Amir's Impressions of Martin Logan Neolith at CES 2016

[Gregadd]

Almost only counts in horse shoes and effort only counts in grade school. Almost every object has a natural resonant frequency.
Whether Ml was successful in taming the resonance of the NEOLITH is one thing.OTOH they certainly tried. According to Audioholics they selected something called super dense phenolic resin polymer. Never heard of it? Me neither., Apparentry it is used to make billiard balls and circuit boards. I recall my CLS1 used red oak. It still had a resonance according to the respected Martin Colloms. I never heard it.

 

[bonzo75]

Phenolic resin is used in Rockport Arrakis. Ron did some research on it

 

[amirm]

Almost only counts in horse shoes and effort only counts in grade school. Almost every object has a natural resonant frequency.
Whether Ml was successful in taming the resonance of the NEOLITH is one thing.OTOH they certainly tried. According to Audioholics they selected something called super dense phenolic resin polymer. Never heard of it. Me neither., Apparentry it is used to make billiard balls and circuit boards. I recall my CLS1 used red oak. It still had a resonance according to the respected Martin Colloms. I never heard it.

You can make it out of diamond if you like. Once you cantilever it out 4 foot, it is going to vibrate. This is a structural problem in addition to being a material problem. They are hamstrung by diffractions of the structure around the panel. They can't put big bulky frames there to fix the structure.

 

[bonzo75]

You can make it out of diamond if you like. Once you cantilever it out 4 foot, it is going to vibrate. This is a structural problem in addition to being a material problem. They are hamstrung by diffractions of the structure around the panel. They can't put big bulky frames there to fix the structure.

Actually, like I was telling Ron, the lack of the bulky box is the positive

 

[Gregadd]

Everything vibrates. It is just a matter of how much and at what frequency.

 

[RayDunzl]

My reQuests are MDF "one piece" construction. I can feel some vibes when they play.

Right Speaker Only, no change in speaker volume
Crossover 180Hz
1/6 smoothing

Red - microphone leaned against and touching the side about 1/3 up the panel
Blue - two inches away on the side
Green - listening position

 

[Argonaut]

Most interesting Ray, Amir will be along shortly to declare your green line as quite appalling

 

[FrantzM]

Most interesting Ray, Amir will be along shortly to declare your green line as quite appalling

I'll dab into this and just spring out , for now,

If someone like a speaker or component. Especially one with very high audiophile creds.. Long list of "Congrats", "Kudos".. "Right on Bro!" and assorted thumbs up. If a person doesn't like said audiophiles darlings and explain why he/she thinks that way ... Stoning and flames . Amir stated why he thought didn't sound good to him. Live with that people!

One useful post (there could be others, I haven't read the entire thread):

My reQuests are MDF "one piece" construction. I can feel some vibes when they play.

Right Speaker Only, no change in speaker volume
Crossover 180Hz
1/6 smoothing

Red - microphone leaned against and touching the side about 1/3 up the panel
Blue - two inches away on the side
Green - listening position

View attachment 25105

I am a planar fan and like Magnepan a lot. I found out that stabilizing the panel was very beneficial to the sound. I didn't measure it the effects of my Mye-stand clone, much heavier and damped by sorbothane that was made by a local shop here under my direction. THe sorbothane idea came up to damp the stand. I found out that when I struck it, it rang some , a somewhat sharp characteristically "metallic" sound. With Sorbothane on it .. it was a dull thud and to my ears (could have been imagined) it helped provide a cleaner more focused and ringing -free reproduction. This material, Sorbothane, has fell out of favor with the audiophile community but judiciously applied it does wonder to absorb unwanted vibrations.

 

[amirm]

Most interesting Ray, Amir will be along shortly to declare your green line as quite appalling

Why? Put some measurement over what I heard??? Ain't going to happen folks!!! Besides, green is my favorite color:

 

[Gregadd]

It is difficult to criticize someone's opinion without being personal. My bias in favor of ML should be obvious to anyone who cares.
I asked Amir to check out the Neolith because my only experience with it is on you tube videos ,reviews,and audiophile anecdotes.Given his general opinion of ML any positive statements surely must be true. Even if I had not requested, he probably would have attended the exhibit anyway.
As stated earlier so much of his impression was unrelated to the sound of the speaker.
This is a discussion group.Opinions are to be challenged and defended.That is especially so when said opiniom appears to be at odds with the consensus.
Amir could be correct. I hope not. The basis for some of his negative opinions is from his own statements. I tried to present why he might be wrong on others.
I suppose I could just take him at his word. That is just not me?

.


.

 

[Gregadd]

...Put some measurement over what I heard???...

WOW !

 

[FrantzM]

It is difficult to criticize someone's opinion without being personal. My bias in favor of ML should be obvious to anyone who cares.
I asked Amir to check out the Neolith because my only experience with it is on you tube videos ,reviews,and audiophile anecdotes.Given his general opinion of ML any positive statements surely must be true. Even if I had not requested, he probably would have attended the exhibit anyway.
As stated earlier so much of his impression was unrelated to the sound of the speaker.
This is a discussion group.Opinions are to be challenged and defended.That is especially so when said opiniom appears to be at odds with the consensus.
Amir could be correct. I hope not. The basis for some of his negative opinions is fr his own statements. I tried to present why he might be wrong on others.
I suppose I could just take him at his word. That is just not me?

.


.

I like this post. The notion of Discussions Forum seems to be lost on many. I have actually come to revere the non-approbation posts. These challenge my beliefs and help me either strengthen or dispense of mine.
I like the concept of the Neolith and would like to see it succeed. I also do believe that criticisms such those from Mair could help ML make the product better especially if the fundamentals have merit.

 

[amirm]

...Put some measurement over what I heard???...

WOW !

Yes! I am a reformed audiophile. I had a dream that I had died and on the day of my judgment, no amount of graphs I produced saying I was too young to have died did me any good. Woke up and decided from here no, no graph for me. I do make exception for some though like this:

 

[NorthStar]

My reQuests are MDF "one piece" construction. I can feel some vibes when they play.

Right Speaker Only, no change in speaker volume
Crossover 180Hz
1/6 smoothing

Red (Magenta) - microphone leaned against and touching the side about 1/3 up the panel __________
Blue (Royal) - two inches away on the side __________
Green (Turquoise) - listening position __________

View attachment 25105

Most interesting Ray, Amir will be along shortly to declare your green line as quite appalling

* That listening position line (turquoise) looks awesome. ...If it sounds as good as it looks (I bet it does because measurement/graph don't lie) ... :b

 

[TitaniumTroy]

Frantz, I have used Magnepan 3.6's that came with Mye stands. So I don't have a before and after reference, however I do like the Sorbothane concept of damping resonances. Any chance we could a pic or two and more info about the stand in general. Like where the Sorbothane is placed within the stand? Thanks for any help you can give.

Satie, over at the Planer Asylum has his Magnepan's anchored to a side wall via the the top of his speakers. He says it helps a lot.

 

[DonH50]

There's a Magnepan sub-forum, probably best discussed there. The pros and cons of bracing big planar speakers has been endlessly debated over the years. I went to some lengths a long time ago and heard all sorts of wonderful things, the vast majority of which did not hold up in blind testing. Too many times I thought "I never heard that before!" after some change only to return to the original system and discover it was there all along... That said, measurements were able to clearly show differences with bracing various planar-dynamic and ESL speakers, mostly positive but not always (e.g. impulse response was almost always better but sometimes panal modes were worse with a more rigid frame).

I do question Amir's plot, however; I think there is another plateau starting around "meh" to "not funny" that gradually slopes down through the girlfriend phase and doesn't really bottom out until after the marriage when she's tired of the same joke after the 1000'th telling...

 

[FrantzM]

<snip>
I do question Amir's plot, however; I think there is another plateau starting around "meh" to "not funny" that gradually slopes down through the girlfriend phase and doesn't really bottom out until after the marriage when she's tired of the same joke after the 1000'th telling...

+1

Titanium

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