best cost no object, cables

[andromedaaudio]

I had the exact same experience with power conditioners. Heck, a friend visited his dealer and the dealer told him his 2 year old amps were junk. No mincing words. Told him they were junk and needed to be traded in to get the new upgraded version.

If i was a dealer i d say the same thing ,whether i meant it or not lol.
How am i gonna stay in business otherwise .
And If i dont do it the other dealer will do it just to make a sale..
How are you gonna' stay in business if you just say to clients they have great stuff and dont need to buy anything else

 

[facten]

If i was a dealer i d say the same thing ,whether i meant it or not lol.
How am i gonna stay in business otherwise .
And If i dont do it the other dealer will do it just to make a sale..
How are you gonna' stay in business if you just say to clients they have great stuff and dont need to buy anything else

Might just be me, but I think if you were a dealer and had that approach that you'd turn off customers and would go out of business. I expect a dealer to give me information and answer my questions, not belittle my choices and decisions.

 

[nirodha]

If i was a dealer i d say the same thing ,whether i meant it or not lol.
How am i gonna stay in business otherwise .

tells a lot about your character. An ethical dealer would give the customer the opportunity to compare the new and old component. And only at the request of the customer. So only if the customer was looking for an upgrade. If this is not the case, the dealer should shut up instead of destroying the joy of ownership.

 

[Kingrex]

If i was a dealer i d say the same thing ,whether i meant it or not lol.
How am i gonna stay in business otherwise .
And If i dont do it the other dealer will do it just to make a sale..
How are you gonna' stay in business if you just say to clients they have great stuff and dont need to buy anything else

If the dealer was the source of those amps I would have looked squarely at the dealer (in person or virtually) and simply said "Why did you sell them to me?"

I asked him straight up when they changed power conditioners why he was saying the old stuff was no good.

He did some vodo waving of the hands and tried to hypnotize me, then said they are always assessing whats best and what products are rising to the top to provide us the best selection possible.

That same store is so busy a sales man helped me for about 5 minutes on some $2k headphones, then said he had to go as he had much larger projects to take care of. He was just being honest. If I was a commissioned sales man, I would do the same. People need to feed themselves. And people are still dropping massive money on home theater. And some 2 channel.

 

[morricab]

a

For my money, Schnerzinger and Inakustik go above and beyond.
If I were to ever spend that kind of dough on cables I’d go with Inakustik Air Silver.

i now use the Inakustik Air Silver reference between my DAC and amp. Very good resolution and top to bottom balance and yet still quite smooth. Very dynamic...

 

[DoctorWhy]

Having tested pure silver, copper, expensive, cheap cables i ended up in using 16 Neotech 18 AWG solid core pure copper NEOTECH SOCT-14 without termination as speaker cable. This is the most resolving, dynamic and realistic sound. 8 per side, 4 per pole. All cables must have a certain distance (Air is the best isolator). I put black cable coating on.

You mustn´t change the setup often as the connection is a bit tricky and you shouldn´t be bothered by the number of cables.
With interconnect, i swear on Neotech Nemoi-3220.
But all is a matter of taste as i really like a very fast and musical presentation. And no, i don´t deal with Neotech

I made a set of XLR interconnects with Neotech NEI 2001 Silver cable and NeoTech XLR connectors soldered with 10% silver solder. They sound very natural and musical. Recently I demoed a pair of STAGE 3 concepts Gorgon XLR's. The Gorgons sound a little better. Slightly more air, micro dynamics, and more bass, but the delta was small. The NeoTech cost $1250. The Gorgon is $9100 at half price. I am not sure it is worth the difference. I want to try AQ Dragons to see if they split the difference in both cost and sound.

 

[DoctorWhy]

I asked him straight up when they changed power conditioners why he was saying the old stuff was no good.

He did some vodo waving of the hands and tried to hypnotize me, then said they are always assessing whats best and what products are rising to the top to provide us the best selection possible.

That same store is so busy a sales man helped me for about 5 minutes on some $2k headphones, then said he had to go as he had much larger projects to take care of. He was just being honest. If I was a commissioned sales man, I would do the same. People need to feed themselves. And people are still dropping massive money on home theater. And some 2 channel.

You should name this dealer. He is an ass. Who is it?

 

[Karmacoma]

Argento FMR extreme edition

 

[Kingrex]

I don't like that store for the attitide most sales people there have. But at the same time, I understand changing product line and focusing on your $80k customer and not the $2k.

 

[DaveC]

I made a set of XLR interconnects with Neotech NEI 2001 Silver cable and NeoTech XLR connectors soldered with 10% silver solder. They sound very natural and musical. Recently I demoed a pair of STAGE 3 concepts Gorgon XLR's. The Gorgons sound a little better. Slightly more air, micro dynamics, and more bass, but the delta was small. The NeoTech cost $1250. The Gorgon is $9100 at half price. I am not sure it is worth the difference. I want to try AQ Dragons to see if they split the difference in both cost and sound.

Just FYI my DSR UPOCC silver ribbon interconnects are the same basic design as Neotech NEMOI but in 17 gauge. This gives a bit fuller sound, more body, a touch warmer and I use top end WBT silver RCA or Furutech Carbon/Stainless XLR plugs.

 

[highstream]

@Kingrex To me, that's how you lose some eventual $80k customers. For me, it's happened in a different way more than once: I walk in, a tall, older executive/professor looking type, and talk to them about my needs, let's say help with positioning my speakers or with advice on room acoustics. Then I ask to hear the best system, pointing to its room. They either deflect my request or, in one case, they sit me down instead in front of the low end one in the hallway just inside the front door. To me, it doesn't sound that good, so I learn nothing. Then maybe they come by, after keeping me waiting for months working on bigger money jobs, and help reposition my speakers and do a great job. I talk to them a bit about other work, perhaps involving a component purchase. But then the bill for the repositioning comes and it's over 50% higher than what they told me in the store. I say ok, they did a great job so I'll pay it, while politely bringing the discrepancy to their attention. But they don't respond, not even to acknowledge it, acknowledge me. Result: I don't return. In the meantime, my relatively low cost system gradually turns into one with a retail value up towards that higher figure you mention, but without their getting the business. Moral: every customer counts.

 

[Digital Buddha]

I would say zenwave cables are as good as any ive tested at any price range. I also like siltech.

 

[highstream]

I would say zenwave cables are as good as any ive tested at any price range. I also like siltech.

You haven’t identified what you’ve tested, what price range you’ve tested in and what was just as good as Zenwave. How about filling in the blanks (btw, I have a custom Zenwave power cord that I’m happy with).

 

[Digital Buddha]

You haven’t identified what you’ve tested, what price range you’ve tested in and what was just as good as Zenwave. How about filling in the blanks (btw, I have a custom Zenwave power cord that I’m happy with).

there is a little more context in this post. sorry didnt know i was required to write a full report in every post i make.

What Brands of Cables to Fans of High-Efficiency Speakers Use? (Not Hi-fi Sounding!)

After trying too many speaker cables to remember, including many DIY efforts, on my 99db speakers, I settled on two Audio Note Litz cables—-SPx silver litz and ISIS copper Litz. They sound quite different and each has its good points relative to the other. I tend to listen with one set for a...

www.whatsbestforum.com

 

[highstream]

After looking at that post, my questions largely remain (which specific models of each brand you evaluated is obviously critical). I do know one thing: Dave now advertises his cables as tonally neutral (he’s not alone in that, as that’s become popular in the past several years). While I don’t know if they actually are — mine is a short DC cord for an LPS — I and many others steer clear of or minimize what’s called “neutral,” in favor of some degree of warmth in their systems (I’ve returned or sold a number of neutral cables, and am not looking for more). In conjunction with system synergy, a big part of your preference for Zenwave over others seemingly had to do with your tonal tastes. A chacun son gout.

 

[Digital Buddha]

After looking at that post, my questions largely remain (which specific models of each brand you evaluated is obviously critical). I do know one thing: Dave now advertises his cables as tonally neutral (he’s not alone in that, as that’s become popular in the past several years). While I don’t know if they actually are — mine is a short DC cord for an LPS — I and many others steer clear of or minimize what’s called “neutral,” in favor of some degree of warmth un their systems (I’ve returned or sold a number of neutral cables, and am not looking for more). In conjunction with system synergy, a big part of your preference for Zenwave over others seemingly had to do with your tonal tastes. A chacun son gout.

I agree completely what struck me about daves cables is the Smoothness and Clarity you get without losing the fullness of the bass and midrange even his silver cables have a touch of warmth imo. Mostly Neutral but never cool.

 

[PeterA]

How do we define a neutral cable? I hear some warmth in the tone of live wood stringed instruments and piano. If I do not hear that quality with a particular cable, I would not consider it to be “neutral”. Additionally, the more different a cable allows recordings to sound, the better.

 

[highstream]

@PeterA I agree about the tone of many instruments, but the terms have more to do with discussing reproduction, which is necessarily different than live performance. In their listening rooms, some people give priority to listening to the hardware, or audiophile “sound effects,” which typically go with a “neutral” tonality by design (developers always voice their products). Others like those qualities, but first in the context of a modestly warm tonality. Both musical experience and hearing ability especially come into play in shaping these preferences. I wonder, though, how many of those with reasonably good hearing who prefer neutral at home like it when concert sound lacks some degree of warmth.

 

[microstrip]

How do we define a neutral cable? I hear some warmth in the tone of live wood stringed instruments and piano. If I do not hear that quality with a particular cable, I would not consider it to be “neutral”. Additionally, the more different a cable allows recordings to sound, the better.

Should we consider that no cable should be the reference for a neutral cable? I have tried it using monoblock amplifiers and was disappointed - I preferred a lot the sound of a good speaker cable.

IMHO there is no such a thing as a neutral cable, although we feel tempted to say that our preferred ones are "neutral" and our neighbor cable is "not as neutral as our".

Do you also apply your criteria of the "more different XXX allows recordings to sound, the better" to other types of gear?

 

[PeterA]

Should we consider that no cable should be the reference for a neutral cable? I have tried it using monoblock amplifiers and was disappointed - I preferred a lot the sound of a good speaker cable.

IMHO there is no such a thing as a neutral cable, although we feel tempted to say that our preferred ones are "neutral" and our neighbor cable is "not as neutral as our".

Do you also apply your criteria of the "more different XXX allows recordings to sound, the better" to other types of gear?

What criteria can one use to define neutral? How do we know? Relative to what? I agree it is very hard to determine what is neutral. More differences from different recordings helps me get closer to the cable I want. I do not know what you do.

I know different recordings sound different. I do not want my gear to gloss over these differences by making recordings sound similar. I experienced that with certain cables and sold them. Same with cords and in wall wires. Other gear is the same. This is a cable thread, no?

How do we define best cables? Cost no object is easy, it is simply cost of cable? Best is very different. Different for everyone according to criteria they use.