Another Apogee thread? You bet!

May 30, 2010
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#61
Micro, how do you think my room will suit or not suit Duettas?
Loft space, so descending eaves 30 degrees from mid point apex max 10' high down to 4' high side walls, 18' room width overall
Overall depth 55'
Flr area 1000 sq ft, volume 7000 cub ft
I have ability to place Duettas 5'-10' from rear walls, 8' apart, at this spacing they end up 2.5' from side walls, and outer top corner 1' from descending eaves
I can sit any distance from them 8'-15', and still have half the room behind me
Micro can't answer that. He is not an astrologer. What you need to do is, Jon right now has a cheap duetta I think. Pay him 500 quid to drive it over and test it. Test it with your NAT and a 500 quid Crown class D 500w amp. If you get the bass, pay him to restore it to a Deutta Battlestar Galactica. Keep the crown amp to burn in the panels for the first 200 hours, after which you can always sell it with minimal loss.

Correction: Duetta Battlesta Galactica
Even if I was an astrologer I would not be able to answer. But Ked advice seems reasonable. Before committing with an expensive custom item you should try a standard version for some time. Your space looks great - did you get an RT60 versus frequency measurement?
 

spiritofmusic

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Jun 13, 2013
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#62
Micro, the objective measuring crowd would throw up their hands in despair at me
I just had to spend big to wrangle the room anyhow, specified as much Kingspan and Rockwool in walls, eaves and floor
I fired up the system and hoped for the best
I really sat there sweating as the first cd started playing, w no confidence I'd spent $80k on anything other than a White Elephant, but within moments had a real epiphany as I realised I'd hit a home run
Bass response in particular is so smooth and apparent suck out free compared to my prev apartment
I've lost all the harshness that tbh I was unaware of at the time (but noticeable in retrospect by its absence)
The room has just allowed natural warmth to open up, proper imaging to exist, and transparency is superlative
The acoustic seems great, maxxed out by heft and bass extension from my seperate feed/8kVA balanced transformer/Oyaides dedicated lines
So radical has the change been, that prior to hearing Justin's Interstellas, I had been gearing up to winding down all components' upgrading (save for a last spend on tt active or passive isoln and maybe SGM streamer)
But now I've heard the Interstellas...
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
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#64
My GF is saying i REALLY need to clear up that clutter LOL
Work in progress is my excuse
Thanks Justin for fixing my lack of computer expertise in uploading what I couldn't myself
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 25, 2015
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#65
Marc, it looks great!!!

What is the flooring material in the speaker area?
 

spiritofmusic

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Jun 13, 2013
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#66
My space is a bit more pristine now
But good for all to see the chaos and stress I've been prone to
Ron, you're testament to that, I believe if it wasn't for yr (and Barry's and Bill's) support I'd certainly have turned to coffee
Vinyl on new suspended timber flr
Timber on existing 1861 flr joists over 18x50 span
Vinyl to front 1/3 of room, carpet to rear 2/3
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 25, 2015
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#67
That 1/3 front reflective floor and 2/3 rear carpeted floor is the MikeL design. I will be doing approximately the same thing.
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
11,640
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#68
Ron, it was more to have a non compliant surface under the Zus
I needed to move them about until I got ideal position, and since I've replaced spikes w Rollerblocks, carpet under would have been sub optimal
I'm v glad I did go for carpet elsewhere, as a result my room is just so re damped v lively
 

ddk

Industry Expert
May 19, 2013
4,882
1,611
680
Utah
#69
Marc, in 10 years plus experience with the Divas in many different settings my conclusion was that if the room is good for dynamic speakers then it's good for Apogees too and vice versa. They're no more of a challenge to the room than any other type of high-end speaker and had I not changed over to SETs & horns I might still probably be living with them!

david
 

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
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#70
Marc, in 10 years plus experience with the Divas in many different settings my conclusion was that if the room is good for dynamic speakers then it's good for Apogees too and vice versa. They're no more of a challenge to the room than any other type of high-end speaker and had I not changed over to SETs & horns I might still probably be living with them!

david
David did you get low bass in any room with the diva?
 

JackD201

WBF Founding Member
Apr 21, 2010
11,710
693
660
Manila, Philippines
#71
My GF is saying i REALLY need to clear up that clutter LOL
Work in progress is my excuse
Thanks Justin for fixing my lack of computer expertise in uploading what I couldn't myself
Pssst. The unspoken online rule is that you blame the clutter on the GF. LOL
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
11,640
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#72
Jack, I'm obv too truthful for my own good
Dave, my Zus low freq performance has been transformed by the new room
So much so that I've taken the subs low pass filter from 60 Hz vol 6/10 to 40 Hz 4/10
I have more extended and tighter bass
The argument on whether tubes are right for these Duettas, and right in my room, can't easily be answered, just a Mobius Loop of hope/anxiety
The demo was so compelling, the memory of it so imprinted, what I heard so unique (certainly at anything close to the price point), that I'm very seriously considering going against my basic cautious conservative nature here
Otoh, I've really hit a home run/hole in one w my startling room acoustics/pwr grid/NATs tubes-Zus synergy that if it wasn't for these Duettas i ABSOLUTELY would not be looking at other spkrs
 

bonzo75

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Feb 26, 2014
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#73
Marc, you said you felt like the Maxwell advert guy.

But that's exactly how I felt when listening to Mahler blast on FR
Read my reference to waves on the first post here one year ago

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?19104-Apogee-Full-range&p=355730&viewfull=1#post355730

"While I was listening, the loud parts of the symphony came towards me like waves, they just kept coming towards me down the room. After we finished, the other guy too described what he heard as 'waves'. Amazing we were both visualizing the same thing. The soft parts of Mahler were equally delightful, with the flute and clarinet floating up creamily to the center. "
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
11,640
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#74
Tbh Justin plays a fair degree louder than I'll likely do
But it was a fascinating phenomenon
This vertical density I didn't even hear when I attended a demo of 7' tall D'Appolito Rockport Hyperions some 15 yrs ago
Even the big 4 tower Martens I heard at a show once, despite having a bigger soundstage than the Duettas couldn't match Justin's Interstellas for visceral density
At c£15k for an overspecced pr Duettas, this gives me a lot of what I recall hearing from Cessaro Liszts and AG Trios w a whole additional level of certitude
 

bonzo75

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Feb 26, 2014
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#75
Liszt's will sound too disparate as compared to the duettas and to me totally can't get the bass. Also the acoustic tone. The trios scale better (more bass, dynamics, stage) but then there is the FR which is the size competitor for them. Of course trio price is much higher. You can actually get the duettas and the horns I mentioned, and run them both with the same amp. You will only have to change the speaker cable from speaker to the other. And the horns will be kept wider out and further back.
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
11,640
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#76
You DO love to make life complicated
If Interstella-variant replicates the listening experience in my room as it sounds at Justin's, there'll be no buyer's remorse from me
I'll be one unbelievably happy audiofool
This vertical density thing is really compelling
I'd obv get used to not having it if I stuck w my Zus
But as a USP, IMHO it's the biggest selling point for these Duettas, and really adds a lot to trying to replicate the live experience
I'm not seeing any horns out there that are going to do this, other than maybe Trios w 3 prs of 6' high stacked Basshorns
Unfortunately I don't have €100k burning a hole in my pocket
 

ddk

Industry Expert
May 19, 2013
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Utah
#77
Pssst. The unspoken online rule is that you blame the clutter on the GF. LOL
Yes I did! Deep, knee in the gut powerful and articulate bass but that revelation came with high-end solid state. First with the Levinson 33 which totally transformed the Divas from top to bottom, I had know no idea up to then how capable and incredible their low end was up to that point. The Divas were playing real loud and full range with real bass for the the first time blowing away my Wilson X-1s. Later the Lamm M2.1s gave me the musicality and sophistication that I lost switching over from tubes and then some!

Jack, I'm obv too truthful for my own good
Dave, my Zus low freq performance has been transformed by the new room
So much so that I've taken the subs low pass filter from 60 Hz vol 6/10 to 40 Hz 4/10
I have more extended and tighter bass
The argument on whether tubes are right for these Duettas, and right in my room, can't easily be answered, just a Mobius Loop of hope/anxiety
The demo was so compelling, the memory of it so imprinted, what I heard so unique (certainly at anything close to the price point), that I'm very seriously considering going against my basic cautious conservative nature here
Otoh, I've really hit a home run/hole in one w my startling room acoustics/pwr grid/NATs tubes-Zus synergy that if it wasn't for these Duettas i ABSOLUTELY would not be looking at other spkrs
With the right amps even stock Divas will outperform your Zus in both quantity and quality. I stand firmly by my experience that you haven't heard an Apogee until you hear them with real high current amplifiers like the Levinson or the Lamm's, despite the stories Krells of that era weren't up to the task even if one could stomach their sound.

david
 

FrantzM

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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#78
Yes I did! Deep, knee in the gut powerful and articulate bass but that revelation came with high-end solid state. First with the Levinson 33 which totally transformed the Divas from top to bottom, I had know no idea up to then how capable and incredible their low end was up to that point. The Divas were playing real loud and full range with real bass for the the first time blowing away my Wilson X-1s. Later the Lamm M2.1s gave me the musicality and sophistication that I lost switching over from tubes and then some!



With the right amps even stock Divas will outperform your Zus in both quantity and quality. I stand firmly by my experience that you haven't heard an Apogee until you hear them with real high current amplifiers like the Levinson or the Lamm's, despite the stories Krells of that era weren't up to the task even if one could stomach their sound.

david
I don't have a pony in that race .... but having heard , experienced and lived for a while with apogee, I am with ddk here. Having owned a similar design for decades (Magnepan), I know, high current SS amplifiers are needed to get the best out of most planar magnetic speakers... For Apogees? They're mandatory.
 

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
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#79
I agree with ddk there. And divas apparently love being biamped, though unlike the FR they don't need to be.

David, I think you mistakenly quoted Jack. Did you ever lose out on bass due to the room, like have real low bass?
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
11,640
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E. England
#80
David, despite being an ever-curious audiophile, I'm also v happy to stick at a particular level if it instantly talks to me
So having found NATs Utopia pre and SE2SEs 70W 211s, I'm not compelled to go to their top of the range Magnetostat and Magmas
Similarly, having being totally wowed by Duettas, I don't feel obliged to consider Scintillas (FRs and Divas not applicable, being too tall for my space)
And so, hearing a truly stellar sound from these Duettas off moderate amps (compared to big and expensive hitters), this is really attractive
And I'd be truly amazed if the liquid quality I heard from these 211s could really be replicated by SS
I'm sure the sound would be bolder and more pertinent, but maybe less seductive
It was amazing to really feel like the amp was invisible/inaudible at Justin's, just no apparent signature
But but but... my room is a lot more demanding than his
 

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