Best music software?

[Legolas]

Actually, you didn't. So let me define it. It is a processing device that:
1. Organizes the contents of a files located on other devices into an organized local library.
2. Provides support (local or remote) for accessing those files and sending them to a DAC.
IMHO, there is no effect on subjective sound quality as long as (a) there are no data conversions, (b) the CPU/RAM is capable of the bandwidth, (c) the output connection is capable of the bandwidth and (d) the server, itself, is sufficiently quiet and isolated (both with regard to audible and electrical noise) from the the connected devices.

There is more going on. Data can be handled in 24/32 or 64 bit, it can be passed 'straight through' or messed within some way. The amount of noise in the power rails leaking into what is basically an analogue feed (USB/Ethernet) to

But, you haven't heard it so you're judging its sound quality based on no data. As for building a DIY server for under $4K, DIYer have been using that argument for years and most fail. I can build a DIY amp, or DAC, or speakers for a fraction of the cost from a Wilson, Pass or TotalDAC, will it be as good? Likely not. Net is - you are greatly underestimating the benefits of design engineering, validation and experience.

Also, I have Roon which has gotten better over the past handful of months but to my ears HQPlayer oversampling or not sounds more realistic. HQplayer is not just about oversampling, it has many filters, dither types, upsampling and PCM <-> DSD conversion. I haven't heard anything better and I've tried many.

I think there are 2 subjects here.
1. Data manipulated with either or both upsampling and filtering
2. Data sent as is (no manipulation) as bit perfect, same bit depth.

That is why I challenge why any server needs to be over 4K, to do what exactly?

On HQ player, I don't want or need any filtering, upsampling or data messing with, as I said. So in my case HQ player is not an improvement over Roon on sound quality. In your case it probably is as you clearly are doing processing of the data to affect what the DAC receives.

I will get some more demo's organised this year, and in fact are looking to distribute some for Spain. If any I find are improving the sound beyond what I have now, then that is great. But I still question why any music server needs to be above 4K.

 

[Koegz]

Micostrip, UPnP JR45, your dac does have the ability and connector, yes? You can install a jcat and I think sotm and pink faun JR45 bridged. I am sure you are aware and how easy they are to install. Linn Kinsky, jrivers, Roon and others software complete the project. Personally I just turn dac on and control everything else through jrivers. Easy peasy.
Having said that, AO(audiophile optimizer) is not Roon type software. In fact many use Roon in conjunction with AO. AO is music server software that restructures what a PC does and doesn’t do. Minimizing its activities to just what is required to stream the music from the server. It allows you to just hit power button to turn server off or on. Plus there also filters and such as well. I have never experienced AO personally myself but have read many views. I tend to take views skeptically. I have been doing this a while and have learned that some hear what they want and others are just negative. Need to weed through and have fun.
One way we are different I am a pop, Brit pop, rock, progressive rock, some metal(think “Rancid”), new wave, indie, folk, some punk, into female singers lately, I could go on. Favorite artists Springsteen, Beatles, Dylan, Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin, Cat Stevens, Neil Young, Guster, Lucinda Williams, Rolling Stones, Porcupine Tree(Steven Wilson) ETC
You get the point
p.kogan ??

 

[Koegz]

Francisco that is my understanding of what AO (audiophile optimizer) does. Opposite argument I have heard is that today’s computers are so fast that this makes no real difference. That the extra work is just a drop in the bucket. Who is correct? This is what I wish to know. I am strongly considering AO. Simplicity can’t be bad? Just a little afraid of installing it. I am not a computer “wiz”.
Hoping for a little honest input
p.kogan

 

[Kal Rubinson]

There is more going on. Data can be handled in 24/32 or 64 bit, it can be passed 'straight through' or messed within some way.

We stated that it was passed through.

The amount of noise in the power rails leaking into what is basically an analogue feed (USB/Ethernet) to

Yes, isolation from such influence was noted.

I think there are 2 subjects here.
1. Data manipulated with either or both upsampling and filtering
2. Data sent as is (no manipulation) as bit perfect, same bit depth.

As stated: 2

That is why I challenge why any server needs to be over 4K, to do what exactly?

Only for buffering of the datastream which for high resolution and/or multichannel is significantly greater than for CD quality.

 

[microstrip]

Micostrip, UPnP JR45, your dac does have the ability and connector, yes? You can install a jcat and I think sotm and pink faun JR45 bridged. I am sure you are aware and how easy they are to install. Linn Kinsky, jrivers, Roon and others software complete the project. Personally I just turn dac on and control everything else through jrivers. Easy peasy.
Having said that, AO(audiophile optimizer) is not Roon type software. In fact many use Roon in conjunction with AO. AO is music server software that restructures what a PC does and doesn’t do. Minimizing its activities to just what is required to stream the music from the server. It allows you to just hit power button to turn server off or on. Plus there also filters and such as well. I have never experienced AO personally myself but have read many views. I tend to take views skeptically. I have been doing this a while and have learned that some hear what they want and others are just negative. Need to weed through and have fun.
One way we are different I am a pop, Brit pop, rock, progressive rock, some metal(think “Rancid”), new wave, indie, folk, some punk, into female singers lately, I could go on. Favorite artists Springsteen, Beatles, Dylan, Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin, Cat Stevens, Neil Young, Guster, Lucinda Williams, Rolling Stones, Porcupine Tree(Steven Wilson) ETC
You get the point
p.kogan ??

Thanks. Googling your list of funny words I became even more confused. My desire was simple - a simple box, probably built around an NUC or something similar and a JCAT Fento card, that would be inserted in series with the RJ45 input of the Vivaldi upsampler. This box would simply eliminate all the noise and poor timing vestiges of the server, obliterating any vestige of how the files were stored, fetched and delivered.
It would create a bit exact, noiseless and perfect timing data stream to the renderer. It there any technical reason why such device can not be created? Are the Ethernet protocols intrinsically too noisy and time dirty to be used in current high-end DACs?

 

[microstrip]

Forgot to address this. Most of the Innuos servers have two Ethernet ports. So I have one cable coming from our router into the Innuos, and one (shorter, better) going from the Innuos into the Renderer.

Doing this is noticeably better than not doing it and just running two cables from the router, one to the Innuos and one to the Renderer. With the Statement, even more so.

Here's a photo of the back of one of the older servers:

Thanks. Did you try installing Roon on the Innuos Statement? Do you find that the sound quality using Roon is the same as using the Innuos native music player?

 

[Koegz]

The RJ45 on your dcs allows your dac and server to communicate together. Personally I don’t see the point. But then again I have never tried it. From my understanding it should deliver the same bit perfect signal to the dac. If you google UPnP it should describe the connection. I am pretty sure Roon isPUnP compatible.
https://lifehacker.com/5803975/what-is-upnp-and-how-do-i-use-it-to-stream-media-to-my-tv

 

[microstrip]

The RJ45 on your dcs allows your dac and server to communicate together. Personally I don’t see the point. But then again I have never tried it. From my understanding it should deliver the same bit perfect signal to the dac. If you google UPnP it should describe the connection. I am pretty sure Roon isPUnP compatible.
https://lifehacker.com/5803975/what-is-upnp-and-how-do-i-use-it-to-stream-media-to-my-tv

Yes, I have all the convenience in the world at my fingertip. But I feel it is not the ultimate sound quality when playing redbook from the server - it sounds significantly better from the transport - and sound quality varies a lot with server configuration, cables and tweaks.

 

[Koegz]

So you basically just rip cds? I download from hdtracks, acoustic sounds, individual bands websites, etc. For example Springsteen’s last world tour they did dsd 128 down loads. They had special equipment at all the concerts. It’s amazing, like being there. Porcupine Tree I got some great live concert in flac downloads from burningshed.com, etc. For me no reason for cds. Down loads sound better and if you don’t want to you don’t have to leave you’re couch. To each there own. ??

 

[microstrip]

So you basically just rip cds? I download from hdtracks, acoustic sounds, individual bands websites, etc. For example Springsteen’s last world tour they did dsd 128 down loads. They had special equipment at all the concerts. It’s amazing, like being there. Porcupine Tree I got some great live concert in flac downloads from burningshed.com, etc. For me no reason for cds. Down loads sound better and if you don’t want to you don’t have to leave you’re couch. To each there own. ??

I listen mainly to classical music, including ancient and contemporary. I pick it mostly by musical content, not by bit format. So I can not exclude 16/41 from the scene - I would say it represents about 90% of my listening time. And I am happy with it - even in redbook most of my recordings sound great.

Probably the current 5% of my listening do not deserve the interest or time I spend trying to perfect my computer audio - but Qobuz and audiophile curiosity keep me trying!

 

[asiufy]

Thanks. Googling your list of funny words I became even more confused. My desire was simple - a simple box, probably built around an NUC or something similar and a JCAT Fento card, that would be inserted in series with the RJ45 input of the Vivaldi upsampler. This box would simply eliminate all the noise and poor timing vestiges of the server, obliterating any vestige of how the files were stored, fetched and delivered.
It would create a bit exact, noiseless and perfect timing data stream to the renderer. It there any technical reason why such device can not be created? Are the Ethernet protocols intrinsically too noisy and time dirty to be used in current high-end DACs?

Again, forget about that stuff, unless you have the intellectual curiosity to pursue such things. If you just want to play music, get a Innuos.

cheers,
Alex

 

[asiufy]

Thanks. Did you try installing Roon on the Innuos Statement? Do you find that the sound quality using Roon is the same as using the Innuos native music player?

There is no native music player. It's either Roon or UPNP, which is archaic.
Roon comes pre-installed on all the Innuos products, so it's very easy. It's just a matter of inputting your credentials (if you need a trial, let me know and I'll hook you up).
If you already have a Roon library elsewhere (PC, NAS, etc.), it's very easy to migrate it to the Innuos, thanks to Roon's built-in backup/restore functionality, that works great. Again, if you need any help with that, let me know.

cheers,
Alex

 

[Kingsrule]

Alex,

You seem to be the primary dealer champion of Innuos and thank you for that. But many times it seems like u are in the dark on their product and direction. The grey area of these supposed "super servers" also applies to Pink Faun and SGM. It's almost like "spend $12k, you'll be happy" kind of approach.

The Innuos website is terrible, featuring disco'd MkII stuff and very little on the new products. Who cares about the Statement or other servers that u can't buy?
So what is the new line, complete technical specs, pictures of insides, etc. Pricing and lead time? Upgrade path? Service?
It seems like they are more interested in featuring their app and software, which has no appeal.

 

[asiufy]

I'm a dealer, not their marketing department. Innuos sent the first nor the only audio company with an outdated website...

I know the company is focused on launching the new mk3 series, so perhaps once those are shipping, they'll update the website.

As usual, those truly interested in the product can get information by calling, emailing, etc.

And I do have actual mk3 info up on my website.

 

[Kingsrule]

OK
Just checked ur website and saw the cut & paste Innuos info....I guess Innuos keeps everyone in the dark

 

[asiufy]

Not everyone.
As I said, people who are truly interested will get the information they need.

 

[Kingsrule]

Cute

WTF is the big secret?

 

[sbo6]

There is more going on. Data can be handled in 24/32 or 64 bit, it can be passed 'straight through' or messed within some way. The amount of noise in the power rails leaking into what is basically an analogue feed (USB/Ethernet) to


I think there are 2 subjects here.
1. Data manipulated with either or both upsampling and filtering
2. Data sent as is (no manipulation) as bit perfect, same bit depth.

That is why I challenge why any server needs to be over 4K, to do what exactly?

On HQ player, I don't want or need any filtering, upsampling or data messing with, as I said. So in my case HQ player is not an improvement over Roon on sound quality. In your case it probably is as you clearly are doing processing of the data to affect what the DAC receives.

I will get some more demo's organised this year, and in fact are looking to distribute some for Spain. If any I find are improving the sound beyond what I have now, then that is great. But I still question why any music server needs to be above 4K.

Saying “why any server needs to be over 4K, to do what exactly” is like saying, why does any car need to cost more than $5k, to do what exactly? All it has to do is turn left and right, move and brake.

I won’t spend the time educating what a computer does and the specifics of I/O, codecs, buffering, computing, packets, etc, Look it up and revisit your question.

 

[dr k]

Saying “why any server needs to be over 4K, to do what exactly” is like saying, why does any car need to cost more than $5k, to do what exactly? All it has to do is turn left and right, move and brake.

I won’t spend the time educating what a computer does and the specifics of I/O, codecs, buffering, computing, packets, etc, Look it up and revisit your question.

I think astrostar is mirroring the feelings of many audiophiles who have become numb to the often insane pricing in high end audio. People are not used to paying $12k+ for a computer, which is essentially a commodity. Not saying some of these server aren’t worth the price, but we’ve all seen how something basic like a cable or a fuse for example can get 10x to 100x markup just because it’s labeled ‘audiophile’.

 

[wisnon]

A modded server is not a "computer" per se. A computer is made for extremely efficient parallel processing of data. This is far from ideal for best quality music playback, which is a "live" streamed process, not particularly complex.
To get that good playback, its best to have great analog signal path, low jitter continuous rendering of the music stream. You need very clean power and priority only to music, subordianting all other processes of the 'Puter.

So timing (hence prioritization) and jitter (clock and byte structure accuracy) become the new mantra. As no audio company can efficiently build all this, most if not all the parts come from bog standard computer industry and are bent by use of hardware and software mods to become priority computer playback machine. Extremists run 2 computers to to this, one to serve up the music, control parameters and vive those nice album graphics and another minimalist one to simple pass thru the music signal to the dac. One wrinkle is that many prefer the direct windows sound to the indirect Linux sound. Fuller vs thinner.

To do all this takes a lot of R&D and some expensive exotic parts. If you want a beast to handle upsapling, you introduce more complexity.