Aesthetix Io Users Group

[sonorlite]

I just bought an older Io with volume controls and dual power supplies that I am upgrading with partial Eclipse next month. It is on the stock tubeset. No line stage, just going direct into the amp. My speakers are high efficiency and I listen at low volume so no issues with gain.

I have only had a few hours of listening time and it sounds wonderful. What seems a bit odd to me is that my Koetsu Blue Lace sounds best with no load at all, just running at 47 kohms. I had always loaded it in the 200 ohm range before.

Has anyone else experienced something similar?

 

[Lagonda]

I just bought an older Io with volume controls and dual power supplies that I am upgrading with partial Eclipse next month. It is on the stock tubeset. No line stage, just going direct into the amp. My speakers are high efficiency and I listen at low volume so no issues with gain.

I have only had a few hours of listening time and it sounds wonderful. What seems a bit odd to me is that my Koetsu Blue Lace sounds best with no load at all, just running at 47 kohms. I had always loaded it in the 200 ohm range before.

Has anyone else experienced something similar?

My Io has 2 phono inputs, setting loading is done internally if more than one value is needed. If you have more than one phono input the internal jumpers might have been set to a different value.

 

[sonorlite]

No, just one phono input.

 

[dan31]

No, just one phono input.

I have single input Io as well. The loading is on the back. The default is 47k with no load selected. I have used a Koetsu black at 47k and sound fast and alive.

 

[audioquest4life]

Welcome to the Aesthetix Io owners club. You will not be disappointed.


I have learned through experiences that suggested loading is just that, suggested. For this simpleton, loading usually takes into account a perfect path starting from the cartridge to the phono preamp In which the manufacturer has tested with specified criteria. I have read many cartridge reviews in which they start with the minimum or maximum loading and switch up loading later on to gauge sound performance with the different loading recommendation. For me, after using this method to test loading for years, I realized that loading suggestions are sometimes better with either a higher or lower loading value then the recommended values. So, it may be factual that you perceive better sound with 47k.

Another example, the new Soundsmith Hyperion has a recommended minimum loading of 470 ohms....well, I am running it at 10k with my Aesthetix Io Partial Eclipse with dual power supplies. It sounds best at that loading to me with my system. In this hobby, it seems like Your Mileage May Vary (YMMV) things occur often due to each persons own hearing criteria and system configuration.

That Koetsu Blue Lace must sound phenomenal with your system.

 

[OGH]

Hi sonorlite - With the Io, getting to know how this phono stage works, I would not worry too much about the cartridge loading. It sounds fairly good anyway, at least from my own testing, using Lyra carts like the Titan and the Atlas. Since my Io is placed in a rack with the back towards the wall (in a combined listening / living room), changing loading is not so easy, and I don't do much A/B testing. I have generally settled on what the cart manufacturer suggests, like 4-500 ohm for the Lyra Atlas, but I have also noticed, some things sound real nice with a lower load, others with a higher load - the changes are not dramatic. Other types of cartridges may be more sensitive. But, if I was new to the Io, I would first try to adjust the cart and player as well as possible, for best sound, just settling for a compromise regarding the loading. And then, fine tune the loading. - Others may have better procedures.

 

[OGH]

Lyra includes a table on how to calculate the loading based on the total circuit (cable plus cart) which seems to work fairly well. Nevertheless, if I clearly heard my cartridge sounding better at 10 khz, I would do the further adjustments from there. Or at least, try that way. Adjustments: first double check that all is optimal regarding the cartridge, weight, azimuth, vertical tracking angle, overhang, player is dead level, and so on. Next, fix the electricity. Obviously this procedure may lead wrong. If you have a cartridge suggested for like 500 ohm, something else is maybe wrong in the system if it sounds best at 10k ohm? Yet, I guess it may happen, even when all is well regarding the cartrige and player adjustment, and in that case, I would go from there.

 

[OGH]

From the Lyra Atlas manual:


My tonearm cable Kimber KCAG has 51 pf / meter. I add 30 for my stock SME V internal tonearm wiring. Going on from there, I have found a fairly good compromise - ears and calculations agreeing. Good advice from Lyra - should work for most MC cartridges, or at least, some values to try, with the Io.

 

[OGH]

Dear all, time to wake up. No-one is contributing. I hope it is due to everyone enjoying music. And not the boring sheet of numbers I posted above.

Here are some points, from reading our thread.

- Cartridge output - Kcin, Oldvinyl, myself and others - we all agree that the Io "likes" higher output cartridges, like 0.4 and above, although some seem to get 0.2 carts to work OK without noise problems or the cart sounding too anemic or weak. - I am not fully convinced. Remains to be clarified.

- Tubes - most agreee, NOS sounds better, and all agree that the first gain stage (v1-2) is the most crucial regarding the sound. Some argue that stock new production sounds (almost) as good as NOS, and besides, you can stop worry about tube life, since these are cheap.

- Noise level - general agreement that new production 12ax7 tubes, or at least selected ones (e g by Aesthetix) can be very effective, reducing tube noise in the first gain stage (especially), thereby allowing lower output carts.

- Umbilicals - few have tried. Possibly a marked improvement.

- Balanced phono cable - relatively few have compared (?), but opinion seems to be: no great improvement. No wonder, maybe, since gain stage one is single ended (but then, why the XLR inputs?).

- Connect the Io direct to the amp(s), or use a preamp in between - opinions are divided, but it seems that, those who have tried a high quality preamp in between stick to that solution.

- Kcin mentioned, preamp or direct is "system dependent", and I agree. The speaker / room integration comes into it too. I my case, I traded the "very pure" sound of the Io direct to my amps, for the "more muscular" sound through the Einstein preamp, and this also had to do with my rather large room, which the preamp helped fill with music, to a better extent than the Io direct to the amps.

- It is some years since I tested. I did get an impression that "something" was better, even regardless of room size or gain, with the Io signal passing through a good preamp on its way to the amps. I felt that the Io alone was somewhat thin, or even "ghostly". But this was only after several years, using it as stand-alone preamp. At first I did not notice.

- Cart loading - unresolved. Different results. Main result: everyone finds some workable setting that sounds fairly good.

- Basics – start from good electricity and a stable foundation, and go on from there. The Io loves a dedicated line and a highly stable shelf. Next, you can explore power cables, feet, etc.

- Don’t overdamp the room – good advice from Audioquest4life. If something sounds harsh or glaring, check other possible errors, further up in the sound chain (like, cartridge alignment).

 

[Jeffy]

Great perspective

 

[dan31]

I think the cartridge output concerns can be adjusted if you are using an active preamp between the Io and your amplifiers. I have ton's of gain, my Io is on attn setting 3 and my preamp is usually at 1/3 to 1/2. When I open my Io next for service like tube pins cleaning I will bring it down to attn 4.

 

[OGH]

Dan31 - Io is on attn setting 3 and my preamp is usually at 1/3 to 1/2.
Do you mean, your Io volume controls are ca 3 pm o'clock?
Thats where I like them best - somewhere between 3 to 4 - 3/4 or so.
I run the Einstein preamp around 1/3 to 1/2, like you. 10 to 12 o'clock.
I think the preamp sounds best running on its standard "optimal" volume.
Then I add the "spice" from the Io, from there.
When I mix the preamp and Io volumes, to get the best sound, I start with the Io fairly low, and then move up. As the Io takes more of the total gain, the sound improves - up to a point. I try to find the point that sounds best. I let the Io take over, gradually, turning up the volume, but stop before the Io sounds "saturated", too "thick" and distorted.
Having the Io with volume controls is a great benefit, in this regard, even if used with a preamp.

 

[dan31]

Dan31 - Io is on attn setting 3 and my preamp is usually at 1/3 to 1/2.
Do you mean, your Io volume controls are ca 3 pm o'clock?
Thats where I like them best - somewhere between 3 to 4 - 3/4 or so.
I run the Einstein preamp around 1/3 to 1/2, like you. 10 to 12 o'clock.
I think the preamp sounds best running on its standard "optimal" volume.
Then I add the "spice" from the Io, from there.
When I mix the preamp and Io volumes, to get the best sound, I start with the Io fairly low, and then move up. As the Io takes more of the total gain, the sound improves - up to a point. I try to find the point that sounds best. I let the Io take over, gradually, turning up the volume, but stop before the Io sounds "saturated", too "thick" and distorted.
Having the Io with volume controls is a great benefit, in this regard, even if used with a preamp.

My Io does not have the volume controls so its straight out to the preamp. There are 5 gain settings in my Io using internal jumpers. My Spectral DMC-30SSv2 preamp has 15db of gain available. Between the Io and my preamp I have plenty of gain. I have a Nagra PL-L preamp in another system and that pre is packed with gain as well.

 

[OGH]

Dan31 - sorry, I thought you had the Io with volume. You like it on setting 3 - which is how much gain?

 

[audioquest4life]

Jumper ATT 1 ATT 2 ATT 3 ATT 4 ATT 5
Attenuation 0dB -6dB -12dB -18dB -30dB

Overall Amount Gain ~80dB ~74dB ~68dB ~62dB ~50dB



ATT3 = 68db

I am using ATT4 = 62db

 

[Kcin]

Dear all, time to wake up. No-one is contributing. I hope it is due to everyone enjoying music. And not the boring sheet of numbers I posted above.

Here are some points, from reading our thread.

- Cartridge output - Kcin, Oldvinyl, myself and others - we all agree that the Io "likes" higher output cartridges, like 0.4 and above, although some seem to get 0.2 carts to work OK without noise problems or the cart sounding too anemic or weak. - I am not fully convinced. Remains to be clarified.

- Tubes - most agreee, NOS sounds better, and all agree that the first gain stage (v1-2) is the most crucial regarding the sound. Some argue that stock new production sounds (almost) as good as NOS, and besides, you can stop worry about tube life, since these are cheap.

- Noise level - general agreement that new production 12ax7 tubes, or at least selected ones (e g by Aesthetix) can be very effective, reducing tube noise in the first gain stage (especially), thereby allowing lower output carts.

- Umbilicals - few have tried. Possibly a marked improvement.

- Balanced phono cable - relatively few have compared (?), but opinion seems to be: no great improvement. No wonder, maybe, since gain stage one is single ended (but then, why the XLR inputs?).

- Connect the Io direct to the amp(s), or use a preamp in between - opinions are divided, but it seems that, those who have tried a high quality preamp in between stick to that solution.

- Kcin mentioned, preamp or direct is "system dependent", and I agree. The speaker / room integration comes into it too. I my case, I traded the "very pure" sound of the Io direct to my amps, for the "more muscular" sound through the Einstein preamp, and this also had to do with my rather large room, which the preamp helped fill with music, to a better extent than the Io direct to the amps.

- It is some years since I tested. I did get an impression that "something" was better, even regardless of room size or gain, with the Io signal passing through a good preamp on its way to the amps. I felt that the Io alone was somewhat thin, or even "ghostly". But this was only after several years, using it as stand-alone preamp. At first I did not notice.

- Cart loading - unresolved. Different results. Main result: everyone finds some workable setting that sounds fairly good.

- Basics – start from good electricity and a stable foundation, and go on from there. The Io loves a dedicated line and a highly stable shelf. Next, you can explore power cables, feet, etc.

- Don’t overdamp the room – good advice from Audioquest4life. If something sounds harsh or glaring, check other possible errors, further up in the sound chain (like, cartridge alignment).

Nice Synopsis OGH,

Glad you are still having fun.

I must say that one of the most pronounced improvements to solidity , bass articulation was placing the unit on an HRS M3X2. If anyone gets bored its an easy and unquestionable difference for the positive.

Tubes are everything, I spend hours on selection and matching , if you are able this will pay dividends. NOS will last years. TFKs are my favourites. Don't forget the PS's Mullard Xf2 there for the pass devices.

Higher output cartridges are explosive through the Io like the GFS and Atlas, I do use some stone body Koetsus and no noise issues if you choose your tubes correctly-the Koetsus are everything they should be.

There is a spot in every system , I don't care what equipment you use- where you begin to compress as you turn it up- some folks don't recognize this... with the Io there is a sweet spot. As mentioned it is the total room-system interface. Its always different for everyone. You have to find that spot and avoid going beyond.

I have no issues with the Io and VC on its own. YMMV and all that . It is far superior to me than many very capable preamps than I have had in here working in tandem.

I will build umbilicals, They are a lot of work. I think the umbilical's must take as many man hours for Aesthetix as the boards They would have jigs set up for testing of these and I will get there ... but I have to get in the mood.

It will be interesting to see what ML discovers with his new arrival given his overall system. Will wait for comments on that.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

It will be interesting to see what ML discovers with his new arrival given his overall system. Will wait for comments on that.

yes.......it will be interesting......if.....it ever happens.

my Io Eclipse arrived at Aesthetix in California on March 15th for the voltage conversion, addition of second phono input, plus upgrade to the output caps. my original expectations were that work would start fairly soon after arrival......but to be fair i had not pinned that down. but when i had contacted Aesthetix there was no warning of any long delay for this work. at that point i did specifically ask when the work would start i was told in about 30 days, mid-April. ok fine.

had not heard anything so inquired around April 25th (6 weeks later) how were things going? at that point i was basically told "we will get to it when we get to it" .

a month later (mid May) i inquired but could not get an email answered or a phone call returned. so i reached out to a friend who knows them well who lives in SoCal to intercede, and that night i did get an email that my unit would be worked on soon (would i have ever heard from them without my friend's help?).

now........three weeks later i've heard zippo.

i bought my unit in early March in good faith that i would get fair treatment from Aesthetix. so far i would say they are a train wreck. i've bought many things over many years and been as good a customer for every product i've ever owned as could be. referred hundreds of customers to dozens of companies. happily demo'd products for any company that asked me to. i'm the best customer most of these company's have ever had. i'm all in on the gear i own.

never had any experience quite like this. and to be very clear, i have never before publicly complained about service of hifi gear. professionally i'm GM of an auto dealership and handle all the toughest customer situations. so i get both sides of this sort of thing.

when (if) it does arrive, i will certainly report what i hear.

 

[Lagonda]

yes.......it will be interesting......if.....it ever happens.

my Io Eclipse arrived at Aesthetix in California on March 15th for the voltage conversion, addition of second phono input, plus upgrade to the output caps. my original expectations were that work would start fairly soon after arrival......but to be fair i had not pinned that down. but when i had contacted Aesthetix there was no warning of any long delay for this work. at that point i did specifically ask when the work would start i was told in about 30 days, mid-April. ok fine.

had not heard anything so inquired around April 25th (6 weeks later) how were things going? at that point i was basically told "we will get to it when we get to it" .

a month later (mid May) i inquired but could not get an email answered or a phone call returned. so i reached out to a friend who knows them well who lives in SoCal to intercede, and that night i did get an email that my unit would be worked on soon (would i have ever heard from them without my friend's help?).

now........three weeks later i've heard zippo.

i bought my unit in early March in good faith that i would get fair treatment from Aesthetix. so far i would say they are a train wreck. i've bought many things over many years and been as good a customer for every product i've ever owned as could be. referred hundreds of customers to dozens of companies. happily demo'd products for any company that asked me to. i'm the best customer most of these company's have ever had. i'm all in on the gear i own.

never had any experience quite like this. and to be very clear, i have never before publicly complained about service of hifi gear. professionally i'm GM of an auto dealership and handle all the toughest customer situations. so i get both sides of this sort of thing.

when (if) it does arrive, i will certainly report what i hear.

Same shitty service i got from them, took them 7 month for volume control upgrade and repair, it broke down again a month later, the Scandinavian distributer was doing his best. But they are really slow, this was pre covid ! A Norwegian owner waited 1 year for his Io to come back from the US after repair and upgrade

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Same shitty service i got from them, took them 7 month for volume control upgrade and repair, it broke down again a month later, the Scandinavian distributer was doing his best. But they are really slow, this was pre covid ! A Norwegian owner waited 1 year for his Io to come back from the US after repair and upgrade

sounds like the bar for them is pretty low, and my experience is typical. sad to hear. lots of companies are slow, but transparent about it. would have been nice to have had fair warning and i would have steered clear.

maybe i just mentally move on and forget about it. sorry to have taken the trouble to post about it. nothing likely to change.

 

[Lagonda]

sounds like the bar for them is pretty low, and my experience is typical. sad to hear. lots of companies are slow, but transparent about it. would have been nice to have had fair warning and i would have steered clear.

maybe i just mentally move on and forget about it. sorry to have taken the trouble to post about it. nothing likely to change.

The dammed thing sounds great though ! Big sound, probably great in your system !