DCS Vivaldi

[LL21]

So I had a friend come by today to listen to my Vivaldi. We did some digital vs vinyl comparisons. We've done this before..the last time when I had the dCS Vivaldi dac but Scarlatti Trans and Clock. We all liked the digital, but the switch to vinyl extended the listening enjoyment.

Well, today was different. We listened to Chet Baker "Chet" the 33 from Acoustic Sounds and the SACD from Acoustic sounds. Presumably both from the master tapes. We then listened to the Wes Montgomery Trio, "a Dynamic New Sound for Guitar/Organ/Drums" Again Acoustic Sounds SACD and this time 45 vinyl.

My digital has caught up with my vinyl. One had more sparkle...one had better resolution, the other better decays...the other better depth. These were really fine points only a a/b test could point out the differences. Who knows if the software had different mastering chains (suspect so)

Honestly, this is the first time I have not preferred vinyl 100% to digital. That's quite a statement for those that know me...

Fantastic! I have read this about only a rarified few digital designs that convince otherwise die-hard vinyl fans. Congrats on owning one where far more than one have already said this. Enjoy!!

 

[microstrip]

So I had a friend come by today to listen to my Vivaldi. We did some digital vs vinyl comparisons. We've done this before..the last time when I had the dCS Vivaldi dac but Scarlatti Trans and Clock. We all liked the digital, but the switch to vinyl extended the listening enjoyment.

Well, today was different. We listened to Chet Baker "Chet" the 33 from Acoustic Sounds and the SACD from Acoustic sounds. Presumably both from the master tapes. We then listened to the Wes Montgomery Trio, "a Dynamic New Sound for Guitar/Organ/Drums" Again Acoustic Sounds SACD and this time 45 vinyl.

My digital has caught up with my vinyl. One had more sparkle...one had better resolution, the other better decays...the other better depth. These were really fine points only a a/b test could point out the differences. Who knows if the software had different mastering chains (suspect so)

Honestly, this is the first time I have not preferred vinyl 100% to digital. That's quite a statement for those that know me...

John,

I am sure that with such digital playing system you will find digital very enjoyable. The main issue in jazz is that most of the time the CDs are really inferior sounding to the vintage LPs - do not ask me why. The DCS Vivaldi and the Metronome's were on top of my listening - I choose the Calypso/C2A because of greater compatibility with my system and preferences. Did you get the Transparent Audio XL digital cables setup? In my system it sounds really excellent and I know of a local Vivaldi owner who tried and bought the full set.

 

[LL21]

Jeff,

I am sure that with such digital playing system you will find digital very enjoyable. The main issue in jazz is that most of the time the CDs are really inferior sounding to the vintage LPs - do not ask me why. The DCS Vivaldi and the Metronome's were on top of my listening - I choose the Calypso/C2A because of greater compatibility with my system and preferences. Did you get the Transparent Audio XL digital cables setup? In my system it sounds really excellent and I know of a local Vivaldi owner who tried and bought the full set.

Hi Micro, you have one of my favorite digital systems (actually newer generation) i have heard. JFrech one of the others. Yes i think JFrech is running the new TA RefXL digital and has mainly Opus MM2 now, with maybe 1 RefMM (MM2) left to upgrade. Jfrech - is that right?

 

[jfrech]

Hi Micro, you have one of my favorite digital systems (actually newer generation) i have heard. JFrech one of the others. Yes i think JFrech is running the new TA RefXL digital and has mainly Opus MM2 now, with maybe 1 RefMM (MM2) left to upgrade. Jfrech - is that right?

Hi that's right. And to Microstrips point(It's john btw...), I also got to hear the trans ref xl digital cables before I bought them. I did not take long to make that decision. They make quite an improvement.

I'll try some more digital vs vinyl comparisons with more varying music...my real point here is the listening enjoyment is now right there on both formats...I am curious to try some super hi rez downloads 24/384 and 2xDSD...as always...the software is the key I think for either format to sound incredible

 

[number95]

Hi that's right. And to Microstrips point(It's john btw...), I also got to hear the trans ref xl digital cables before I bought them. I did not take long to make that decision. They make quite an improvement.

I'll try some more digital vs vinyl comparisons with more varying music...my real point here is the listening enjoyment is now right there on both formats...I am curious to try some super hi rez downloads 24/384 and 2xDSD...as always...the software is the key I think for either format to sound incredible

Given a serious analog set up you have, your statement between analog n digital after Vivaldi stack is also quite serious. I will soon try to listen to Vivaldi (4 pieces) and to compare against SME 30/12 + Coralstone +ARC REf2 SE in a different system.

 

[jfrech]

Given a serious analog set up you have, your statement between analog n digital after Vivaldi stack is also quite serious. I will soon try to listen to Vivaldi (4 pieces) and to compare against SME 30/12 + Coralstone +ARC REf2 SE in a different system.

#95, you have quite the analog front end also. I've heard all of your components. One of the best for sure ! Let us know when you listen...I don't have the upsampler...but apparently it adds quite a bit to non DSD recordings...a few have said it's more important than a clock for non dsd recordings..

 

[PeterA]

Given a serious analog set up you have, your statement between analog n digital after Vivaldi stack is also quite serious. I will soon try to listen to Vivaldi (4 pieces) and to compare against SME 30/12 + Coralstone +ARC REf2 SE in a different system.

That will be a most interesting comparison. Please report back and let us know what you think. What will be in the rest of that system? Speakers, electronics and cables?

 

[CKKeung]

Mr. Raveen Bawa who is in charge of international sale of dCS was interviewed last week in Hong Kong :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ir6h4qyE_mk

 

[number95]

That will be a most interesting comparison. Please report back and let us know what you think. What will be in the rest of that system? Speakers, electronics and cables?

Hi Peter,

Magico Q5, Constellation Centaur mono amps, ARC Ref 40 preamp, (either Opus MM2 or Odin not quite sure). For sure I will share my impressions. It may take a while to go and listen btw. Thanks for the patience

 

[number95]

#95, you have quite the analog front end also. I've heard all of your components. One of the best for sure ! Let us know when you listen...I don't have the upsampler...but apparently it adds quite a bit to non DSD recordings...a few have said it's more important than a clock for non dsd recordings..

Thank you Jfrech. I hope to listen soon and come back with my impressions. For sure, after your feedback DCS is on my radar.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Interesting that it's taken over 3 decades for us died-in-the-wool analogheads to finally find digital more than just palatable, but in many cases on a par w/lp replay, and in some respects superior. From cd's genesis in '83 to the early '00s, I just could not stand digital at all, epitomised by my Marantz SA1 cd/sacd box, that at £5k was the biggest mistake I've ever made in audio purchasing. Then I got the Emm Labs CDSA SE cdp, and in many respects it left my Michell Orbe/SME V/Transfiguration Orpheus/Tom Evans Groove Plus SRX vinyl front end in the dust. For 5 years, I was left perplexed as my imprecise and euphonically warm/coloured tt was regularly trounced by cd replay. Then 2 years ago I invested in my current (and final) analog rig, the direct rim drive Trans Fi Audio Salvation tt/air bearing linear tracking Terminator T3pro arm/Soundsmith Straingauge SG200 cart w. Red Wine Audio batt psu (many similarities in tech execution to JFrech's dd Monaco tt/linear Schroeder LT), and guess what?…analog asserted it's natural superiority over digital. Now in the last 6 months I've moved to the Eera Tentation cdp (my final digital upgrade), and digital has come back up on the inside rail. In conclusion, I'm now getting rel. equal enjoyment from both digital and analog. They both still sound fundamentally different of course (analog superior in the areas of tone and micro dynamics, digital superior in terms of low noise floor and macro dynamics), but there are enough qualities in common that are equally good on both players (speed, resolution, PRAT) that I don't get restless as I did before when listening to cd's hankering ASAP to listen to lp's.
It seems that finally in the era of DCS Vivaldi, StahlTek, Zanden, Trinity, Eera etc digital has come of age, and can stand shoulder to shoulder (w/some jostling!) w/analog.

 

[bonzo75]

You don't have to go that high up in price, Marc, in fact, the dCS signature is quite different to me from Analog. try the Lampi 7.

 

[FrantzM]

Interesting that it's taken over 3 decades for us died-in-the-wool analogheads to finally find digital more than just palatable, but in many cases on a par w/lp replay, and in some respects superior. From cd's genesis in '83 to the early '00s, I just could not stand digital at all, epitomised by my Marantz SA1 cd/sacd box, that at £5k was the biggest mistake I've ever made in audio purchasing. Then I got the Emm Labs CDSA SE cdp, and in many respects it left my Michell Orbe/SME V/Transfiguration Orpheus/Tom Evans Groove Plus SRX vinyl front end in the dust. For 5 years, I was left perplexed as my imprecise and euphonically warm/coloured tt was regularly trounced by cd replay. Then 2 years ago I invested in my current (and final) analog rig, the direct rim drive Trans Fi Audio Salvation tt/air bearing linear tracking Terminator T3pro arm/Soundsmith Straingauge SG200 cart w. Red Wine Audio batt psu (many similarities in tech execution to JFrech's dd Monaco tt/linear Schroeder LT), and guess what?…analog asserted it's natural superiority over digital. Now in the last 6 months I've moved to the Eera Tentation cdp (my final digital upgrade), and digital has come back up on the inside rail. In conclusion, I'm now getting rel. equal enjoyment from both digital and analog. They both still sound fundamentally different of course (analog superior in the areas of tone and micro dynamics, digital superior in terms of low noise floor and macro dynamics), but there are enough qualities in common that are equally good on both players (speed, resolution, PRAT) that I don't get restless as I did before when listening to cd's hankering ASAP to listen to lp's.
It seems that finally in the era of DCS Vivaldi, StahlTek, Zanden, Trinity, Eera etc digital has come of age, and can stand shoulder to shoulder (w/some jostling!) w/analog.

Interesting, level-headed and honest post. Digital has come to age and is IMHO the full equal to analog. I do however believe that it takes some times to optimize a system to play both well. I am not a fan of the "synergy" notion so dear to many audiophiles but one needs to pay attention to how the different components match/interact in order to get the best from , simultaneously, analog and digital. You seem to have found that. Congratulations.

 

[microstrip]

Frantz,
I am astonished - it seems we both agree with the original elitist views on digital and it seems you do not like the notion of synergy , but regonize it must applied. Great!

 

[edorr]

It seems that finally in the era of DCS Vivaldi, StahlTek, Zanden, Trinity, Eera etc digital has come of age, and can stand shoulder to shoulder (w/some jostling!) w/analog.

The evolution in digital is in full swing - price performance will improve to the point that where it used to cost $50K to get this SOTA digital, this will become a 4 figure proposition. The new Berkeley may have brought the price of SOTA digital down to $15K already. It will come down to $5K. SOTA analog will always remain insanely expensive.

 

[PeterA]

The evolution in digital is in full swing - price performance will improve to the point that where it used to cost $50K to get this SOTA digital, this will become a 4 figure proposition. The new Berkeley may have brought the price of SOTA digital down to $15K already. It will come down to $5K. SOTA analog will always remain insanely expensive.

edorr, you read my mind. As I was reading the posts before it, I was thinking of the Berkeley Ref DAC for $15K. Has anyone compared it to the Vivaldi or other DCS gear? I also agree with the idea that SOTA digital, over time, will start to come down while analog will only increase. Imagine when a SOTA digital source costs less than a great phono cable or cartridge, or even a mint condition box set of Beethoven's Piano Sonatas.

 

[microstrip]

The evolution in digital is in full swing - price performance will improve to the point that where it used to cost $50K to get this SOTA digital, this will become a 4 figure proposition. The new Berkeley may have brought the price of SOTA digital down to $15K already. It will come down to $5K. SOTA analog will always remain insanely expensive.

Audiophiles are really optimists -from time to time we are promised a new revolutionary lower cost Vivaldi replacement that significantly betters it and people like me started looking at used sites for a real bargain . I got tired of waiting ...

 

[edorr]

Audiophiles are really optimists -from time to time we are promised a new revolutionary lower cost Vivaldi replacement that significantly betters it and people like me started looking at used sites for a real bargain . I got tired of waiting ...

I swapped out my MSB for a PS Audio Directstream. It was close enough for me. I'm intrigued by the new Berkeley - may give it a whirl to see if and if so by how much it bests the PS audio.

 

[FrantzM]

Frantz,
I am astonished - it seems we both agree with the original elitist views on digital and it seems you do not like the notion of synergy , but regonize it must applied. Great!

Hold your horses !! Not "synergy", careful component matching is what I am advocating. We are mostly in agreement aside from semantics (Nothing's perfect )

@everybody

Berkeley Audio Design has been producing SOTA for many years now. I haven't yet heard their statement product but the DACII is one of the best DACs around. I have heard several TOL to have a very good idea of what is the SOTA ... the DACII is a superlative product. Unfortunately the audiophile tendency to equate price with performance would elicit the "For-its-price" condescension. An honest open-minded audition will quickly remove any doubts as for its superiority over many TOL products... This without the need for expensive femto-anything .

 

[bonzo75]

The cheaper dacs that might blow away TTs and high cost dacs are multichannel dacs like the exasound e28 that combine well with room corrections like Dirac to produce a much better sound despite the fact that they might sonically not be as good in 2-ch. Likewise, dacs like the Antelope Orion with 16 or 32 outs will be much better with the Auro and Atmos stuff.