Best Material for Filling Hollow Rack Legs?

ddk

Industry Expert
May 19, 2013
3,492
19
38
Utah
#21
In all sincerity I don't get the allure of Herzan brand for audiophiles. Why bother getting something that one already knows is going to have problems when there are great proven products from Stacore, CMS, SRA and even Sound Anchor for high quality products at bargain pricing given the context here?

david
 
Last edited:
May 19, 2014
714
3
18
Round Rock, TX
#22
The materials I know of are lead, sand, rice, steel shot (various sizes), clay, wood and a purpose - made material called Atacama Atabites. I am in a similar scenario but I have decided that for my DIY 1.5" thick shelved birch rack with steel posts that I will replace them and kill kill 2 birds with 1 stone by using dark walnut wood posts that will be 2" longer for the bottom shelf and 1" longer for the top shelf (better equipment clearance). Hope this helps.
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 25, 2015
5,209
86
48
Beverly Hills, CA
#23
Lava! ;)

is this an active stand?

david
No, not active. It is the same as the passive stand Christian had Herzan custom make, except I am specifying three inch square legs.
 

ddk

Industry Expert
May 19, 2013
3,492
19
38
Utah
#24
No, not active. It is the same as the passive stand Christian had Herzan custom make, except I am specifying three inch square legs.
Wall thickness also matters, specify 1/8"all around or alternatively look at Sound Anchors.

david
 

Stacore

Industry Expert
Feb 23, 2017
421
5
18
Gdańsk, Poland
#25
The legs of my current stand are three inches square. Many years ago I filled them up with sand to maximize damping and to minimize any resonance in the legs.

But sand is kind of messy to work with. What are other options for filling up hollow legs for damping purposes?

What about solid stainless steel ball bearings?

What about little balls of lead?
Dear Ron,

In general in vertical sections (legs) you want MASS! Sand is very good from our (and not only our) experience. It's messy but you do it once anyway.
The sand cannot be too fine as it will the solidify and start transmitting ultra low frequencies through it.
Ever walked on a beach and felt that dull thump on a solid sand parts? The sand particles need freedom to move one against each other and dissipate the vibration energy through friction.
Actually fine gravel is better and it is what's used e.g. for damping roller coaster structures.
Make sure it's dry - aquarium shops can help here. Lead shots is another great material, unfortunately unavailable in EU. Lead is
the best damped metal. By itself lead shots can be not so efficient as the
shots have a tendency to clutch together and you somewhat loose the friction action. Therefore I'd suggest mixing coarse sand with some
lead shots to break any homogenity of a single material alone. And add more mass :)
When filling the legs, do it 3/4 of the height max to leave some space for the filling to work.

Cheers,
 

tima

Industry Expert
Mar 4, 2014
299
30
28
#26
In all sincerity I don't get the allure of Herzan brand for audiophiles. Why bother getting something that one already knows is going to have problems when there are great proven products from Stacore, CMS, SR and even Sound Anchor for high quality products at bargain pricing given the context here?

david
Don't forget SRA.

Chris Brady (Teres) might recommend lead shot in oil. :-0
 

BruceD

VIP/Donor
Dec 13, 2013
908
3
18
#27
Jarek has the goods I'd go so far to say--- over the last 40 years I've filled the various Stands I've owned with

50% #10 lead shot and 50% coarse Silica sand leaving say 3 to 6 Inches Clear at the top of each strut.

Yes the pure lead shot is hard to obtain now but I've kept my original 40KG in containers (but not the sand!) I was lucky in the late 70's I lived in sight of a Shot Tower

and All gauges of Pellets were available for self loading then:)

I've tried Kitty Litter /Rice--- the above remains #1 choice

YVMV

BruceD
 

ddk

Industry Expert
May 19, 2013
3,492
19
38
Utah
#29
Don't forget SRA.

Chris Brady (Teres) might recommend lead shot in oil. :-0
SR was SRA before autocorrection, fixed it thanks.
david
 
Jun 23, 2015
73
0
6
Brisbane
#30
Jarek has the goods I'd go so far to say--- over the last 40 years I've filled the various Stands I've owned with

50% #10 lead shot and 50% coarse Silica sand leaving say 3 to 6 Inches Clear at the top of each strut.

Yes the pure lead shot is hard to obtain now but I've kept my original 40KG in containers (but not the sand!) I was lucky in the late 70's I lived in sight of a Shot Tower

and All gauges of Pellets were available for self loading then:)

I've tried Kitty Litter /Rice--- the above remains #1 choice

YVMV

BruceD
Bruce - you can still buy pellets in Aus from gunshops - I would be amazed if that is not the case in the USA - when I used spherical glass basting beads in the mix the idea was to prevent the particles from locking together which they do when they are asymmetrical like sand or lead shot

no one ever does comparative analysis of these options as it is a huge project - you just choose your poison and are pleased with your results

however I am sure that suspending lead shot in a flexible compound that also adheres to the walls of the tube would be the best option

I agree with ddk that wall thickness is important and would go harder - 5mm or higher - the material cost is small compared to the labour - the only issue is moving it after you build it :)

also if you were thinking about modes you might want to make the section rectangular - if you were thinking about stiffness you would make it round

I really do not understand why you would leave any portion unfilled

it can be a rabbit hole

Phil
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 25, 2015
5,209
86
48
Beverly Hills, CA
#31
Wall thickness also matters, specify 1/8"all around or alternatively look at Sound Anchors.

david
David, I have no particular affinity for the stands of Herzan, but I ordered a TS-140 for the Io control unit. The active isolation platform should sit on a solid surface (not “filter” shelves from CMS or HRS, and no cushion shelves by SRA). Based on Christian’s report on his Herzan stand it seems to be pretty solid, and I thought I would increase its rigidity further by specifying 3” square box legs.

So since I wanted a simple rigid stand for the Io for the active isolation platform, it made sense to get a second stand matching the first one. That’s all. This is how I came up with the plan to order two custom Herzan stands.

Actually, I really like the audio racks you have, but you told me that company is out of business?
 

SMKL

New Member
Feb 5, 2018
76
0
0
#32
Last edited:
Jul 18, 2014
614
32
28
#33
Another +1 on a shot plus sand mix for infill for stands with square hollow section steel posts.

A mate who had gone into a bit of a side business of fabricating custom sound anchor and target style stands back in the late eighties early 90s made me a set for my Proac Response 2s, he then suggested I try a 60/40 sand and lead or steel shot mix as fill.

I took his advice so can’t say that I have tried any other infill combinations or quantities but they were fantastic in use. Recently used the same combination on the Harbeth 30.1s and they also sounded wonderful and I have heard these in comparison with some of the various wood stands available and the sand shot filled steel stands gave a better balance overall, huge life and immediacy plus they dug more deeply into the lower register and were more coherent overall top to bottom as well.

Just about to do myself some custom steel stands for my new Harby 40.2s and I will aim to fill these with a sand shot combo as well though if I get time I might play with some extra additives like crushed tourmaline and copper tubing and sheeting and maybe constrained layer damping for the top plate with either copper or calcite crystal, and marble or glass slabs or delignit panzerholz.
 
Jul 18, 2014
614
32
28
#34
I have been thinking of damping a pair of hollow steel stands but unfortunately, it’s completely sealed. Has anyone tried using damping pads such as Dynamat to strategically stick onto the sides/base of the stands? http://www.dynamat.com/ I am likely to head in that direction.

This? http://www.dynamat.com/architectural-home/architectural-home-dynamat-xtreme/

http://www.dynamat.com/automotive-and-transportation/car-audio/dynamat-xtreme/
Could you try getting them drilled so you can fill them and have a listen, even get something so you can then plug them with a stainless threaded diode so you could add spikes at the same point. Either way I’d drill them and play with some sand to start with.
 

SMKL

New Member
Feb 5, 2018
76
0
0
#35
Could you try getting them drilled so you can fill them and have a listen, even get something so you can then plug them with a stainless threaded diode so you could add spikes at the same point. Either way I’d drill them and play with some sand to start with.
Thanks
 

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