ET3se

Mar 28, 2012
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#21
Thanks for all the explanations gents. Another question, possibly related, I hope, to the subject of this thread, which I've always wondered about with my CJ gear. I've had 3 CJ preamps over the years, my current one being the wonderful Classic SE. About the only thing I haven't "loved" about all three is the volume control being so sensitive, as I mentioned in an eariler post in this thread. What I mean is that the loudest position I ever get to is at about 9 o'clock -- leaving about 270 degrees of the turn unused. The upshot of this narrow range is that the minutest turn seems to raise or lower the volume rather too much for my allegedly "fine" motor skills, making it hard to get that "just right" setting for any given CD. I tend to think that CJ does things for a reason, and that this is by design, not by happenstance. But can anybody tell me what the advantage, if any, would be from a sonic standpoint on having so much of the volume dialed in at the very start of the range? I thought it might be related to the hiss issue, but apparently not.
 

LL21

Active Member
Dec 26, 2010
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#22
Thanks for all the explanations gents. Another question, possibly related, I hope, to the subject of this thread, which I've always wondered about with my CJ gear. I've had 3 CJ preamps over the years, my current one being the wonderful Classic SE. About the only thing I haven't "loved" about all three is the volume control being so sensitive, as I mentioned in an eariler post in this thread. What I mean is that the loudest position I ever get to is at about 9 o'clock -- leaving about 270 degrees of the turn unused. The upshot of this narrow range is that the minutest turn seems to raise or lower the volume rather too much for my allegedly "fine" motor skills, making it hard to get that "just right" setting for any given CD. I tend to think that CJ does things for a reason, and that this is by design, not by happenstance. But can anybody tell me what the advantage, if any, would be from a sonic standpoint on having so much of the volume dialed in at the very start of the range? I thought it might be related to the hiss issue, but apparently not.
Which amp do you use? I believe many CJ amps have 16db gain...which works nicely with a 25db gain CJ preamp. Perhaps if your current amp has higher gain, that is what is minimizing your 'dial use' on your preamp? Just a non-techie guess...
 
Mar 28, 2012
40
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0
#23
Which amp do you use? I believe many CJ amps have 16db gain...which works nicely with a 25db gain CJ preamp. Perhaps if your current amp has higher gain, that is what is minimizing your 'dial use' on your preamp? Just a non-techie guess...
I have the CJ 2550 power amp. Not sure what the gain is on it.
 

LL21

Active Member
Dec 26, 2010
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#24

thedudeabides

Active Member
Jan 16, 2011
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Alto, NM
#25
Volume steps should be 0.7 db each so I'm confused about the "sensitivity" issue.

Also, you can add a resistor to the pre out to attenuate the output.

Ideally, your typical volume setting should be somewhat near "unity gain". Call CJ to find out what that is and ask for their recommendations.
 

thedudeabides

Active Member
Jan 16, 2011
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Alto, NM
#26
This weekend I just took home a CJ ET-3 SE for a home demo tryout. The big problem I had w/it was the high level of hiss I was getting through my Aerial 6's. No problem w/my Audio Research Sp16. Could it be just a bad tube??
In all likelihood, yes.

And tube choice is quite important. Has a substantial impact on sound.
 
May 30, 2010
14,115
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Portugal
#27
Which amp do you use? I believe many CJ amps have 16db gain...which works nicely with a 25db gain CJ preamp. Perhaps if your current amp has higher gain, that is what is minimizing your 'dial use' on your preamp? Just a non-techie guess...
No, CJ amps have much higher gain. The CJ 2550 has 27 dB gain (2V sensitivity for 250W at 8 ohm) . It is a moderate gain, typical of many modern amplifiers. The worst I have seen and still own is the Premier 350 - 33.6 dB gain, hiss was a problem with several cj tube preamplifiers and sensitive speakers.

And yes, most cj tube preamplfiiers had high gain. Coupled with a source having high output you would never go much over the 9 position. The gain is mainly due to the type of tube they use in the amplifying stage, as they are feedback free.

To get the gain in dB of an amplifier knowing the sensitivity for full power at 8 ohm you need a calculator with decimal logarithm function. Then gain = 20 x log (square root (full power_in_W x 8 ) / sensitivity_in_V ) dB.
 

LL21

Active Member
Dec 26, 2010
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#28
No, CJ amps have much higher gain. The CJ 2550 has 27 dB gain (2V sensitivity for 250W at 8 ohm) . It is a moderate gain, typical of many modern amplifiers. The worst I have seen and still own is the Premier 350 - 33.6 dB gain, hiss was a problem with several cj tube preamplifiers and sensitive speakers.

And yes, most cj tube preamplfiiers had high gain. Coupled with a source having high output you would never go much over the 9 position. The gain is mainly due to the type of tube they use in the amplifying stage, as they are feedback free.

To get the gain in dB of an amplifier knowing the sensitivity for full power at 8 ohm you need a calculator with decimal logarithm function. Then gain = 20 x log (square root (full power_in_W x 8 ) / sensitivity_in_V ) dB.
wow...thanks...for some reason i thought lower...apparently wrong. Thanks for clarifying. Now here's another question...why? I recall (i think correctly this time!) that some manufacturers have high gain in pre or amp...and then low in the other corresponding piece of equipment...why high gain in both?
 
May 30, 2010
14,115
78
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Portugal
#29
wow...thanks...for some reason i thought lower...apparently wrong. Thanks for clarifying. Now here's another question...why? I recall (i think correctly this time!) that some manufacturers have high gain in pre or amp...and then low in the other corresponding piece of equipment...why high gain in both?
Gain topologies have sound signatures, everything is a compromise, manufacturers make their choices using existing devices.

A commonly refereed explanation for the excessive gain in some audio equipment is that many ignorant people in demos and auditions want to use the same physical position or indication of the volume control and naturally pick the loudest as being better most of the time.
 

class a

New Member
Jul 11, 2011
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#30
About a year ago I tried a ET3 SE at home and it did not go well. The tube was bad and I didn't invert my speaker wires(stupid me). Well about a month ago I gave it a second chance. This time good tube and speakers wired properly, what a difference. Vocals smooth and detailed, excellent soundstage, wide and deep. Also low volume listening is quite detailed. Currently I have the standard CJ EH6922 tube which is quite nice but I'm wondering what other tubes other CJ owners enjoy. Also Also the ET3 SE has the upgraded Caps is it true that it will take 300-500 hours for the preamp to totally break in??:b
 

Sunnyboy1956

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Feb 22, 2014
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New Delhi, India
#31
About a year ago I tried a ET3 SE at home and it did not go well. The tube was bad and I didn't invert my speaker wires(stupid me). Well about a month ago I gave it a second chance. This time good tube and speakers wired properly, what a difference. Vocals smooth and detailed, excellent soundstage, wide and deep. Also low volume listening is quite detailed. Currently I have the standard CJ EH6922 tube which is quite nice but I'm wondering what other tubes other CJ owners enjoy. Also Also the ET3 SE has the upgraded Caps is it true that it will take 300-500 hours for the preamp to totally break in??:b
I have experimented with a variety of NOS 6922s in my GAT. The best by far though expensive are the Telefunken Cca. The CJ supplied EH are pretty ordinary, IME, compared to any half decent NOS variant.
If you have the new Teflon caps, 500 hrs is a reasonable breakin period.
Pradeep
 

LL21

Active Member
Dec 26, 2010
10,572
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#32
About a year ago I tried a ET3 SE at home and it did not go well. The tube was bad and I didn't invert my speaker wires(stupid me). Well about a month ago I gave it a second chance. This time good tube and speakers wired properly, what a difference. Vocals smooth and detailed, excellent soundstage, wide and deep. Also low volume listening is quite detailed. Currently I have the standard CJ EH6922 tube which is quite nice but I'm wondering what other tubes other CJ owners enjoy. Also Also the ET3 SE has the upgraded Caps is it true that it will take 300-500 hours for the preamp to totally break in??:b
I have experimented with a variety of NOS 6922s in my GAT. The best by far though expensive are the Telefunken Cca. The CJ supplied EH are pretty ordinary, IME, compared to any half decent NOS variant.
If you have the new Teflon caps, 500 hrs is a reasonable breakin period.
Pradeep
Class a,

FWIW, Agree with Pradeep's answer (above) to you questions. I also like Mullard 6922s but they MUST (imho) be accompanied by EAT tube dampers. To date, they have been incredibly quiet, 'nearly' as mellifluous as the Telefunkens but not quite as detailed. And a hair fuller.

I am perfectly happy with either...the key is 'quiet'...for some reason the GAT has had a tendency to have tubes go noisy faster than i would have hoped. But with these two types, so far so good.

Glad to see you gave the ET3 SE a second chance...enjoy!
 

class a

New Member
Jul 11, 2011
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#33
Class a,

FWIW, Agree with Pradeep's answer (above) to you questions. I also like Mullard 6922s but they MUST (imho) be accompanied by EAT tube dampers. To date, they have been incredibly quiet, 'nearly' as mellifluous as the Telefunkens but not quite as detailed. And a hair fuller.

I am perfectly happy with either...the key is 'quiet'...for some reason the GAT has had a tendency to have tubes go noisy faster than i would have hoped. But with these two types, so far so good.

Glad to see you gave the ET3 SE a second chance...enjoy!
Thanks to both for the advice. As for the Mullards are we talking NOS or the current one's?? What is the advantage of the EAT tube damper over other brands. Also someone mentioned to me Gold Lion 6922's any good?? Currently w/the stock tube this is the best sounding preamp I've ever owned. The LP's have stepped up to another sonic level and my CD's have a really nice analog sound. The digital harshness is gone. I'm happy that I gave CJ a second demo.
 

LL21

Active Member
Dec 26, 2010
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#34
Thanks to both for the advice. As for the Mullards are we talking NOS or the current one's?? What is the advantage of the EAT tube damper over other brands. Also someone mentioned to me Gold Lion 6922's any good?? Currently w/the stock tube this is the best sounding preamp I've ever owned. The LP's have stepped up to another sonic level and my CD's have a really nice analog sound. The digital harshness is gone. I'm happy that I gave CJ a second demo.
Hi Class a,

I cannot say much about Gold Lions since i've not heard them. REgarding tube dampers, i have compared the original CJ ones, with Brass ones with EAT Tube dampers...that's it. And somehow, i was suprised to find that the Mullards i found (very quiet, very powerful) were a bit hard sounding...shocking really. In fact, though it seemed like something i would try to live with, i found myself switching tracks/CDs endlessly. Put in the EAT Tube dampers, and even though the sound was very quiet, powerful and still not as 'mellifluous' as an Amperex, i found that the EAT seemed to make it sound more refined like a Telefunken and that rough/hardness went away. i was shocked to find that instead of going back to Amperexes, I ended up keeping the Mullards in with EAT tube dampers.
 

class a

New Member
Jul 11, 2011
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#35
Hi Class a,

I cannot say much about Gold Lions since i've not heard them. REgarding tube dampers, i have compared the original CJ ones, with Brass ones with EAT Tube dampers...that's it. And somehow, i was suprised to find that the Mullards i found (very quiet, very powerful) were a bit hard sounding...shocking really. In fact, though it seemed like something i would try to live with, i found myself switching tracks/CDs endlessly. Put in the EAT Tube dampers, and even though the sound was very quiet, powerful and still not as 'mellifluous' as an Amperex, i found that the EAT seemed to make it sound more refined like a Telefunken and that rough/hardness went away. i was shocked to find that instead of going back to Amperexes, I ended up keeping the Mullards in with EAT tube dampers.
The tube dampers seem interesting. Anywhere specific that you purchase your tubes. I also observed that Music Direct was selling an EAT 6922 tube w/damper. They claim 10,000 hrs about same life as the original Soviet 6h30's. Any opinion on the EAT 6922.:)
 
Feb 14, 2016
171
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Sydney, Australia
#36
The tube dampers seem interesting. Anywhere specific that you purchase your tubes. I also observed that Music Direct was selling an EAT 6922 tube w/damper. They claim 10,000 hrs about same life as the original Soviet 6h30's. Any opinion on the EAT 6922.:)
I put the EAT 6922 in the CJ ET3 I owned to very good effect. I didn't try any others - just these. Bought them off Galen Carol Audio in Tx: https://www.gcaudio.com/cgi-bin/store/showProduct.cgi?id=502.

I have had NOS Mullard boxplate 12AX7A / CV4004 / M8137 in other amps, and like them also (reminds me I have a few of these lying around - must dig them out ;)). Hard to go wrong really with any of these choices. More a matter of flavour. You do get the tube damper with the EAT's.

Galen advised me he had had some failures with the EAT's, but that was 5 or so years ago now, so I am sure QC is sorted.
 

thedudeabides

Active Member
Jan 16, 2011
1,181
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#37
Tubes. Try the EAT ECC88 (same as the 6922). Pricey but spectacular IMHO. I thought the stock tube in my ET5 was quite boring. Some really like the Telefunken. Many choices. Kinda like choosing your favorite ice cream flavor.

Teflon cap break in required? Yes and audible IMHO. Recommend 300 as a minimum based on my experience with the ET5.

Suggest you use the stock tube for break in and then install the EAT.

Good luck and have fun.
 

class a

New Member
Jul 11, 2011
70
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0
#38
Tubes. Try the EAT ECC88 (same as the 6922). Pricey but spectacular IMHO. I thought the stock tube in my ET5 was quite boring. Some really like the Telefunken. Many choices. Kinda like choosing your favorite ice cream flavor.

Teflon cap break in required? Yes and audible IMHO. Recommend 300 as a minimum based on my experience with the ET5.

Suggest you use the stock tube for break in and then install the EAT.

Good luck and have fun.
My dealer suggested that I play the preamp for about a month or so before considering different tubes. Are you using the ECC88? The nice thing about the CJ is it takes just one tube which makes it easier to buy the better tubes and you do't have to worry about matching pairs.
 

thedudeabides

Active Member
Jan 16, 2011
1,181
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Alto, NM
#39
I agree with your dealer as long as it gets you to 300 to 400 hours on the caps. Stopping / playing (charging / discharging) is the best way to burn in the caps.

EAT ECC88 tube. Yes I am. This is my second. And needing only one tube makes the "rolling" process pretty easy. And as others have mentioned, the Telefuken Cca NOS is a very nice sounding valve. Can provide dealer name to buy even though he will not warranty the tube and is an arrogant, pompous jerk. That's what I listened to for the past 18 months before switching back to the EAT.
 
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LL21

Active Member
Dec 26, 2010
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#40
The tube dampers seem interesting. Anywhere specific that you purchase your tubes. I also observed that Music Direct was selling an EAT 6922 tube w/damper. They claim 10,000 hrs about same life as the original Soviet 6h30's. Any opinion on the EAT 6922.:)
Hi...have not tried but it seems a few have and liked them. The tube itself is not inexpensive but the tube damper was 19 bucks each last time i bought them. Well worth it imho.
 

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