Being Installed on Friday!

[MylesBAstor]

Do you know what type of wire is used for your dedicated circuits and how they wired it to your receptacles? This makes all the difference in the world, and is one of the most critical steps in the installation, it also determines which brand of receptacle is better than the other.

Not sure what you mean "how they wired it to your receptacles?"

 

[ack]

Interesting, I never found a PC that overall improved the sound of the MLs But that was true until recently for most PCs with my audio equipment too. I've been tempted though to try the new PC that ML uses with the CLX on the Summits.

Trust me on this one. Somehow that power cord removes the last bit of spray-can sound of cymbals; I suspect it's because it's shielded and doesn't pollute the speaker cables which aren't.

 

[Bill Hart]

Trust me on this one. Somehow that power cord removes the last bit of spray-can sound of cymbals; I suspect it's because it's shielded and doesn't pollute the speaker cables which aren't.

the power to the martin logans is only for the subwoofer, right? the crossover to the electrostats is passive, no?
when i changed out the power cords across all my components, i took notes. The ones on the avantgarde woofers (active, obviously, and no active crossover to the mids or tweets- in fact there is no crossover whatsoever on the mid horn it connects directly to the amp), seemed to make the least difference- most profound was the line stage and the tube amps.
(I still went with the additional PCs on the phono stage and woofer amps and the only place i cheaped out was on the power supply to the turntable, where i use a relatively inexpensive Shunyata) The rest are K-S.

 

[ack]

the power to the martin logans is only for the subwoofer, right? the crossover to the electrostats is passive, no?

No, exactly the opposite, though on the Summit it's both

 

[Bill Hart]

No, exactly the opposite, though on the Summit it's both

Thanks for clarification, be interesting to see why Myles saw no improvement. perhaps with his new electrical set up he will revisit.

 

[Btselect]

Not sure what you mean "how they wired it to your receptacles?"

If you look at your receptacle there are 4 hot and 4 neutral holes where you can place the wire in and 2 screws for each hot and neutral that has a plate that tightens down on the wire for each receptacle (plate tightens down on 2 wires). Most electricians I know and worked with normally attach the wire on the screw and not in the holes, fast and easy but not ideal.

 

[TheAudioAssociation]

If you look at your receptacle there are 4 hot and 4 neutral holes where you can place the wire in and 2 screws for each hot and neutral that has a plate that tightens down on the wire for each receptacle (plate tightens down on 2 wires). Most electricians I know and worked with normally attach the wire on the screw and not in the holes, fast and easy but not ideal.

Can you elaborate on why the screw attachment is not as ideal as the insertion into the holes? Thanks!

 

[Btselect]

Can you elaborate on why the screw attachment is not as ideal as the insertion into the holes? Thanks!

If you look at every receptacle they are basically very similar. Each receptacle has 2 outlets, which can be isolated from each other by breaking the connection that connects both outlets, but it's this point where you have a big bottleneck, the rule of thumb is to connect the hot to one side and the neutral to the other side so that both sides are more or less the same. If you connect both hot and neutral to one side of the outlet that side will sound a whole lot better than the other side. I don't recall which post which showed a cartoon like drawing of the current being squeezed, believe me this picture is worth a thousand words, and the basis of the problems we face in audio and video. For now all I can tell you is just analyze the receptacle and how it's built, the answer is all there, but be forewarned, this will change all what you currently know on how to setup a system, and the electrical setup is only step one of many.....

 

[Bill Hart]

If you look at every receptacle they are basically very similar. Each receptacle has 2 outlets, which can be isolated from each other by breaking the connection that connects both outlets, but it's this point where you have a big bottleneck, the rule of thumb is to connect the hot to one side and the neutral to the other side so that both sides are more or less the same. If you connect both hot and neutral to one side of the outlet that side will sound a whole lot better than the other side. I don't recall which post which showed a cartoon like drawing of the current being squeezed, believe me this picture is worth a thousand words, and the basis of the problems we face in audio and video. For now all I can tell you is just analyze the receptacle and how it's built, the answer is all there, but be forewarned, this will change all what you currently know on how to setup a system, and the electrical setup is only step one of many.....

BT, sorry to be dense, but when you say connect hot to one 'side' neutral to 'same side' you mean connect to one outlet in the receptacle, rather than hot to one outlet, neutral to the other outlet, and allowing the internal connector of the receptacle connect the two?
If I am reading this correctly, then you are suggesting for a duplex outlet you need to run multiple wires to each outlet, rather than relying on the internal strap or connector between the two?
And if the receptacle is of very high grade, with some sort of excellent quality 'connector' between the two outlets, is the issue you raise less acute?
I'm trying to understand your explanation, not 'question' or debate it.

 

[Btselect]

BT, sorry to be dense, but when you say connect hot to one 'side' neutral to 'same side' you mean connect to one outlet in the receptacle, rather than hot to one outlet, neutral to the other outlet, and allowing the internal connector of the receptacle connect the two?
If I am reading this correctly, then you are suggesting for a duplex outlet you need to run multiple wires to each outlet, rather than relying on the internal strap or connector between the two?
And if the receptacle is of very high grade, with some sort of excellent quality 'connector' between the two outlets, is the issue you raise less acute?
I'm trying to understand your explanation, not 'question' or debate it.

Yes you are correct, unfortunately to answer your last question, the higher quality receptacles don't address this problem, so if you have like most people only a 10 gauge romex wire feeding one receptacle you're really not in good shape. Not only the solid gauge wire is not ideal the black color of the insulation for the hot wire is the worst color to use, it's the same theory as why Classic used the Clarity vinyl at the end, there are also other reasons.

Some 12 years ago I discovered a formula to turn standard electricity (unleaded gas) into nitro fuel. I finally decided to share this with the rest of the world. All I can say it works for everything that uses electricity, in audio from the cheapest systems to the most expensive.

 

[mep]

Some 12 years ago I discovered a formula to turn standard electricity (unleaded gas) into nitro fuel. I finally decided to share this with the rest of the world. All I can say it works for everything that uses electricity, in audio from the cheapest systems to the most expensive.

Do tell...

 

[Btselect]

If I am reading this correctly, then you are suggesting for a duplex outlet you need to run multiple wires to each outlet, rather than relying on the internal strap or connector between the two?

How I would connect the wires to the receptacle would be branch 2 hot and neutral wires to the existing wire and securing them with the appropriate wire nut and taping that joint, all within the receptacle box. I would also use copper paste on all joints to reduce corrosion and increase conductivity. Connect the two hot and neutral wires to the outside holes, then using the same gauge and type of wire cut a piece to connect to the two inside holes, this would address the bottleneck between the 2 outlets. You can also use just the one hot and neural wire, you can either place the hot wire into one outlet and the neutral to the other outlet or both into one outlet using the outside hole, then jumping the 2 outlets by connecting the same wire into the 2 inside holes, the last remaining hole I cut a short piece of wire and place it in the last hole. This is recommended so that the screw does't bend when you tighten it. Leave the insulation on, only strip the wire that goes into the hole for the jumper wire.

This is the one area where the different receptacles differ, and how I determine which one is better. The way the wire is secured in the hole and size of wire it can accept, anything less than a 10 gauge wire is unacceptable. Remember I did this about 12 years ago so the design of receptacles may have changed by brand. At the time I found the Leviton brand to be far superior, they have the thickest plate that gives the tightest connection for securing the wire in the hole, the Hubbell brand had one of the thinnest and poorest connection. I use the Wattgate (Leviton) gold plated version, gold doesn't have the best conductivity but has better anti corrosion and better contact properties. If you tried A/B test on different receptacles, you may have found that the none plated ones almost always sound better, it's because the plated ones especially the Wattgates take up to a year to break in, given time they usually blow away the non plated ones.

 

[ack]

Furutech AC receptacles installed and system is up and running.

Good thing I made them check their work because they wired one set of receptacles on one dedicated line incorrectly. Of course they didn't have a polarity tester and I had to lend them mine! So now to play music through the system, let the speakers recharge and break in the receptacles.

I am installing the Rhodium version of the GTX-D this weekend... good bye Hubbell

 

[MylesBAstor]

I am installing the Rhodium version of the GTX-D this weekend... good bye Hubbell

Cool!

I'm just finishing up the review for PFO! Along with the HFT Quantum chips.

 

[Speedskater]

Gold is a great choice for low voltage, low current signal contacts. But Gold is a poor choice for a high current contact! Plug it in just once with a big power amp turned on and you will blow a hole in the Gold plating.

 

[MylesBAstor]

Gold is a great choice for low voltage, low current signal contacts. But Gold is a poor choice for a high current contact! Plug it in just once with a big power amp turned on and you will blow a hole in the Gold plating.

That's interesting. Where has that been shown with audio equipment and high quality plating methods--not the crap that comes with a $1 receptacle?

 

[Speedskater]

It has nothing to do with cheap audio equipment!

from:
http://www.nkkswitches.com/pdf/switchcontactmaterial.pdf

Gold contact material should be used in low level, or dry circuit applications. The maximum rating for gold is 0.4VA @ 20V AC or DC. Gold will not tarnish as easily when exposed to moisture and airborne acids thereby making it a good solution for low current and voltage applications. Gold does has some important limitations as a contact material. Gold is expensive. It is also very soft, ductile, and pliable. If gold plating is used in an application where an arc is expected, the gold will literally melt off of the contacts. The base material will leach through the porous thin gold layer to the surface. When this happens, corrosion and oxidation of the base material will take place and the contact resistance will rise to unacceptable levels.

 

[MylesBAstor]

It has nothing to do with cheap audio equipment!

from:
http://www.nkkswitches.com/pdf/switchcontactmaterial.pdf

Gold contact material should be used in low level, or dry circuit applications. The maximum rating for gold is 0.4VA @ 20V AC or DC. Gold will not tarnish as easily when exposed to moisture and airborne acids thereby making it a good solution for low current and voltage applications. Gold does has some important limitations as a contact material. Gold is expensive. It is also very soft, ductile, and pliable. If gold plating is used in an application where an arc is expected, the gold will literally melt off of the contacts. The base material will leach through the porous thin gold layer to the surface. When this happens, corrosion and oxidation of the base material will take place and the contact resistance will rise to unacceptable levels.

No, I was referring to cheap AC receptacles, not equipment.

Don't you think that if gold arced in real life like that, people would have noticed it in their outlets?

I also wonder when that was written and what the specifications were for the purity of gold, thickness of plating, what type of alloy was used (or with nickel), etc. I have to think some of that is dated.

 

[Speedskater]

Well I learned that (about gold contacts) some 30 years ago in industrial engineering product development. That Cleveland company made a lot of high quality equipment and it was in our design standards. Do a search and you will find other industrial papers on the subject. (i posted from the first paper that I found)

Why don't you try it with your expensive receptacle, get a 1500 Watt space heater turn it on first then plug it in.

 

[MylesBAstor]

Well I learned that (about gold contacts) some 30 years ago in industrial engineering product development. That Cleveland company made a lot of high quality equipment and it was in our design standards. Do a search and you will find other industrial papers on the subject. (i posted from the first paper that I found)

Why don't you try it with your expensive receptacle, get a 1500 Watt space heater turn it on first then plug it in.

That may be true but do you think that applies to audio equipment? I really can't believe that Furutech doesn't know this too but I can easily ask them about that. And I'm not exactly going to use a space heater on a dedicated line. So then what does that mean for ordinary AC outlets? One of the reasons that switch from $1 receptacles is that they easily become arced, pitted and corroded. And nickel plating isn't the answer as it is ferromagnetic and seems to degrade the sound. (esp. in capacitor leads for instance.)

I also noted that the base material as well undercoatings made a difference. So it seems to me that they are in part talking about gold directly plated on brass. (certainly they don't use Cu in ordinary outlets.)