Best capacitors for power amps...

[Stereophonic]

Hi everybody.

My Classé Omega Monoblocks have a few years and i was thinking about changing capacitors by new ones.


Now, thanks to an accident, i have no choice....


This model is Nichicon LS 1000uf 100V.
Any experience with other capacitors? What would be your recommendation? Change all of them by same model or new model one?
Thank you in advance.....

 

[Stereophonic]

My Tad C600 preamp uses Nippon Chemi-Con.


And Nichicon in Tad amps....

 

[mtemur]

Once it was black gate accepted as the best capacitor by many audiophiles now I don’t know which. IMHO it’s safe and a better approach to replace them with the exact same ones if they’re still available.

 

[Cellcbern]

Hi everybody.

My Classé Omega Monoblocks have a few years and i was thinking about changing capacitors by new ones.

View attachment 106893
Now, thanks to an accident, i have no choice....

View attachment 106891
This model is Nichicon LS 1000uf 100V.
Any experience with other capacitors? What would be your recommendation? Change all of them by same model or new model one?
Thank you in advance.....

I've had integrated amps (Pathos, Unison, Jolida) upgraded (based on factory and my tech's recommendations) using Duelund Cast PIO Tinned Copper Foil, Mundorf MCap Supreme Silver/Gold/Oil, Jupiter Copper Foil Paper and Wax, and Audyn True Copper Max, with great results.

FYI: Capacitor test/comparison/ranking which is helpful in identifying sonic characteristics. While the focus of the test was use in crossovers it does cover capacitor models intended for use in amplifiers:

Humble Homemade Hifi - Cap Test

Humble Homemade Hifi - Very high quality loudspeaker kits, components, upgrades, modifications and custom solutions.

www.humblehomemadehifi.com

 

[Sablon Audio]

I would suggest you reach out to Nick at hificollective.co.uk for his recommendations on electrolytics. He is very knowledgeable about the latest and greatest.

 

[Cellcbern]

Hi everybody.

My Classé Omega Monoblocks have a few years and i was thinking about changing capacitors by new ones.

View attachment 106893
Now, thanks to an accident, i have no choice....

View attachment 106891
This model is Nichicon LS 1000uf 100V.
Any experience with other capacitors? What would be your recommendation? Change all of them by same model or new model one?
Thank you in advance.....

Not familiar with the architecture of this amp. But if you are going to "open it up" for modifications why not do a little more, e.g., upgrade internal wiring, key resistors, diodes, etc. If you have capacitors in the signal path then (assuming space permits) why not upgrade them to one of the top tier film caps?

FYI: https://www.psaudio.com/blogs/pauls-posts/film-caps

 

[marty]

When I built crossovers, Black Gates were considered the best caps out there but were D/C'd around 2006. I recently read of a new electrolytic that is supposed to be today's Black Gate,, but can't recall the brand. Kaisei??

If you're doing a one off, I'd look for BG's. They're available, just costly. For low voltage, I loved the N series in parallel/series configuration to reduce ESR. For high voltage, NH and K are excellent.

What's so special about Back Gates?

ASE-Audiotuning

Tipps und Bauteile zum Audiotuning, Black Gate Kondensatoren, Verstärkerbausätze, L-Clock etc.

www.audiotuning.de

 

[bonzo75]

When I built crossovers, Black Gates were considered the best caps out there but were D/C'd around 2006. I recently read of a new electrolytic that is supposed to be today's Black Gate,, but can't recall the brand. Kaisei??

If you're doing a one off, I'd look for BG's. They're available, just costly. For low voltage, I loved the N series in parallel/series configuration to reduce ESR. For high voltage, NH and K are excellent.

audio note Kaisei. You can still find some used BG and the Elna Cerafine

but many seem use these in power supplies rather than signal path

 

[Stereophonic]

Thank you everybody for your answers.
I’ve been told by Classé SAT to keep same brand.
At same time, an amp designer has recommended me Vishay ones.

I’ve measured current 1000uf Nichicon capacitance and it has lost 15%. Now it has 850 uf.
So i have to change all capacitors of each monoblock.
64 units 1000uf/100V
64 units 5600uf/100V
358.400 uf on each power supply unit and 32000uf on transistor’s filtering
No jokes here…
Time to improve internal cabling?
Yes. I’ll do a full restore….
Left ones ( Power supply section ) are Nippon Chemi-Con

 

[marty]

Thank you everybody for your answers.
I’ve been told by Classé SAT to keep same brand.
At same time, an amp designer has recommended me Vishay ones.
View attachment 107200
I’ve measured current 1000uf Nichicon capacitance and it has lost 15%. Now it has 850 uf.
So i have to change all capacitors of each monoblock.
64 units 1000uf/100V
64 units 5600uf/100V
No jokes here…
Time to improve internal cabling?
Yes. I’ll do a full restore….
Left ones are Nippon Chemi-Con
View attachment 107201

Be aware that the Vishay spec for that cap is +/- 20% so your cap may not have lost anything since it was installed. Caps are not like resistors where tolerances of 5% are common, and 1% is often specified for critical circuits. You can order that cap from Mouser and see what a new one measures. It may indeed be 850uF!

Vishay is a very interesting company see post #13

Vishay Z-Foil vs Audio Note Non-Magnetic Resistors

I'd like to upgrade stock resistors in my tube preamp (ARC RefAnn) and have narrowed down the choice to two manufacturers: Vishay (Z-Foil) and Audio Note (non-magnetic). Did anyone compare Z-Foil with the best from Audio Note in your modding projects? If so, what did each contribute to the...

www.whatsbestforum.com

They started out a niche resistor manufacturer for Israeli military equipment and now are like the Borg. "resistance is futile. You will be assimilated". They have since acquired dozens of companies are a massive component vendor of just about everything.

 

[Stereophonic]

Thank you Marty.
Until i know, if it has 1000uf it has to measure 1000uf or nearer.
I’m going to respect original brand capacitors design.
Anyway, i still have to send amps to Classé SAT to have a right opinion about real capacitance state.

 

[Barry]

Good choice. Like others have suggested, I'd stick with original replacements. As Marty says, ratings of +/- 20% are typical. I'm not sure I'd replace the cabling if you liked how it sounded originally.

I have an hybrid amp with a 160,000 uF BG power supply - it's sublime. However, even if you could find and afford to replace the current caps with Black Gate FKs (doubtful), these are getting pretty old by now and there's some question about whether some still offered for sale are fakes. Kaisei? For me, no way.

 

[Alrainbow]

A few thoughts on cap replacement
do you have a pic or f the entire amp ?
the pic looks like bypass caps or local caps near drivers or output devices.
caps can loose but also gain depending on what and how they are measured.
also they have a plus and minus tolerance rating
I can’t see this in the pics
the brand and many other factors effect the sound as it is now.
so may change depending on the make and model used to replace them.
there is a gate code on them this helps to know how old. On a class A amp the caps are always on and getting cooked as well. The working temp on the caps helps to know more about the replacement caps to try.
give us some feed
Back on my questions if possible
some times advice even from makers can be misleading overall.
many Krell amps of old get sold and new owner hates them lol. Were they recapped ? We’re all the caps changed. what caps were used
just saying
I did an amp for someone the maker said caps are fine just measure voltage and ripple
how wrong this is. I did the large main caps
First amp had no improvement
Changed the local driver and output caps wow
Amp was an amazing sound now.

 

[dcathro]

As a long term DIY enthusiast, I can tell you that the choice of electrolytic caps in power supplies can have a profound effect on the sound.

Also it is not just about choosing the "greatest" cap available, it is about finding the cap that works best in the circuit.

I have Black Gates (non polar superE) in my preamp power supply because nothing else came close, however, in my power amp Black Gates just didn't work and I have Nichicon Super Throughs.

I would either let the manufacturer replace the caps or stick with something very similar to what is in there unless you want to change the sound of the amps.

When I first got into DIY I went crazy buying the "Best" parts replacing just about everything in my then (Boulder, Manley, Krell) equipment. I learnt the hard way that part selection is almost as important as circuit design and ended up with crap sounding gear that had no resale value.

 

[Stereophonic]

Amp is already in SAT.

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dbtronic.es

First things to do, measuring current capacitors to value changing everyone or only damaged.
Checking BIAS to adjust it.
Cleaning every connectors.

 

[Atmasphere]

You want a good quality electrolytic capacitor.

You've got good recommendations. As long as you keep the same values, it won't matter much which cap you get. Nichicon, Nippon Denso, Nippon Chemi-Con, Vishay... all good parts.

The amp uses a large amount of them in order to reduce the bad things that single large parts might have- like extended resistance, dissipation factor and so on. In the end you'll find that obsessing about the part will win you nothing- as long as they are good, they will do the job. You want a good part simply because it will hold up better than a cheap one.

 

[DasguteOhr]

desolder one capacitor, then measure capacitance and esr. if that has the nominal value solder it back in. if you see any abnormalities a bulge in the cover of the capacitor replace it. Otherwise, screw it back together and enjoy the music. It is a misconception that the capacitors need to be replaced after a few years. I have had devices here that were more than 30 years old and the capacitors were faultless.
Exsample 35 years sony amp elna capacitor 22000uf, 9.1milliohm esr really good.
P.S
a good radio tv repair shop will do that for you a check. before shelling out oodles of money for a bartering orgy.

 

[DMSB]

If you want the best, get some of the caps with newer high temperature, high stability, long life, low ESR electrolytes such as:

Nippon Chemi-Con (aka United Chemi-Con)
LXS
TXH

KEMET
ALF80
ALC80

Rubycon
VXG
VXH

Of course you should specify a minimum of the original capacitors voltage rating (more is OK) and value (most of the time more is OK but not always).

 

[Stereophonic]

This amp is really a beast.
The issue is in one channel with 8 caps in a PCB and another PCB with voltage adjustment potentiometer.
So it has two channels with voltage adjustment potentiometerand two more with BIAS adjustment potentiometer.



6 caps has been removed and measured with this results:
869, 862, 874, 848, 859, 871uF
Caps are in Nichicon -20% value range conditions, so it has no sense to change rest of channel’s caps.
Dissweld needs more temperature than weld and PCB could be damaged in this process.
Some pics sent by my friends of https://dbtronic.es/
Official Classé SAT.

Voltage adjustment potentiometer removed:



Transistors and main PCB removed from cooling metal unit:


PCB ready to change capacitors:

 

[Atmasphere]

6 caps has been removed and measured with this results:
869, 862, 874, 848, 859, 871uF
Caps are in Nichicon -20% value range conditions, so it has no sense to change rest of channel’s caps.

Definitely a bit of work.

Its not the value of the cap that is important when dealing with older caps. Its how much power they are dissipating! IOW, they can have the same value, but consume power. In doing so they will also warm up. The danger is always that in drawing just a little bit more power, the load on the power transformer slowly increases, eventually causing it to fail.