Denafrips product owners please fall in

richard_crl032

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Sep 10, 2019
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I also wish I could output ethernet to the TP also.

I upgraded my HDMI to

AudioQuest Thunderbird 48 0.75m 8K-10K 48Gbps HDMI Cable (2.5ft)​

and it made a HUGE improvement over

AudioQuest Coffee HDMI 1.5 m HDMI Black Cable HDMI – HDMI Cable (1.5 m, HDMI Type A (Standard), HDMI Type A (Standard), 3d, 10.2 Gbit/s, Black)​

I also tried the Sommer HDMI recommended by Alvin, the Sommer was better than the Coffee but not in the league of the Thunderbird. I also upgraded my USB from a Curious Cable to

Network Acoustics ENO USB Cable Ag​

and it was definitely better also, much smoother and detailed, airy.

I agree it sounds good to try less is more but my experience is the more I add the better it gets with the expection that I am on the fence about my experience with adding a master clock to the Etherregen and SFP fiber between it and a SOtM switch.
Hi Rikki,

For whatever usb cable into TP, try the very affordable idefender3.0 to cut 5v ... TP work without 5v this way.

I have no doubt cables makes a different beyond a certain level, it is to "tune" our system to circumvent some limitation present and to your preference.

For i2s, I prefers RJ45 into TP in my system and not hdmi and for non dsd, you can also try dual AES-ebu from denafrips ddc to TP.

Cheers.

Richard
 
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Blake

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Jun 28, 2018
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For i2s, I prefers RJ45 into TP in my system and not hdmi and for non dsd, you can also try dual AES-ebu from denafrips ddc to TP.

Cheers.

Richard

Hi Richard,

I liked RJ45 I2S as well, but, it proved to be very problematic running RJ45 from my Gaia to my TP (I think I wrote about the popping/static noises earlier in this thread). In order to avoid these noises you need an exceptionally short RJ45 to avoid these problems. I think Alvin suggested 30 mm or less if memory serves and physically connecting the DDC and DAC with this short of a cable in many situations will prove physically impossible due to the orientation of power cables for both devices and cables into the DDC.

Just from anecdotal evidence from reading various user reports, I do get a sense that a clear majority seem to find I2S to be sonically superior input over other inputs, but not everyone has the ability to run i2S into their DAC. Other than one or two users, I can't recall reading posts where a user tried all options and preferred another input (AudioBacon (Jay) prefers USB, but he details why in his Terminator review and it is due to his sonic preferences, rather than technical performance). Of course, the only opinion on this issue that matters is that of the user and frankly, all inputs sound really darn good on all Denafrips DAC's. Try it and find the one you like the best in terms of sonics.
 

richard_crl032

Well-Known Member
Sep 10, 2019
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Hi Richard,

I liked RJ45 I2S as well, but, it proved to be very problematic running RJ45 from my Gaia to my TP (I think I wrote about the popping/static noises earlier in this thread). In order to avoid these noises you need an exceptionally short RJ45 to avoid these problems. I think Alvin suggested 30 mm or less if memory serves and physically connecting the DDC and DAC with this short of a cable in many situations will prove physically impossible due to the orientation of power cables for both devices and cables into the DDC.

Just from anecdotal evidence from reading various user reports, I do get a sense that a clear majority seem to find I2S to be sonically superior input over other inputs, but not everyone has the ability to run i2S into their DAC. Other than one or two users, I can't recall reading posts where a user tried all options and preferred another input (AudioBacon (Jay) prefers USB, but he details why in his Terminator review and it is due to his sonic preferences, rather than technical performance). Of course, the only opinion on this issue that matters is that of the user and frankly, all inputs sound really darn good on all Denafrips DAC's. Try it and find the one you like the best in terms of sonics.

Hi Blake,

Believe you bought the below and not sure if 0.5m suffices for your use case but I had no issue with it from Avatar to TP but had not tried from Hermes to TP which I have the 0.75m Tubulus hdmi i2s:

SG$ 36.16 32%OFF | Cat8 Ethernet Cable RJ 45 Lan Cable Cat 8 Networking Cable 0.5M 1M 1.5M 2M 3M 4M 5M 7M 8M 10M 12M 15M 20M 25M 30M 40M 50M 60M

I am not using the RJ45 i2s of Hermes/Gaia to TP as it is i2s-C LVCMOS type which is reportedly of higher jitter than i2s-B LVDS.

For non dsd as in my case of primary use of the Hermes/Gaia with my Bel Canto FM tuner at 96khz, I now prefers dual AES to get 192khz via 3x added pairs of very affordable 1.0m DHlabs D110 aes-ebu cables (less than the Tabulus hdmi i2s cable) ... more density and more focus which results also in a more dynamic presentation than the hdmi i2s that will remain as 96khz from the Bel Canto tuner.

Cheers.

Richard
Screenshot_20210215-041002_Chrome.jpg
 
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Blake

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Jun 28, 2018
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To be clear on one point in my previous post, for RJ45, I am only referring to an RJ45 cable inserted between the Denafrips DDC and the Denafrips DAC. For RJ45 cables placed elsewhere in the system, the length is not an issue.
 
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richard_crl032

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Sep 10, 2019
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To be clear on one point in my previous post, for RJ45, I am only referring to an RJ45 cable inserted between the Denafrips DDC and the Denafrips DAC. For RJ45 cables placed elsewhere in the system, the length is not an issue.

Hi Blake,

Noted and will try using available 0.5m and 1m yellow cat 8 ethernet from Hermes to TP via i2s-C lvdcmos to try against dual aes-ebu to report back any pop and difference in sound quality then.

But as mentioned, I am using only ddc for non dsd source of bel canto fm tuner with Antipodes direct to TP via usb and do not expect better sound quality with only available i2s-C when back to 96khz like hdmi i2s vs dual AES at 192khz.

Cheers.

Richard
 

richard_crl032

Well-Known Member
Sep 10, 2019
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Hi Blake,

Noted and will try using available 0.5m and 1m yellow cat 8 ethernet from Hermes to TP via i2s-C lvdcmos to try against dual aes-ebu to report back any pop and difference in sound quality then.

But as mentioned, I am using only ddc for non dsd source of bel canto fm tuner with Antipodes direct to TP via usb and do not expect better sound quality with only available i2s-C when back to 96khz like hdmi i2s vs dual AES at 192khz.

Cheers.

Richard

Hi Blake,

0.5m yellow chinese ofc cat 8 cable works fine without pops or any abnormalities with 96khz Bel Canto tuner from Hermes to TP via i2s-c lvcmos Rj45 ....

It is more airy and relaxed sounding but slightly less detailed and dynamic as compared to i2s-b lvds RJ45 on the same attributes and also when compared to dual aes-ebu that I prefers.

Using aes-ebu as a reference and better or worse depends on your preference and music genre, it will be aribitrarily and relatively as below on clarity, details, focus and dynamics to me via both Revel Salon 2 speakers and Grado FG-1 headphones:

Dual aes-ebu=100%
I2s-b = 50%
I2s-c = 25%

This also tells me that you do not need an expensive silver Tubulus hdmi i2s cable if you wish for more airy relaxed sound with i2s-c lvcmos RJ45 via shared cheap ofc chinese cat 8 cable .. system dependent YMMV as usual.

Cheers.

Richard

20210215_134324.jpg
 
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RikkiPoo

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Nov 4, 2020
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Hi Rikki,

For whatever usb cable into TP, try the very affordable idefender3.0 to cut 5v ... TP work without 5v this way.

I have no doubt cables makes a different beyond a certain level, it is to "tune" our system to circumvent some limitation present and to your preference.

For i2s, I prefers RJ45 into TP in my system and not hdmi and for non dsd, you can also try dual AES-ebu from denafrips ddc to TP.

Cheers.

Richard
I was reading the TP manual and it says the 5v is needed to trigger the USB input on, apparently the USB is turned off if it is not used to lower noise.

I remember I had early issues when I ran several servers with one that had I2S out, if I changed input between USB and I2S and then back to USB I would need to restart my USB server to retrigger the USB to turn on after leaving it. I wonder if I need the 5v trigger now with the Iris.
 

richard_crl032

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Sep 10, 2019
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I was reading the TP manual and it says the 5v is needed to trigger the USB input on, apparently the USB is turned off if it is not used to lower noise.

I remember I had early issues when I ran several servers with one that had I2S out, if I changed input between USB and I2S and then back to USB I would need to restart my USB server to retrigger the USB to turn on after leaving it. I wonder if I need the 5v trigger now with the Iris.
Hi Rikki,

Glad I did not read the TP manual then as it works unless idefender3.0 does not cut 5v which is highly unlikely the case and I do not connect external 5v to it.

Read the manual now and it simply says the below which to me means that the usb is in fact self-powered when you select usb input of the TP:
NOTE: The USB Module is designed to trigger on only when USB Input is selected. This is intended design to reduce digital input interfaces cross-interference for best sound reproduction.

Your mentioned server case is more likely that it needed to sense that a dac is connect else it lost connection which I too had experience with other usb source and not TP or Terminator itself.

Try it, it is only usd50 in the crazy world of audiophile and it certainly doing something in a positive way even for the Antipodes cx+ex stack.

Cheers.

Richard

Screenshot_20210217-090531_Chrome.jpg
 

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RikkiPoo

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Nov 4, 2020
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Hi Richard, I got this from the denafrips FAQ page under USB

DENAFRIPS DAC USB module is powered by its internal regulated, low noise, low ripple, high speed linear power supply.

However, it needs the USB cable to supply the +5vdc as a logic signal to trigger the internal power supply to the USB module. This design is intentional for best sound quality consideration.

I use the I2S input now. I do have a USB cable between the Statement and Iris, I don't know if the Iris needs a 5v signal.
 
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richard_crl032

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Hi Richard, I got this from the denafrips FAQ page under USB

DENAFRIPS DAC USB module is powered by its internal regulated, low noise, low ripple, high speed linear power supply.

However, it needs the USB cable to supply the +5vdc as a logic signal to trigger the internal power supply to the USB module. This design is intentional for best sound quality consideration.

I use the I2S input now. I do have a USB cable between the Statement and Iris, I don't know if the Iris needs a 5v signal.
Hi Rikki,

Will test output of idefender3.0 to confirm then but indeed not sure of Iris while Hermes certainly work also in my case in addition to TP.

Then I can sue ifi is indeed idefender3.0 still has 5v output .. keke !

Cheers.

Richard
 

RikkiPoo

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Nov 4, 2020
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I had a Yggy and there is no comparison to the Terminator or TP, the are just in another league. The difference is reflected in the price just as the difference between the Terminator and TP are reflected in their prices.
 
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Jaytor

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Dec 22, 2020
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I still have an Yggy A2 and also a TP (which replaced a Terminator). I agree that the Denafrips DACs are a nice step up from the Yggy although the Yggy is a very nice DAC in its price range. I haven't heard the Venus or Pontus so not sure how Denafrips' comparably priced DACs compared to the Yggy.

The Termy and TP benefitted greatly from adding the Gaia. That took them to another level (I actually haven't tried the TP without it but I'm assuming the improvements to the TP are similar to the Termy.
 

RikkiPoo

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Nov 4, 2020
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I added the Iris and agree it was worth it. I found clocking the Iris with the TP is what really changes the character and gives the biggest boost.
 
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Jaytor

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Dec 22, 2020
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On the Terminator (which doesn't have clock outputs), adding the Gaia and switching to i2s was huge, but the Gaia clocks are probably better than the Terminator clocks, which can't be said about the TP. So when you connect the TP clocks to the DDC, you're using the TP's clocks.

I suspect the Gaia would be a better choice for the Terminator, but the Iris (using the TP's clocks) probably achieves the same results with the TP.
 

RikkiPoo

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Nov 4, 2020
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If you have the TP then using the clock out for the Gaia is likely better that using the Gaia's clock.
 
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Jaytor

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Dec 22, 2020
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Yes, agreed. That's what I'm doing with the TP.
 

richard_crl032

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Sep 10, 2019
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I added the Iris and agree it was worth it. I found clocking the Iris with the TP is what really changes the character and gives the biggest boost.

Hi Rikki,

I find this depends on the quality of your source to denafrips dcc to TP or directly to TP ....

Just try 10x swapping usb output from the Antipodes EX+CX stack to the Hermes clocked to TP and direct to TP and selecting dual aes, i2s-A hdmi and i2s-C and direct usb on the TP.

Direct to TP sounded refined, polished and natural while via Hermes sounded like indeed boosted thru some EQ especially via dual aes although it sounded better than i2s-A and i2s-C in that it is more in focus and dynamic.

I only have my Bel Canto fm1 tuner via aes-ebu to the Hermes that indeed sounded better than direct to TP .. probably benefitting from synced to single TP clock.

Cheers.

Richard
 
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richard_crl032

Well-Known Member
Sep 10, 2019
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If you have the TP then using the clock out for the Gaia is likely better that using the Gaia's clock.

Hi Rikki,

"Using clock out for the Gaia" is perhaps better described as "Using clock in for the Gaia from TP" vs using Gaia's clock.

When synced to TP's clock, your are using a superior SINGLE sealed oxco clock compared to the lesser Gaia's oxco clock. Using Gaia's clock means you do not sync to TP's clock and with both clocks in use that is expected to have higher jitters since they cannot be running in exact same timing.

Cheers.

Richard
 

Abyss Man

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Jun 17, 2019
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If you have the TP then using the clock out for the Gaia is likely better that using the Gaia's clock.
Hi @RikkiPoo,
For those of us who have the TP, it's definitely wise to take advantage of the TP clock if its mated with their DDC, having said that, the clock in the Gaia is no slouch either, it is pretty darn good.

The clocking cables make a difference too and please scroll through to see where best to place your best BNC cable. I have found that footers make a big difference too. Do experiment. @Blake had posted some info regarding this as well.
 

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