Recently I tried my Passlabs XA30.5 in the system instead of the Audions and I've been amazed that I prefer the Passlabs - warmer, richer mids and huge soundstage as well as being smoother and more forgiving with less then audiophile recording but giving nothing away in terms of frequency extension, dynamics etc. In fact the XA30.5 sound more like a valve amp than I would've ever expected.
Because monoblocks work better physically with my system configuration, I decide to look at options, including the SIT-5. In another system I have an old Sony V-fet power amp TA-8550 and appreciate the idea of a modern version of similar type of amplification device. The opinions I've read online suggest FW SIT amps are likely to give significant further improvement over the Passlabs XA30.5
But, the power figures of the SIT-4 suggests it might be a better match with my very efficient, high-impedance speakers. I've found quite convincing reviews that loved the SIT-1 with the AvantGardes.
I can only guess at the power levels of the SIT-4 vs the SIT-5 into 16 Ohm speakers, but perhaps the SIT-5 design brief is to improve performance into lower impedance speakers and the power improvement might not be there with my 16 Ohm speakers? I could be paying twice as much for less performance just to get monoblocks?
Unfortunately my location precludes trying before buying - hence I'm keen to do as much homework as possible and seek others' knowledgeable opinions before committing.
Any information/advice gratefully received.
Welcome to the I don’t know what to do club Tony. Some enjoy the process of getting gear and sampling the various options. I am not one of them. I’d really like to find the right combination and be done with it. I’m sick of selling gear and dealing with low ballers and scammers. Causes me anxiety. As a matter of fact, I’m selling speakers and have to go through PayPal and I’m loading the app on my phone now. I will be delivery them and need to secure payment and transfer funds while I’m on the road. Anyway, I’m sure all 3 options I’m looking at will be excellent.
Could 2 be used as mono
Could 2 be used as mono blocks? I ask because somewhere in this thread someone said the Sit-3 wasn’t very good at pushing their 96db, 8 ohm speakers very well, which is almost the exact figures of my speakers. Please don’t quote me since my memory isn’t as reliable as it used to be. Lol
People have commented that ceramic drivers, in spite of nominal high efficiency ratings, require more current to sound best i.e. the sound locks in when higher current amps are used. This seems to have something to do with the variable 'experience' that audiophiles have with ceramic driver speakers and different amplifiers aka something that should work with sensitivity specs don't do so well.
SIT 5 from topography would be better in that regard (better burst current with the massive MOSFET and SIT)
SIT 5 from topography would be better in that regard (better burst current with the massive MOSFET and SIT)
If you look at the speakers above, the issue was with large, multi-driver speakers. We figured, even though the speaker specs show it as easy to drive, putting a bunch of drivers together mean they are going to need some current.
So, I asked Nelson about the passage in the SIT-3 manual (read the FW manuals, for sure) where he mentions paralleling 2 channels for more current, and I asked him to confirm that.
Yep... you can turn the SIT-3 into monoblocks.
If you read the Stereophile review of the SIT-3, you'll see the reviewer had an issue with it running his 16ohm speakers. That was not a surprise to Nelson. A pair of resistors on the speakers put them at a load the SIT-3 liked much better, and the reviewer loved the amp.
I mention that because it would definitely be a good idea to reach out to Kent at Pass, and maybe even Nelson... ask about the 16ohm thing.
Also, if you read the manuals for the SIT-4 and SIT-5, you'll find commentary like this (from SIT-5 manual):
This may help you:
Kent English at Pass, who will probably answer the phone when you call, uses an XA25 at home. His wife is a musician and he says she says that one sounds the best. You should talk to him about the XA25.
Also, when I visited GR-Research recently, these were there... you may find a conversation with Danny Richie to be interesting. I think he knows Greg at Volti well and may be able to offer you some good advice about your speaker, in general.
I've seen the corrected response of this one:
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