DCS Vivaldi

[Cincy2]

The ethernet end point is a game changer vs. usb for me.

In what way?

Cincy

 

[Kingsrule]

Easy:
Eliminates another cable that colors
USB sounds computerized, processed
RJ45 more organic, dynamic, dimensional (I do use fiber in the paths)
Part of this is the roon delivery also

 

[caesar]

Did you like your Vivaldi without the clock?

I think this depends on whether people are into DSD or PCM. For guys who upconvert/ upsample/ oversample/ upfilter / do whatever it takes to get to DSD, the clock makes less of a difference.

However, if you like PCM better than DSD, the clock is a must be purchased with the DAC, or you will feel like a sucker for spending so much money on a dac and having mediocre sound.

 

[caesar]

I agree. This reminds me of MikeL's comment that he likes listening to music in its native format. If I remember correctly, more and more, he selects the music he wants to hear, rather than the format. So, 50s/60s/70s jazz on vinyl, newer music recorded digitally on files or CD. As a committed vinyl guy, I have to admit, the dCS stuff sounds mighty good. However, it is expensive, just like great analog. To that end, has anyone directly compared, say, the AF1 with top arm/cartridge to the dCS stack? The conclusion might take us right back to MikeL's comment.

In my limited experience, I have found that the best sources are exceptionally good if properly set up in the right system, regardless of format, and to a lesser extent, regardless of price. The AF1 and Vivaldi just happen to be similarly priced, and at the top, reference products that some people have heard at shows and dealerships, so I mention them for the sake of argument. And this is WHAT'S BEST FORUM.

In my experience, the full dcs Vivaldi stack get trashed using a $15k turntable. Heard with several classical recordings that came from the same source. It wasn't even close - vinyl KILLS dCS.

However,if that record has been professionally (vs. by a clueless schmock) converted to PCM 192/24 using equipment costing $250K or so, the results get reversed. Then digital wins because you get all the benefits of vinyl less the noise from stylus microphonics. It's jaw dropping how much noise the stylus picks up. What a fun hobby! YMMV

 

[microstrip]

In my experience, the full dcs Vivaldi stack get trashed using a $15k turntable. Heard with several classical recordings that came from the same source. It wasn't even close - vinyl KILLS dCS.

A common and abusive generalization, IMHO. You are usually comparing the mastering quality, not the equipment playing it. Can you say what were the exact recordings being used? IMHO you must compare the best vinyl with the best digital in an absolute sense - and such thing does not exist in the same recording.

However,if that record has been professionally (vs. by a clueless schmock) converted to PCM 192/24 using equipment costing $250K or so, the results get reversed. Then digital wins because you get all the benefits of vinyl less the noise from stylus microphonics. It's jaw dropping how much noise the stylus picks up. What a fun hobby! YMMV

Sorry, I do not understand how this agrees with your previous comment. Again, can we have solid examples to fuel our funny hobby?

 

[caesar]

A common and abusive generalization, IMHO. You are usually comparing the mastering quality, not the equipment playing it. Can you say what were the exact recordings being used? IMHO you must compare the best vinyl with the best digital in an absolute sense - and such thing does not exist in the same recording.



Sorry, I do not understand how this agrees with your previous comment. Again, can we have solid examples to fuel our funny hobby?

Hi Microstrip,

I honestly don't remember the recordings used, but it was very clear cut. The table used was the $15K AMG table (maybe $17K in US now).

As to digitized vinyl done by a professional on equipment costing into six figures and sounding better than digital and vinyl is NOT a contradiction The digitized vinyl keeps ALL the virtues of vinyl, but due to reduction of stylus microphonic noise, actually sounds BETTER than vinyl. If you never heard it done well, you should try to hear it.

 

[microstrip]

Hi Microstrip,

I honestly don't remember the recordings used, but it was very clear cut. The table used was the $15K AMG table (maybe $17K in US now).

As to digitized vinyl done by a professional on equipment costing into six figures and sounding better than digital and vinyl is NOT a contradiction The digitized vinyl keeps ALL the virtues of vinyl, but due to reduction of stylus microphonic noise, actually sounds BETTER than vinyl. If you never heard it done well, you should try to hear it.

I would love to hear it, but your help is needed! IMHO the interest of audio forums is in the facts and details, not in the generic polls. It is why I ask for concise details.

Are you simply addressing the effect of speaker feedback in the vinyl playback? These experiments were already carried many times in the past.

 

[caesar]

I would love to hear it, but your help is needed! IMHO the interest of audio forums is in the facts and details, not in the generic polls. It is why I ask for concise details.

Are you simply addressing the effect of speaker feedback in the vinyl playback? These experiments were already carried many times in the past.

I wish I could be more helpful... but with all the stuff I got going on, I frequently forget my kids and dogs names. All I did was ask a classically knowledgeable guy to play the same sourced recordings on the Vivaldi and the AMG. It was really convincing in favor of vinyl... I know a lot of guys like to intellectually masturbate about sonic differences. I suppose that approach is fine if you are comparing a tube with a ribbed physical texture to one with a smooth texture, but what I heard were part the red sea differences in favor of vinyl.

As to stylus acting as a microphone, we had a thread fairly recently:

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...-best-solutions-to-reduce-Stylus-Microphonics

And I think the best way to reduce stylus microphonics is to (professionally) digitize the vinyl

 

[number95]

In my experience, the full dcs Vivaldi stack get trashed using a $15k turntable. Heard with several classical recordings that came from the same source. It wasn't even close - vinyl KILLS dCS.

However,if that record has been professionally (vs. by a clueless schmock) converted to PCM 192/24 using equipment costing $250K or so, the results get reversed. Then digital wins because you get all the benefits of vinyl less the noise from stylus microphonics. It's jaw dropping how much noise the stylus picks up. What a fun hobby! YMMV

Well, my t/t costs around 15-20k usd depending on euro and Us import price. Compared to tonearms and cartridges that I use including phono cables and phono stage, I can easily say t/t is presumably not at the same calibre so perhaps it can have a similar situation as comparing a 15k t/t to DCS. I never felt my analog rig kills my Vivaldi transport and dac even w/o clock. And I can provide tons of albums vs dsd to compare from older recordings to very recent ones. What I can say is for older recordings and/or originally recorded in analog, vinyl wins. No comparison. Perhaps it is due to the fact of the data stored in a different medium and then converted into different medium and again reconverted into analog. That said when we switch to recordings originally recorded in digital, things move. One may still favour analog on my system but it depends and for my case, there are certain albums which I prefer DCS over my turntable. I also assume clock will improve what I hear from Vivaldi. But bottomline is when you have a source like Vivaldi, it is irrelevant at least to my ears that whether I need to switch to vinyl or keep listening digital. One may claim I can have better results with a much more expensive analog deck. It is for sure true. But Vivaldi will always find itself mostly used at my system. For me, the race is irrelevant between formats after a digital source like Vivaldi. I play vinyl and I have fun. I play digital I also have fun. Shall I sell my analog rig? No way.

 

[caesar]

Well, my t/t costs around 15-20k usd depending on euro and Us import price. Compared to tonearms and cartridges that I use including phono cables and phono stage, I can easily say t/t is presumably not at the same calibre so perhaps it can have a similar situation as comparing a 15k t/t to DCS. I never felt my analog rig kills my Vivaldi transport and dac even w/o clock. And I can provide tons of albums vs dsd to compare from older recordings to very recent ones. What I can say is for older recordings and/or originally recorded in analog, vinyl wins. No comparison. Perhaps it is due to the fact of the data stored in a different medium and then converted into different medium and again reconverted into analog. That said when we switch to recordings originally recorded in digital, things move. One may still favour analog on my system but it depends and for my case, there are certain albums which I prefer DCS over my turntable. I also assume clock will improve what I hear from Vivaldi. But bottomline is when you have a source like Vivaldi, it is irrelevant at least to my ears that whether I need to switch to vinyl or keep listening digital. One may claim I can have better results with a much more expensive analog deck. It is for sure true. But Vivaldi will always find itself mostly used at my system. For me, the race is irrelevant between formats after a digital source like Vivaldi. I play vinyl and I have fun. I play digital I also have fun. Shall I sell my analog rig? No way.

Number 95, thanks for sharing. I think you are right on about newer vs. older digital. And I am with you that when you listen to great music that is well reproduced, you just get into it and not think about the format or remastering.

We may have just have differing tastes, which is what makes this hobby interesting. Another (small) possibility could be turntable setup. The vinyl setup I heard was tweaked to perfection by the importer.

P.S. You have a great system. Enjoy!

 

[number95]

Number 95, thanks for sharing. I think you are right on about newer vs. older digital. And I am with you that when you listen to great music that is well reproduced, you just get into it and not think about the format or remastering.

We may have just have differing tastes, which is what makes this hobby interesting. Another (small) possibility could be turntable setup. The vinyl setup I heard was tweaked to perfection by the importer.

P.S. You have a great system. Enjoy!

Cheers Caesar!

 

[microstrip]

While we wait for DSD256 - Raveen Bawa told us that it was being developed for the Vivaldi - can some one point me one excellent native DSD128 chamber recording and an also native DSD128 big orchestra great recording? Currently my best DSD recordings are just DSD64.

 

[jfrech]

While we wait for DSD256 - Raveen Bawa told us that it was being developed for the Vivaldi - can some one point me one excellent native DSD128 chamber recording and an also native DSD128 big orchestra great recording? Currently my best DSD recordings are just DSD64.

Excellent: https://eudora.nativedsd.com/albums/EUDDR1605-brotons-handel-tchaikovsky

Not exactly chamber...but excellent https://eudora.nativedsd.com/albums/fernando-sor-guitar-sonatas

I'd try this one in DXD and DSD128: https://referencerecordings.nativedsd.com/albums/FR715SACD-mahler-symphony-no-1-titan

 

[MadFloyd]

I added a Vivaldi DAC to my system yesterday. Temporarily using an Auralic Aries (via USB ) as a bridge from my music server.

It's an impressive DAC for sure. Handled every format I threw at it.... even DSD 256.... hmm... This morning I turned on the Vivaldi's display only to see that everything was being played back 16/44. Roon confirmed it:


Serves me right for not doing the proper setup on the Aries! Much better now. Love the Vivaldi icon in Roon.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Ian,

congrats on the Vivaldi!!!

 

[LL21]

Ian,

congrats on the Vivaldi!!!

+1! Ian - Time to update your signature again! Whoo-hoo!

 

[jfrech]

Ian CONGRATS !!!

I find it takes about 2-3 days to "warm up" from a full power down. Things are a bit confused for the first day or two. So if you're liking it now ...

Plus you might have some breakin ... please keep posting impressions as you can!

 

[MadFloyd]

Thanks, guys.

My unit was used so it's broken in, but I did wonder if, like many components (and especially digital ones), if it would benefit from a few days warm up.

I'm also hoping it will improve when I switch over from the Aries (USB) to the upcoming network bridge (not that the sound isn't already stellar!).

 

[bonzo75]

Wow you are adding components faster than they can deliver them.

 

[MadFloyd]

Wow you are adding components faster than they can deliver them.

If only I could sell 'em that fast too