Classification of some top SS amps (brands)

Verdier

Well-Known Member
Oct 7, 2018
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Hi!

Note beforehand: no, I'm not looking for new amps, especially SS amps - I'm just curious!

I read here and there in wbf about some solid state amps: Boulder, CH Precision and many more. Often people just report about how great the amp sounds in their own system. What I miss a bit is a general assessment in which cases which top-amps should be shortlisted and for what reason. I myself don't have much experience with them; I've barely heard SS amps in comparison so far.

It may be that this does not interest someone or he thinks that you can not generally classify. Then I ask him very much not to write here. ;) Thank you!

I would be interested in the differences of the following brands:

- Analog Domain
- Boulder
- CH Precision
- Gryphon
- Robert Koda
- Pilium
- Soulution
- Vitus

I realize that there can be different model lines that may sound different. Then you can simply write with which specific model you have made what experience. And no, I'm not concerned with which amp can drive the very worst speaker or any other special cases - it's simply about average speakers that could just as easily be driven by any other amp. I would find the following criteria interesting:

- Neutrality
- resolution
- stage imaging
- physical presentation ("body") and authenticity
- other strengths and weaknesses

It would be best if someone, when describing the sound of one of the above amps, could at least relate it to one or two other brands. In principle, however, it is also sufficient to address strengths and weaknesses in key words.

I am very curious to see your opinions.

Thanks!
 
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Another Johnson

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Jan 13, 2022
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Some reviewers have remarked that the Burmester amps are solid state that appeals to tube amp aficionados. After an extended love affair with 21st century CJ and ARC amps, I recognize my own reaction in those words. I am joyfully surprised with the performance of the Burmester 911 mk3 in my system.
 

sujay

Member Sponsor
May 5, 2012
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Some reviewers have remarked that the Burmester amps are solid state that appeals to tube amp aficionados. After an extended love affair with 21st century CJ and ARC amps, I recognize my own reaction in those words. I am joyfully surprised with the performance of the Burmester 911 mk3 in my system.
My Burmester 911mk3 monos are 12-14 years old and my 088 preamp almost 15! I just don’t feel any compulsion to change and I have heard a few, if not all out there…..
 

gleeds

Industry Expert
May 29, 2018
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Add darTZeel and D'Agostino to this list of highly regarded SS amplifiers. No doubt these brands have their own characteristics so the better question might be I will pair them with X speakers, as well as listing your sonic priorities. There is a German audio magazine that ends its reviews with a grid to show where each component is subjectively on a neutrality scale which I find interesting. I'll have to look for it and pass it on here as it may address your question in a more succinct way. Speaker pairing and listening priorities will of course be an important factor.
 

itay123

Well-Known Member
Mar 5, 2023
169
259
65
HI!
unfortunately It will be difficult to almost impossible for you to get an answer here,
Because every owner of A Component from one of the brands on the list, will say that his is the "Best and most worthy" , and all the superlatives that exist.
I can tell you that I have checked quite a few "claim the crown", whether at my place or at the local distributors,
HAD brands in the high series/Top such as D'Agostino, KARAN, Pass Labs, Accuphase, and I have heard from the various distributors Several of the brands you mentioned, including many others,
My choice after comparing at my place in a Session vs 3 different companies that were specified on a particularly long and exhausting day, I chose PILIUM - simply - played more orderly, clearer, cleaner, defined and deeper Presentation Without losing for a moment, naturalness no matter what Gain or musical genre I play.

But a lot depends on the other components, The quality and type of speakers, the cables, the space and countless other variables that none of us know.

If you are in my area, would love to host you and let you be impressed.

Whatever you choose, I wish you an enjoyable journey and lots of success and insights in the future.
 

Verdier

Well-Known Member
Oct 7, 2018
135
143
148
Thank you for your contribution. You are wrong. I am not looking for new amps. I'm just not familiar with many SS Amps brands at all and that's why I want to get a little overview.

The constellation Kawero - Pilium seems to me at first view a little "special". Previously, Kawero has primarily demonstrated tube amps or with less powerful ss amps. But if it fits so well sonically, it is of course understandable to choose such strong amps. One must not be deterred by the (from my point of view somewhat brutal optics of the power amps). ;)
 

itay123

Well-Known Member
Mar 5, 2023
169
259
65
Thank you for your contribution. You are wrong. I am not looking for new amps. I'm just not familiar with many SS Amps brands at all and that's why I want to get a little overview.

The constellation Kawero - Pilium seems to me at first view a little "special". Previously, Kawero has primarily demonstrated tube amps or with less powerful ss amps. But if it fits so well sonically, it is of course understandable to choose such strong amps. One must not be deterred by the (from my point of view somewhat brutal optics of the power amps). ;)

The Kaiser Kawero Classic is demonstrated with several amplification "technologies", the most important of which is, the quality of the amplification, far beyond the technology in which it is found.
 

Verdier

Well-Known Member
Oct 7, 2018
135
143
148
Burmester 911 Mk3 monos. End of games at my ears!
Hi!

Thank you for your contribution. But here in the thread it is not about throwing names around, but to describe the sound characteristics concretely, see initial post. Thank you very much.
 

gian60

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2016
2,508
1,951
343
Over CH that I have and love, one of the best amp listening in my life is Thrax Hero's mk II,input 1 tube,output mosfet with silver output transformer,
very natural,transperent,musically,bass very deep and controlled and sweet and very open high with high resulution.
Price list 40.000 euro
 

KeithR

VIP/Donor
May 7, 2010
5,174
2,860
1,898
Encino, CA
Some reviewers have remarked that the Burmester amps are solid state that appeals to tube amp aficionados. After an extended love affair with 21st century CJ and ARC amps, I recognize my own reaction in those words. I am joyfully surprised with the performance of the Burmester 911 mk3 in my system.
I’ve never found Burmester to remotely sound like tubes, for good or bad. And I’m more on the SS camp these days.
 

Lagonda

VIP/Donor
Feb 3, 2014
3,514
4,842
1,255
Denmark
HI!
unfortunately It will be difficult to almost impossible for you to get an answer here,
Because every owner of A Component from one of the brands on the list, will say that his is the "Best and most worthy" , and all the superlatives that exist.
I can tell you that I have checked quite a few "claim the crown", whether at my place or at the local distributors,
HAD brands in the high series/Top such as D'Agostino, KARAN, Pass Labs, Accuphase, and I have heard from the various distributors Several of the brands you mentioned, including many others,
My choice after comparing at my place in a Session vs 3 different companies that were specified on a particularly long and exhausting day, I chose PILIUM - simply - played more orderly, clearer, cleaner, defined and deeper Presentation Without losing for a moment, naturalness no matter what Gain or musical genre I play.

But a lot depends on the other components, The quality and type of speakers, the cables, the space and countless other variables that none of us know.

If you are in my area, would love to host you and let you be impressed.

Whatever you choose, I wish you an enjoyable journey and lots of success and insights in the future.
I am curious, where are you located ? As with so many others, this info is missing from in your "about". :)
 

christoph

Well-Known Member
Dec 11, 2015
4,686
4,074
825
Principality of Liechtenstein
Over CH that I have and love, one of the best amp listening in my life is Thrax Hero's mk II,input 1 tube,output mosfet with silver output transformer,
very natural,transperent,musically,bass very deep and controlled and sweet and very open high with high resulution.
Price list 40.000 euro
Nice to have you back, Gian :cool:
 

DasguteOhr

Well-Known Member
Sep 26, 2013
2,441
2,621
645
Germany
Ypsilon Aelius mono amps with c3g input tubes is superb amp.my favorite.sounds so muscular and alive. the bass is fantastically structured down to the last detail. the version with input tube 6c45pi is crap. 413ips.promo__0.jpg s-l1600 (1).jpg

From above would always prefer gryphon. very musical sound is what turns me on the most.
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
14,430
2,518
1,448
I have heard Soulution 5 series, Boulder (2060 generation so much older), Gryphon (owned Mephisto) and Robert Koda (own K160s today). All of these were either in our system or in a system very very similar at the store which I have known for nearly 20 years (same speakers as at home, same cables, different source (DCS Vivaldi vs Zanden 4-box at home). *BTW, I have also heard Constellation (excellent) and Ypsilon SET Reference Monos...but since you did not ask, will not take up any more air time on those.)

My observations:

- Soulution was very evenly balanced, powerful and you knew it had detail. It was subtle, but I think the 'messaging' in the signal was that the musical detail was just a touch (I mean a touch) highlighted so you knew it was there. By touch I mean, when you heard it, the detail retrieval occurred to you. You noticed it. In the end, I really respected it just did not feel passionately about it.

- Boulder was clean, effortlessly powerful and ultra q-u-i-e-t. I admired the fact that it came across as utterly unflappable in the sound room...but it even appeared to be the kind of amp you could drop down the stairs (so heavy!) and it would still work perfectly. Built like a tank and well built. And that kind of solidity, confidence also came thru in its presentation...again utterly unflappable by any signal, no matter how powerful, how percussive, deep, high, loud...or sometimes equally...insanely soft (almost missable without a super low noise floor). You felt someone was giving you the unvarnished truth...I will come back to this point later...and so it would seem that is entirely Boulder's goal.

- Gryphon. I have owned the original Antileon, Colosseum and then the Mephisto. So know them well...10 consecutive years, and between nearly getting the Boulder and then 3 Gryphons...super-powerful, pure Class A has been a theme for me. Right or wrong. The Gryphon's emphasis is on creating such a remarkable lifelike presence in music that it breathes a powerful sense of life into performances. Part of that comes from what I have now come to believe is a shade of extra power in the mid-bass (not much mind you, but 'just enough') that when you play recordings through them...piano, vocals, guitars have a power to them which is unmistakable, addictive and something you can easily sit back and soak in forever. It is super addictive, satisfying and whether you are at volume 1 or 100...you never lack for body in your music. I really really got a thrill out of that from Gryphon. Additionally, as time went on, the much much earlier (original Antileon) sense of darkness fell away, and generally speaking, while Gryphon's propsulsive bass tends to add weight to sound (and arguably a darker tone)...it really has a very very filigreed set of highs that are also very extended.

- Robert Koda. Now this is a tough one. First, I come back to the 'unvarnished truth' of Boulder. It was what I think of when I hear it, and that includes the term unvarnished. Some have found that some fundamentals or harmonics in the notes are ever so slightly stripped. On the one hand, I think I do see that in the older 2060...on the other hand, I can see that your upstream equipment could probably very easily counterbalance that. So it is a signature but not an insurmountable one.

Now we come to Robert Koda. This is a designer whose background is Kondo (ultra extreme, ultra custom, ultra music-as-a-pure-form-of-art) but who after 20 years has evolved to entirely solid state (again, pure Class A) and entirely his own designs. But he applies his intensity and extreme Kondo-homage purity ethic to his own solid state designs so that rather than deliver unvarnished...he literally seems to be design the purest and simplest circuit with the lowest noise floor (and does things like pure solid copper chassis tp block EMI, RFI, etc), design an insane 238-part hand soldered attenuator, where only 2 parts actually touch the circuit at any given volume or something crazy like that)...and his K15EX emerges as something that truly is the closest to pure music I have ever encountered.

Meanwhile, he takes this same ethos recently to develop the K160s...much, much tougher to figure out for me, coming from a Gryphon background. I drop them in...and they are so pure, so low-noise-floor and so effortless, they make the Gryphon feel like it has mechanical things going to reproduce sound. BUT...here is the BUT...it takes me a YEAR to finally get the bass right. Why? Because the entire system had been meticulously set up around the Gryphon whose propulsively powerful bass is renowned.

Whether the Robert Koda is absolutely dead even across the entire spectrum, I cannot say. All I can say is that after reworking the entire system, piece by piece particularly including repositioning the speakers by centimeters and Absolute Sounds adjusting the internals...the bass is extraordinary...breathtaking articulate and nuanced in a way the Mephisto was not in our system (despite being supremely articulate). And shockingly, much more extended...much deeper and more resolved at that depth. Even the famous midbass of the Gryphon is bested by now the Robert Koda...but it took a lot of minute adjustments across the entire system that had been living with Gryphon for 10 years consecutively. And by bested, I do not mean that the Robert Koda now has a protruding midbass, but rather that the finetuning of the system now provides a depth and power in the midbass that when amplified by the Robert Koda has pure power while at the same time having extraordinary nuance. And this gives a richness of detail and life to the midbass...without making it fulsome or weighty to do so. It just feels right. Finally, the Robert Koda bass is firmly best in sheer all-out power and now shows me that its bass always had the ability to match the absolute organic purity of its midrange and treble.

Relative to the Gryphons, the Robert Kodas are NOT drop-ins. The K15EX probably is for most systems to be fair. But you have to be ready to ensure your system is set up to produce exactly the sound you want BEFORE it gets to the Koda K160 monos...and then as soon as it does reach them, they will produce effortless, powerful, organic, nuanced music. But if there is something up in the chain just off (particularly in the bass), there is no extra fat in the K160 to smooth that over. It just wont play it until your system delivers it. it took me a year to get it right, and it has been another year of finetuning the upstream. However, this extra year of finetuning has resulted in extraordinary improvements where I realize that without the Robert Kodas, I would probably not have been able to achieve this because the earlier pre-Robert Koda amplification would not have been up to it. It takes time and effort...but the Robert Kodas make that so eminently worthwhile in a way that no other piece of equipment ever has for me with perhaps its equal being the Zanden 4-box which after 15 years remains in the system to this day. A note of advice if you will.

Hope that helps. One man's experience.
 
Last edited:

Rocco I.

Well-Known Member
Apr 26, 2012
253
78
935
Italy
to describe the sound characteristics
Hi, thanks for you comment. At my ears the best way to describe the 911 mk 3 (and for that matter all the Burmester electronics I’ve heard and currently own) is complete neutrality and complete lack of grain. The pure essence of musicality.
 

Verdier

Well-Known Member
Oct 7, 2018
135
143
148
Hi, thanks for you comment. At my ears the best way to describe the 911 mk 3 (and for that matter all the Burmester electronics I’ve heard and currently own) is complete neutrality and complete lack of grain. The pure essence of musicality.
Fine, but what about

- Soundstage (width, depth, height)
- Spatial representation of the music
- organic representation of the instruments
- physical presence
- blackness of the background
- calmness and airiness between the sounds or instruments?
 

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