Entreq Tellus grounding

Keith is a lovely guy, truth be told. I keep wanting to buy his Liszts but never quite get around to it (lack of cash/space/GF approval prob why).
If you think Blizz v the world is bad, you need to go back to the Dog Days of 1-2 yrs ago, when Keith was like the Richard Dawkins/Simon Singh of the hifi world, on a mission to save the world of a'fools from all things foo. Our personal nadir was my specially addressed video, luckily it couldn't really get any worse.
Of course, when I listen again to the Liszts and am told in no uncertain terms that Class AB Bakoons CANNOT ON PRINCIPLE sound better than the ideally-measuring Class D Molas, and I must be hearing things, then is there any mystery that stuff which doesn't measure like the Mooks gets even shorter shrift?
keith doesn't do himself any favours w/his online priggishness, it's not really him, he's a delightful host, but the curse of Social Media strikes in so many ways.
 
Hmm, his spelling is as atrocious as yr's :p!
 
For anyone interested, I had some free time yesterday and decided to create two comparison files with my workstation (24 bit but only at 48 KHz since my internet connection is Australian which means glorified dial-up speed on a good day). One of the two files is a "without Entreq connected" file and the other is a "with Entreq connected" file (they are both named so this is not a "blind" comparison). What I did was make an analogue to digital transcription of a short excerpt (90 seconds so as to respect copyright and also this being of an educational nature) from an ORG 45 RPM reissue (Bernie Grundman mastered) of London (Decca) CS6329 - Brahms Piano Concerto No. 1. Though piano is a misnomer in this particular case as I have just done the first 90 seconds which includes the explosive fortissimo introduction followed a short, quiet lyrical few bars. So the piano does not feature in the excerpt. I purposely did this as I think given the very small excerpts I was forced to do, this showcases the differences quite well.

The source disk is extremely revealing (as is anything done by Bernie). Unfortunately I do not own the sort of gear most people have here but it is still nonetheless competent enough to demonstrate audibly the difference with Entreq connected (I am using a Project RPM 9.1 with Ortofon Rondo Bronze going through a DIY (me!) modified Heed Quester with self-built SLA based power supply. Cabling is Wireworld Eclipse 6 to the workstation.

The file with Entreq connected was made with only one difference in the procedure compared to the one with it not connected. Yes, you guessed it, I connected my entry-level Entreq Minimus Copper box and the Eartha Konstantin RCA cable to a spare analogue RCA connector on the workstation (the connector itself was an un-used one on one of the soundcards and obviously this shares a common ground with the whole workstation - chassis, everything). Other than that, both files were made using 100% identical equipment, within two days of each other, at exactly the same temperature an humidity settings, same time of night, with the same equipment warm-up period and procedure, etc. So the only thing I changed was to connect the Entreq to the spare RCA jack. That is the ONLY difference between the two excerpts.

Now I will tell you what I hear between these two files. It is actually exactly the same as the differences I hear when I have to dither a 24 bit file to 16 bit. Obviously this is in relative terms since both excerpts are 24 bit captures, but you get the point in essence (hopefully). In relative terms then, what I hear is that the massed violins in the "unconnected" file sound a little bit more harsh and steely (as does the whole excerpt, but I am trying to make specific mentions for less experienced classical listeners to hear). I also hear the violin section sounding more like a clump of violins as opposed to rows of individual players at individual desks. These two things are always the biggest things I notice when going from 24 bit to 16 bit even with the very best, super-duper modern algorithms available. It is also one of the biggest things I notice when attending a live orchestral concert versus listening to reproduced sound. And it is what I am noticing here two, even though all I have done is connect a wooden Entreq box with the associated cable to the workstation performing the analogue to digital conversion and the subsequent capture of the data stream - and nothing more.

You will also hear a little more overall transparency to the sound and a little more air (though essentially I regard air as nothing more than enhanced transparency at very high frequencies). In broad terms, the file with Entreq connected simply sounds more transparent, with less veil and it sounds more effortless and relaxed.

Anyway, I will leave you to make up your minds as to whether you hear any differences or not or whether you think what you hear is imagined, worthwhile, pointless, etc.

Please note: This post is put here is a subjective one. I know there will be trolls at other websites who will try to do impossibly fruitless things like null the files out or insist on blind ABX tests. Nulling won't work - they are taken from a mechanical analogue source so there is no way to even align the two files sample to sample in order to null them out. This is purely a subjective comparison and the only aspect of it all that interests me. If you want to participate on a purely objective basis then please take it to the measurements forum and have a field day over there without me :)

Although I was already "sold" on the Entreq brand this the first time I set myself up for a direct A/B comparison without having to actually worry about the cables and wasting time connecting and disconnecting. I can swap from A to B in a second without leaving the comfort of my seat. And actually, the differences are exactly what I heard when I connected my boxes up for the first time in a normal listening situation. It was such a pleasure. It was like getting a few extra bits out of the CD format that never existed!

Anyway, since most of you people own exceptionally high calibre equipment, I will be curious to see how stark the differences are between the two files. I get the feeling that if I can hear it on a modest $6,000 headphone based system in my loungeroom, then you guys with dCS stuff (or anything above mass market mid-fi) should really hear a difference. Or maybe that gear is so good it actually makes less difference or even no difference to you at all. I am curious. And don't worry, I won't bite if you hear nothing. I just don't want people to get into technical based arguments - there is another sub-forum for all of that.

Bear in mind too that this comparison only involves a single entry level Entreq box costing less than $500. And the cable is only a few hundred dollars. This is basically the entry point to Entreq - as everyone who has participated in this thread is well aware, the higher echelon Entreq stuff blows the entry level stuff into the weeds, though obviously matching and synergy are critical too. Not only that, this single box and cable was "grounding" an entire workstation - not just a single basic hi-fi source component, amplifier or speakers.

So it might be fair to say what you hear is the "minimum" result you would get from Entreq, however as I intimated before, it is quite possible that as the gear used goes up the quality scale (i.e beyond the modest gear that I own), with better power supplies, filtering, design, component quality, etc, then the differences might be less apparent or may not even exist to many ears. This is another reason I am hoping people with high quality gear and well-developed listening skills will listen to these and see if they can hear any difference or not. Yes, I realise there is a significant difference between connecting the gear to your own system versus listening to a pre-prepared Entreq "enhanced" file, but I still remain curious as to whether high end gear makes the difference less or more obvious.

https://www.sendspace.com/file/cetdtp
 
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Thank you FF for such an interesting post.
The improvements you heard tally with my own experiences of Entreq grounding.
The most recent addition of the Poseidon for amplifier negative speaker terminal grounding and the amp input terminal grounding (Vitus SIA 025) has been particularly beneficial. The words are more intelligible and the instrumental separation is further improved without any hardness or artificiality to the sounds.So with my DCS Puccini/Scarlatti clock and YG Kipod Signature passive speakers the Entreq improvements are in my experience brought out very clearly.
 
So with my DCS Puccini/Scarlatti clock and YG Kipod Signature passive speakers the Entreq improvements are in my experience brought out very clearly.

And so even the very equipment on the planet benefits. Entreq is a fickle product. It does not care if it is connected to a $10,000 system or a $200,000 one. And it just goes to show that even with dCS (which I honestly believe achieves as much digital perfection as is practically possible when translating digital theory to physical boxes) and with the external clock, there are still ways to further improve things. Actually, perhaps I should not be that surprised. With the dCS and the Scarlatti, the noise floor is going to be so ridiculously benign to begin with that the slightest imperfections would probably stand out like a swatted fly on an expensive crystal ornament :D
 
Entreq

Hello Treqies,

I auditioned the Silver Tellus and Olympus minimus with various cables covering varying parts of their range.

I started off grounding the Golden Gate with the Olympus minimus and then the Analog Domain integrated. I played music for the rest of the day and then over the weekend before pulling it all out on Sunday afternoon. I can confirm that it brought a sense of musical flow above all, a slight reduction in hash / increased purity of voice, but most importantly a bit more body and harmonics on strings. I then tried it out on my tonearm and phonostage with great results also. Gets a thumbs up from me.
 
Welcome to the club Bill!
You list all the benefits I have experienced in my system.
My last Entreq addition was the Poseidon with Apollo ground cables to the amp input (Vitus SIA 025) and its negative speaker terminals (YG Kipod Signature passive speakers).
Very effective and well worth trying.
 
Hello Treqies,

I auditioned the Silver Tellus and Olympus minimus with various cables covering varying parts of their range.

I started off grounding the Golden Gate with the Olympus minimus and then the Analog Domain integrated. I played music for the rest of the day and then over the weekend before pulling it all out on Sunday afternoon. I can confirm that it brought a sense of musical flow above all, a slight reduction in hash / increased purity of voice, but most importantly a bit more body and harmonics on strings. I then tried it out on my tonearm and phonostage with great results also. Gets a thumbs up from me.

Congrats!
 
I sort of feel like I am missing out here as I seem to be the only person not getting good results from anything Entreq with silver in it. But then again, I can't get silver analogue cables to work either (but I can SPDIF ones in which case I get significantly better results than copper).

I am actually now annoyed with myself that when I had the silver minimus for demo last year, I did not try connecting it to a "digital" ground as opposed to testing it only with the RCA analogue output grounds. It might have actually been better when connected "away" from the actual analogue signal path...

What is Entreq's highest level all-copper solution if one only needs to connect a maximum of 2 or 3 components? Is it still only those base model Minimus boxes? I'm not talking about the cables - boxes only.
 
Anyone know what is in the Olympus? I preferred the Olympus minimus to Silver Tellus when used on 1 component (I know there is quite a big price difference).
 
Anyone know what is in the Olympus? I preferred the Olympus minimus to Silver Tellus when used on 1 component (I know there is quite a big price difference).

As far as I know that information is not publicly available.
As with the Silver/Olympus Minimus it's probably as much down to it being bigger than any fundamental change in content, though there probably are some changes. Using my Poseidon which is three Olympus Minis in one box for amplifier input grounding and amplifier negative speaker terminal grounding improved the sound as compared with Silver Tellus input grounding and two Silver Minimus for amplifier negative speaker terminal grounding.
The Poseidon is cheaper than buying 3 Olympus minis so better value.
Well worth a home trial in my experience
 
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I´m not a member of WBF or any forum at all. And I have sworn that I never should join any debate on any forum.
But this time I feel that I have too. I´m not comfortable when customers that use our products have to defence themselves and Entreq against people who never try any of our products, but anyhow know that they don’t work and know for sure that it´s cat litter, cloth hangers, dirt etc in bad wood boxes . That they who use our products have faulty systems and that some wires twisted together will do the same thing as our boxes.
A good example of this clever heads is on page 149-151 on the Entreq thread on WBF where they ensure that Amp will blow away if connect negative Spkr to a Poseidon. So far no Amp has blown away and now days no one anymore ensures it will happen. So now it´s other truths they tell everyone who go in the thread..
Yes, of course, cables from each unit twisted together will have an effect, no doubt. Cables of different materials will also give different effect.
If you attach the cables on a Cupper plate you will have another effect. And if you put them on Brass, Magnesium ,Aluminium or what metal plate you choose you will get different effect each time.
Especially audible effect, but also measurable. And this is easy to test for everyone.
The Tellus that was opened and shown on photo are one of our first test ex of Tellus.
It´s no excuse for it look like it do inside, but if you want to comment our woodwork, please take a look at our Athena rack instead.
We spend the effort on what we think is important. A box that never is meant to be opend……………………..??
In the nineties I get 3 Patents approved. 2 of them where “stolen” or used by other bigger companys 2-3 year after we get the Pat approved.
When it happened first time I used lawyers and fight for protect my Pat.
I fight until I was nearly ruined then there was no way protect it anymore
Second time I simply have no money left to fight, so it was easy for another company to just start copy and use my ideas that have cost us a lot to develop and get Pat protection.


The lesson I learn.
Keep your knowledge by yourself. The important is that the customers/users are satisfied with the products and that you are able give them good service. And you are not, if you spend all money and time on try protect your products from copy and defence the products against rumours from people who never will use the products anyway, because they have better solutions created by their own.
So I will not share any of my knowledge or our measurements or any other info just because some trolls shout loudly that we have to. I feel very sorry for all you users who have to take all this **** on forums, when it´s me who are guilty for it and me who should have it instead of you, but I hope you understand me and I hope no one of you users feel that you not have get value for your money when buy our products.
And for you who absolutely need measurements for feel safe with your investing I´m also sorry. But I would not give you any. If it depends on that we don’t have any or if we don’t want to share it??
It´s up to your own imagine, but that´s the way I will continue.
This was a exception. I will not join any debate again in future, but I
would one more time say thank you to our customers. No names, no one forget
PO
 
P-O,

Many thanks for posting. As someone who is a big fan and one of the 'relatively early' owners of your wonderful products, i enjoy them every day. Thank you for doing great work, creating value in the industry to audiophiles everywhere. On the one hand it is unfortunate there is animosity...on the other hand, your product is great for many of us. And sometimes, that just invites animosity...it happens. Even the most popular leaders, companies, ideas have their detractors.

You have said 'no measurements' and i will respect that. If (in the future) there is a way to provide some non-proprietary technical guidance as to what we are hearing with your products, that would undoubtedly be fascinating to many of us. Sometimes, we appreciate a product even more when we can learn [a little bit] about all the hard work and clever design that went on behind it.

This is a request for your consideration over the long term...not for today, as you have made very clear. All the best and thanks again.
 
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A good example of this clever heads is on page 149-151 on the Entreq thread on WBF where they ensure that Amp will blow away if connect negative Spkr to a Poseidon. So far no Amp has blown away and now days no one anymore ensures it will happen. So now it´s other truths they tell everyone who go in the thread..

There is no mention of the Poseidon on those three pages.

The posts on those three pages were made between 7/4/15 and 7/10/15.

You didn't introduce the Poseidon until 7/15/15.
 
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Hi P-O,

I am a huge fan of your products! I only own the entry level ones but they are brilliant. Best money I ever spent on a hifi component! Even with the basic boxes and cables, when listening to a humble CD the experience goes a long way toward what the 24 bit version of that music sounds like. Thank you for making these products available to us!! I wish I had the funds for the high end Entreq gear but often dreaming is half the fun. Have a great day.

Fiddle Faddle
 
Two Silver Tellus with Atlantis cables. Phono pre and main pre for one unit, the other for the monoblocks amps. Entreq was the final polish on my system presentation. I prefer the sound of my system with the gear inserted.
 
There is no mention of the Poseidon on those three pages.

The posts on those three pages were made between 7/4/15 and 7/10/15.

You didn't introduce the Poseidon until 7/15/15.

A bit pedantic Dan.
Those posts including my own dealt with the amplifier negative speaker terminal grounding albeit at that stage with two Silver Minimus
 

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