Do I want my every day stereo, all out performance

[christoph]

I have - posted thoughts of one already actually

Dammit, I must have missed it.
Can you repeat it for me briefly or do I have to re-read the whole monster thread again?

 

[Derekw14]

I'm fortunate to have the opportunity to have both. I have always chased the most intense performance. That which I perceive as most alive and real. That has been a path of tubes. But I always wanted a system with less fuss. I also wanted less noise. No matter the tube amp, I end up with some amount of hum. Oddly, even thought the Dsrtzeel is absolutely dead quiet at the unit and out through the speakers, I wonder if I don't yearn for some noise as I spent years playing electric guitar. There may be an ingrained need for background growl in anticipation of the eruption of noise about to be let loose. Baaa what am I saying.

I get what rando is saying. To me, I always found SS dull at places I heard it. That or not as natural and over emphasized in bass and treble. The Dartzeel is neither of those. Its top and bottom extension and power are quite similar to my SET845. It's incredibly quiet and clean. Yet there is something that breaths a life about it. And that life is presented in a seductive way. It's not in your face like my tubes now seem to me. Its there in an unassuming way. Its just easy to get carried away.

Ultimately the Dartzeel will end up in a living room for daily use and the 845 will end up in a purpose built room.

It should also be noted my perception of the Dartzeel is by no means an absolute on how Dartzeel as a product may truely present. I am using a single ended tube preamp by First Sound to feed it. I believe it is a fantastic match, but I don't know if a Dartzeel preamp with 50 ohm connection might not yield more crack and whip to the playback. Maybe more top and bottom extension. And that will be the milion $ question for myself as I approach the point of having 2 separate rooms. I eventually need a second preamp. To Zeel or not to Zeel.
Rex

I.also added an edit to note, I really don't know if technically one is more correct than the other. My tube amp is basically a custom build. Its no longer a Black Shadow as the input had to be totally rebuilt and the output transformer was replaced with better. Maybe some of my perception of crack and whip is distortion or other issues associated with the original case, input transformer or who knows. I'm listening to the Dartzeel and Qobuz serves up A Great Miracle: Jeremiah Lockwood's Guitar Soli. Its flippin amazing. So alive and fresh sounding. As I said at Fremers, I could live with this.

I am also a total dartz 108 fan. The model 1 was my fave SS amp, and among my fave, period. But I found the model 2 to be a VERY significant upgrade, just better all the way around. Firmer bass, more resolution, and no compromise on the quality of highs and overall musicality. Had to let go of it, went to a friend who loves it. But boy do I miss it.

 

[Kingrex]

I am also a total dartz 108 fan. The model 1 was my fave SS amp, and among my fave, period. But I found the model 2 to be a VERY significant upgrade, just better all the way around. Firmer bass, more resolution, and no compromise on the quality of highs and overall musicality. Had to let go of it, went to a friend who loves it. But boy do I miss it.

What are you liking now?

 

[K3RMIT]

Im always confused how a new model can be so much better where at the time it was new the heavens opened up. then a new model it’s clear this is much better hahaha. So can it be it’s actually different not better in a momentous way ?? I’m not knocking it’s new claim but I am saying the approach to a new product needs to be adjusted. when I hear a new product that at first Listen it may gleam a wow , I sit back to use it over many days for things to settle
then I go back to what I had and it mostly seems different. like great food new can be over whelming
and I can jump to this is amazing.
lasltly not to derail the thread but did any speaker get adjustEd or even interconnects ?
in my time anytime I hear my known music as like new this is a great change. And I have no doubt the new amps might be giving you this. but a point can be made to is it better or a new view to the mountain top.

 

[K3RMIT]

Discard

Rex your post is correct one should adjust things to get the most out of the change. As for what you like it’s your choice not others who claim there
correct. while they might be under certain conditions you not them must like it.
Take a given system tuned how I like it. Over time I realized the types of guitar used was wrong. but it was my choice

 

[Khorn]

Easy for me. I have what would be described as a great casual A/V system in our bed/sitting room that gets used most of the day. Fabulous for TV as well as casual wee hour listening. Main attributes: extended listening without one iota of listening fatigue and extremely natural vocal presentation.

My main system invites total involvement. It transports me to the venue and deeply involves me in the performance. I’ve run the same speakers in my main system for well over 40 years now and with my recent purchase of all new electronics has reached a performance and involvement level and revelation of nuance and detail I couldn’t previously had considered possible.
I'm one very happy music listener with two systems doing exactly what I want them to.

 

[bazelio]

My initial impression is tape rules

a different picture...Dart 108 thick and meaty

Humm. Not a description I'd ever attribute to my Dart 108.

 

[Solypsa]

Well you live with one everyday, and I was describing the difference heard between two amps during an afternoons visit to Rex's house

Is your 108 an original (mk1)? Just curious...

 

[Derekw14]

Easy for me. I have what would be described as a great casual A/V system in our bed/sitting room that gets used most of the day. Fabulous for TV as well as casual wee hour listening. Main attributes: extended listening without one iota of listening fatigue and extremely natural vocal presentation.

My main system invites total involvement. It transports me to the venue and deeply involves me in the performance. I’ve run the same speakers in my main system for well over 40 years now and with my recent purchase of all new electronics has reached a performance and involvement level and revelation of nuance and detail I couldn’t previously had considered possible.
I'm one very happy music listener with two systems doing exactly what I want them to.

Sounds great. I have found quite challenging to build but one system doing well one of the two!

 

[Derekw14]

Humm. Not a description I'd ever attribute to my Dart 108.

Me neither.

 

[Solypsa]

Also with a casual and of course subjective expression such as 'thick and meaty' it is open to a variety of meaning. I am guessing it seems a bit of a negative to @bazelio but to me, in this comparo, it was a very good thing as in the music fleshed out ( get it...meaty ) and had more palpable body. Anyhoo liked it a lot...

 

[bazelio]

Well you live with one everyday, and I was describing the difference heard between two amps during an afternoons visit to Rex's house

Is your 108 an original (mk1)? Just curious...

Mine started as a Model 1 with SCNP. I later had Hervé update it to the Model 2.

 

[bazelio]

Also with a casual and of course subjective expression such as 'thick and meaty' it is open to a variety of meaning. I am guessing it seems a bit of a negative to @bazelio but to me, in this comparo, it was a very good thing as in the music fleshed out ( get it...meaty ) and had more palpable body. Anyhoo liked it a lot...

I'd guess you experienced greater transparency to upstream character in the chain with the Dart than with the other amp. The Dart is neither thick nor meaty itself, though. It would be a negative quality to me, yes. But I wasn't reacting negatively. It's just not a normal reaction to the amp that people have.

 

[Gregadd]

I tried this approach. It is just best to put your money in the one system. Eventually you end up listening exclusively to the one that sounds the best. IME of course.

 

[Solypsa]

I'd guess you experienced greater transparency to upstream character in the chain with the Dart than with the other amp. The Dart is neither thick nor meaty itself, though. It would be a negative quality to me, yes. But I wasn't reacting negatively. It's just not a normal reaction to the amp that people have.

I suppose that it would have been better writing for me to have said ' the music presented as more thick and meaty' but I would have thought that was obvious since we were listening to a few tracks ( tape and lp ) on two different amps within the same system context...


I have only two Dart experiences ( Rex and MikeL ) both of which have been really nice in their own different ways. Will have to try and get a listen to Durands system with Darts since I hear he has switched to Dart from his former favorite ( Tutay Altec 1570b )...

 

[bazelio]

I suppose that it would have been better writing for me to have said ' the music presented as more thick and meaty' but I would have thought that was obvious since we were listening to a few tracks ( tape and lp ) on two different amps within the same system context...


I have only two Dart experiences ( Rex and MikeL ) both of which have been really nice in their own different ways. Will have to try and get a listen to Durands system with Darts since I hear he has switched to Dart from his former favorite ( Tutay Altec 1570b )...

What you meant was not obvious. Dart vs Altec... Two very different animals for sure! Not a subtle change from a previous favorite.

 

[Solypsa]

What you meant was not obvious.

Sure OK.

Dart vs Altec... Two very different animals for sure! Not a subtle change from a previous favorite.

I am excited to hear the Darts in Durand's system. I heard his Tutay modded Altecs on two different occasions ( first with Quads and then later with Evolution Acoustics ) and he had both systems sounding fab.

 

[Khorn]

Sounds great. I have found quite challenging to build but one system doing well one of the two!

I find my bed sitting room our “life system”. It’s on most of the time as we spend most of our lives in this room. We both listen to it for extended hours of TV, I could listen late into the wee hours for casual laid back Jazz and when I’m involved with my main system my wife is using the A/V for her shows.

The main system commands total involvement and once I’m caught by it game over. I’m captured by the musical presentation like an iron grip and it usually keeps my locked and bouncing around in my seat (I must look ridiculous) for hours on end before I can escape.

 

[Kingrex]

I fell back into a tube hole. I got the itch to switch the Dartzeel out and the 845 back in. I just love the sound of tubes. String instruments, horns, classical, jazz. They all come alive with the tubes. Its so nice and meaty and harmonically dense. I'm sure the technical listener would say I love distortion and that is not real music. But hey, you can sink into it and really enjoy what comes at you.

 

[Atmasphere]

I get it. In addition to having all the good things like transparency, detail, speed, impact and the like, its got to be musically/emotionally involving too.