No analog output from a sound card will be sonically transparent…your understanding of these things is very first order (ie. rudimentary) in that you think only linear distortion (frequency response and time delay) is important .
Does DSP belong in State of the Art Systems?
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No, not directly. What you describe is a sensation or feeling and of course we can´t measure that directly, but we can measure what is causing this feeling.
All kinds of distortion are important, if they cause a problem, as in having a sonic signature. Good electronic audio equipment will have distortion well below the human hearing threshold.
Unless one needs electronic adjustability in the cross-over slope or cross-over frequencies, or a notch filter, I’d say that any loudspeaker with an active cross-over can be upgraded (sonically) by a passive one.
ALL electronic equipment has an audible signature...all of it...none of it is below human hearing threshold.
Ron ,
You would typically ask a person making such a bold claim to justify it
Everything else being equal its hard for me to see dsp not winning !
Crossovers done by convolutuon filters in the digital domain have none of the complexities of passives or even actives. They are just so clunky in comparison. There are just not many examples out there yet. The market will decide ultimately but I expect more high end examples will appear in the not too distant future.
As usual for analogue source not so simple
Adds to the fun of this hobby
Agreed but filters done by convolution surely will not have a signature vs inductors, resistors etc.
Phil
Surely there is a threshold.
Have a look from page 78.
I think we have put the disagreement in high relief: I believe that not everything that can be heard can be measured (there are things I can hear that you cannot measure).
You believe that everything that can be heard can be measured.
I believe this is patently, provably untrue. Please tell me how you measure the difference in sound between the recording of a violin that sounds realistic and natural and convincing to PeterA versus a violin that sounds less realistic and less natural and less convincing to him.
Mike L was asking something similar in #282. We can´t measure feelings or sensations directly, with a measurement microphone, but we can analyse the impulse response and find things that would relate to what the person heard.
In Peter´s case it would often be FR related.
Take soundstage that does´t sound right. We can´t measure it per se, but diffraction from the speakers or skewed phase response would be, where I would look.
Many of these artifacts are related to the speakers and the room.
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The active crossover could mimic the passive if one wanted to. The difference with active would be that one amp drives the transducers separately and one removes components that normally adds distortion.
One is hugely limited of what one can do in a passive crossover. For every change you want to do, you have to add a component. And this component isn't as accurate as what can be done with the active. With passive, we end up with no signal aligment, a more unlinear response, usually a crossover with more compromises and higher distortion, and not the same dynamic capabilities. I don't understand why anyone would say that's an improvement.
And then you live with those amps for a while and you will find that a CLEAR preference for one or two will emerge...it is audible! ABX is not accurate for audio perception...there are too many variables in how we hear and it is not that precise but living with something will allow you to perceive things that are not there upon short listening...again your reductionist approach is just like Julian Hirsch's from that period! Trust me I wanted to believe this as I am a Ph.D in analytical chemistry no less! I made a career in making measurements and analysis but this is not like determining type and amount of chemical compounds...much 'fuzzier'. What I have learned is that engineers throughout history have been trying to correlate distortion with sound quality and they found that it is very subtle and non-linear such that very small distortions can have outsized impact.
Can you point to any study cases, that will back up your claim? I haven´t noticed any.
You have probably heard of the Carver Challenge.
www.stereophile.com
Do you think distortion profile is more important that FR?
Driving my systems active, I can´t say I hear any difference between amps, if I swap them and re-adjust, but hey that´s just me.
You have probably heard of the Carver Challenge.
The Carver Challenge
Is it possible to make a $700 "mainstream-audio" power amplifier sound exactly like a high-priced perfectionist amplifier? Bob Carver, of Carver Corporation, seemed to think he could, so we challenged him to prove it.
www.stereophile.com
Do you think distortion profile is more important that FR?
Driving my systems active, I can´t say I hear any difference between amps, if I swap them and re-adjust, but hey that´s just me.
I have one!!morricab, obsessed with distortion, you would really benefit from an active setup
And I hear big differences when I swap DACs and amps in and out of my active 2-way horn setup...morricab, obsessed with distortion, you would really benefit from an active setup
Can you point to any study cases, that will back up your claim? I haven´t noticed any.
You have probably heard of the Carver Challenge.
The Carver Challenge
Is it possible to make a $700 "mainstream-audio" power amplifier sound exactly like a high-priced perfectionist amplifier? Bob Carver, of Carver Corporation, seemed to think he could, so we challenged him to prove it.
Do you think distortion profile is more important that FR?
Driving my systems active, I can´t say I hear any difference between amps, if I swap them and re-adjust, but hey that´s just me.
This is Blizzard redux
this forum has been haunted with the past of a poster who said using frequency response he can recreate the sound of any system. So dacs, amplifiers, etc don’t matter. Please spare us a rerun seen a couple of seasons of the soap
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