Audiophile power cords vs. the cables in your walls

thedudeabides

Well-Known Member
Jan 16, 2011
2,166
670
1,200
Alto, NM
Gotcha Gordon, but with all things 'wire' snake oil abounds !
Dave,

If you are interested in hearing what a more "expensive" pc can do within your budget constraints, you can buy through Music Direct and decide yourself if it's snake oil or the real thing. If snake oil, just return in 60 days for a full refund. If you don't want to put forth the minor effort to do this or are happy with what you have and have no interest of potentially improving the the sound of your system, works for me.

But I think it's an unfair generalization for you or anyone else to categorize (and criticize) all more expensive "after market" cables as snake oil until you've auditioned them in your system. I believe your position is probably based on personal bias / speculation and not necessarily reality my friend.

As I stated above, I thought the top Pangea PC was an affordable product that would produce positive improvements but after comparing with my Shunyata, it's simply wasn't true. And by a large, easily audible margin.

Best,

Gordon
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: christoph

DaveC

Industry Expert
Nov 16, 2014
3,899
2,142
495
Dave,

If you are interested in hearing what a more "expensive" pc can do within your budget constraints, you can buy through Music Direct and decide yourself if it's snake oil or the real thing. If snake oil, just return in 60 days for a full refund. If you don't want to put forth the minor effort to do this or are happy with what you have and have no interest of potentially improving the the sound of your system, works for me.

But I think it's an unfair generalization for you or anyone else to categorize (and criticize) all more expensive "after market" cables as snake oil until you've auditioned them in your system. I believe your position is probably based on personal bias / speculation and not necessarily reality my friend.

As I stated above, I thought the top Pangea PC was an affordable product that would produce positive improvements but after comparing with my Shunyata, it's simply wasn't true. And by a large, easily audible margin.

Best,

Gordon

And if you'd like to try something significantly better than Shunyata I'll send you cables to try for free. :)
 

thedudeabides

Well-Known Member
Jan 16, 2011
2,166
670
1,200
Alto, NM
How can you turn down an offer like that Dave? Kudos to Dave C. for his confidence in his product.

And Dave C., I'd like to try your wire but I'm at the end of my audio journey and happy where I landed. Time to call it good enough for me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: christoph and DaveC

twitch

Well-Known Member
Jun 17, 2010
602
245
1,605
SE Pa
And if you'd like to try something significantly better than Shunyata I'll send you cables to try for free. :)
I went on your website, where's the info on the $300 PC you're talking about ?
 

DaveC

Industry Expert
Nov 16, 2014
3,899
2,142
495
I went on your website, where's the info on the $300 PC you're talking about ?

I think I could do a better job with marketing them, but the lack of sales of my entry level cables has been an issue for many, many years. Believe me, I try to offer a good cable for prices most can afford.


POWER CABLES

Clear Bass Power Cables are made using wire of excessive gauge for the application to ensure the fastest possible instantaneous current delivery. All three legs of the power cable are 9 gauge. The plugs used are genuine Furutech FI-15+ with copper contacts and rhodium plating.

These are fantastic power cables and I think some folks will prefer them over any pure copper cable, because they add less warmth, allowing the spatial cues to form a more immersive soundstage and the fine detail to produce a more realistic timbre. Out of the entire Clear Bass cable lineup these are exceptional cables for full-range use as well as subwoofer use.

These are very flexible cables that are thin and easy to handle.

Pricing is $299 for 1 meter length and $75/meter for additional length.

 

Stereophonic

Well-Known Member
Jun 9, 2013
891
672
410
Spain
The manual of the Schiit Yggdrasil DAC, version 1, states in the list of DAC connections:

9 Power Cord.
Plug the end of the supplied IEC cord in here. You can also use fancy audiophile types, but they won’t really do anything—what about the thousands of feet of crap copper cables in your walls, huh?

(End quote.)

What say ye? What would be an argument against such technical reasoning?
I only find an option after reading that…
Close the manual. Get it back to the box with the Dac, return it to your dealer and keep this brand far from you….
“You can also use fancy audiophile Dacs, but they won’t really do anything—what about the difference if digital signal is only 1 and 0?”
:cool:
 
Last edited:

tony22

Well-Known Member
Nov 4, 2019
585
255
153
62

DaveC

Industry Expert
Nov 16, 2014
3,899
2,142
495
I only find an option after reading that…
Close the manual. Get it back to the box with the Dac, return it to your dealer and keep this brand far from you….
“You can also use fancy audiophile Dacs, but they won’t really do anything—what about the difference if digital signal is only 1 and 0?”
:cool:

I empathize with your sentiment, but I'm probably going to buy a Yggy eventually! :)

Hi Dave. Can this be made with a 20A IEC?

Sure!
 

Al M.

VIP/Donor
Sep 10, 2013
8,785
4,543
1,213
Greater Boston
  • Like
Reactions: DaveC

tony22

Well-Known Member
Nov 4, 2019
585
255
153
62
Thanks Dave!
 

twitch

Well-Known Member
Jun 17, 2010
602
245
1,605
SE Pa
I think I could do a better job with marketing them


Agreed, less 'verbal fluff'
POWER CABLES

Clear Bass Power Cables are made using wire of excessive gauge for the application to ensure the fastest possible instantaneous current delivery.


basic principles of Ohm's Law
These are fantastic power cables and I think some folks will prefer them over any pure copper cable, because they add less warmth,


So if they are not made from copper, what then? and if cooper adds warmth how does one account for the miles of cable that precedes it ? Regardless, your copper claim is a first for me !
allowing the spatial cues to form a more immersive soundstage and the fine detail to produce a more realistic timbre.


Sorry, this is much more in line with ones speaker choice and room integration
 
Last edited:

thedudeabides

Well-Known Member
Jan 16, 2011
2,166
670
1,200
Alto, NM
Dave,

Just try the damn PC my friend. Yes it's hype. Nothing unusual about that. Common industry practice. Sounds like may be reluctant (afraid?) to take Dave C. up on his very generous offer. I, for one, am very interested in your comments. You have nothing to lose except a few hours of your time. Be well.

Gordon
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: DaveC and christoph

Billinge

New Member
Aug 15, 2021
28
21
3
61
Following up from my previous posts I found the following interesting info...

definition: What’s The Difference Between Linear And Non-Linear Loads?
AC electrical loads are referred to either as linear or non-linear depending on how they draw current from the mains power supply waveform.

With a linear load, the relationship between the voltage and current waveforms are sinusoidal and the current at any time is proportional to the voltage (Ohm’s law). Examples of linear loads would include transformers, motors and capacitors.

On the other hand, with a non-linear load the current isn’t proportional to the voltage and it fluctuates based on the alternating load impedance.

Common examples of non-linear loads include rectifiers, variable-speed drives and electronic devices such as computers, printers, TVs, servers and telecoms systems that use switched-mode power supply (SMPS) power conversion technologies. They are also typically found with blade servers.


Having identified what we mean please see the following respected engineering article (no audio vendors here :) )

How bad harmonics influence the work of motors and generators, transformers, capacitors etc

The distortion in the waveform in the load current of any nonlinear device causes similar changes in the voltage waveform relative to the harmonic impedance of the source network. This voltage distortion affects both the current and voltage for all other loads connected to that system.

Effects of Harmonics​

The distortion in the waveform in the load current of any nonlinear device causes similar changes in the voltage waveform relative to the harmonic impedance of the source network. This voltage distortion affects both the current and voltage for all other loads connected to that system.
How bad harmonics influence on motors and generators, transformers, capacitors and other equipment (on photo: FLUKE 437-II testing equipment power quality tool)
The common effects of such harmonic distortion are as follows:
  1. Motors and generators
  2. Transformers
  3. Capacitors
  4. Power cables
  5. Electronic equipment
  6. Switchgear and relaying
  7. Fuses
  8. Communication Systems Interference

4. Power cables​

Power cables are inherently capacitive and, as noted above for capacitor banks, their capacitance can produce a risk of resonance with the inductive parts of the network.
These resonance risks and the harmonics themselves can produce the following problems for cable systems:
  1. Cables involved in system resonance may be subjected to voltage stress and corona.
  2. Increased heating due to higher rms current, skin effect, and proximity effect. The skin effect will vary with the frequency and conductor size.
Power cable conductors commonly lie very close to one another, and therefore the high-frequency currents in the outer skin of one conductor influence the spread and behavior of high-frequency currents in the skin of the adjoining conductors, giving rise to a “proximity effect.”
The skin effect and proximity effect are proportional to the square of a frequency. Cables therefore have to be derated if there is significant harmonic distortion, particularly if ITHD is greater than 10%.


Of course our engineering colleagues with many years experience will say, as engineers we fix all problems, but in reality we know that nearly all products are a compromise based on cost, tolerances, less than perfect specs and good enough

So everything is by degree, and given we are looking for as close to 100% perfection not 90%, 95% etc, it is not unreasonable to believe power cables affect audio and visual equipment, true a $100k amp may deal with crap better than a $2 or 3k amp (or cd, 4k player or tv).

PS - re: Use shielded cables for equipment rated above 600 V.
Even my Panasonic tv came with a hardwired 300-500v mains lead and a audio fuse!
 
Last edited:

myself

Well-Known Member
Jul 2, 2017
5
2
85
10 years ago I have upgraded the in-wall(50feet total) power cord (running from the fuse box to hifi) to Cardas Functional Perfect solid core pure copper inwall (3x 10 awg). After running in, there’s a great improvement over the pre installation. During that time, I was using Tara lab the one, siltech ruby mountain 2, and argent flow Olympic for PC.

if I were better off financially, I wish to upgrade the inwall again.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Addicted to hifi

Addicted to hifi

VIP/Donor
Sep 8, 2020
4,610
2,039
265
52
Australia
10 years ago I have upgraded the in-wall(50feet total) power cord (running from the fuse box to hifi) to Cardas Functional Perfect solid core pure copper inwall (3x 10 awg). After running in, there’s a great improvement over the pre installation. During that time, I was using Tara lab the one, siltech ruby mountain 2, and argent flow Olympic for PC.

if I were better off financially, I wish to upgrade the inwall again.
Thats what I need to do to our house as it’s quite old.
 
Last edited:

Al M.

VIP/Donor
Sep 10, 2013
8,785
4,543
1,213
Greater Boston
10 years ago I have upgraded the in-wall(50feet total) power cord (running from the fuse box to hifi) to Cardas Functional Perfect solid core pure copper inwall (3x 10 awg). After running in, there’s a great improvement over the pre installation. During that time, I was using Tara lab the one, siltech ruby mountain 2, and argent flow Olympic for PC.

if I were better off financially, I wish to upgrade the inwall again.

Recently I also changed my in-wall cable from the fuse box (42 feet) from 12 AWG to 10 AWG (shielded MC 10/2 cable). Big difference, less distortion, tighter bass.

Fuse box is new too, needed to pass inspection for my new solar installation.

Will also (gasp) upgrade to audiophile power cables that I have on audition right now.
 

myself

Well-Known Member
Jul 2, 2017
5
2
85
Recently I also changed my in-wall cable from the fuse box (42 feet) from 12 AWG to 10 AWG (shielded MC 10/2 cable). Big difference, less distortion, tighter bass.

Fuse box is new too, needed to pass inspection for my new solar installation.

Will also (gasp) upgrade to audiophile power cables that I have on audition right now.
Recently I also changed my in-wall cable from the fuse box (42 feet) from 12 AWG to 10 AWG (shielded MC 10/2 cable). Big difference, less distortion, tighter bass.

Fuse box is new too, needed to pass inspection for my new solar installation.

Will also (gasp) upgrade to audiophile power cables that I have on audition right now.
Don’t forget the fuse! the size is small but the impact is great.
 

Al M.

VIP/Donor
Sep 10, 2013
8,785
4,543
1,213
Greater Boston
Don’t forget the fuse! the size is small but the impact is great.

Sure, I'll buy a bunch of these:

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/who’s-up-for-a-2800-fuse.32202/
 

PeterA

Well-Known Member
Dec 6, 2011
12,645
10,898
3,515
USA
Recently I also changed my in-wall cable from the fuse box (42 feet) from 12 AWG to 10 AWG (shielded MC 10/2 cable). Big difference, less distortion, tighter bass.

Fuse box is new too, needed to pass inspection for my new solar installation.

Will also (gasp) upgrade to audiophile power cables that I have on audition right now.

Al, do you mean breaker box? Or do you really still have fuses?
 

Al M.

VIP/Donor
Sep 10, 2013
8,785
4,543
1,213
Greater Boston
Al, do you mean breaker box? Or do you really still have fuses?

Sure, breaker box. I must have adopted the nomenclature of the post that I replied to.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PeterA

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing