50k people attend concert with pre-recorded music

[Al M.]

But i must say its in a way a thing from the past as well , the citydepartment did a great job in restoring old buildings museums so its not only young people looking for a " good time" that come to amsterdam it has great cultural events that attract al kinds of tourists , the zeedijk which was a run down old drug allley is now filled with nice old cafes restaurants and its safe

Amsterdam is one of the greatest cities in the world. I had the privilege for 8 years, from 1985 to 1993, to live a short train ride away, in Utrecht.

In 2002 I also attended one the best and most memorable live concerts of my life there, the world premiere of Engel-Processionen (Angel-Processions) by Stockhausen, for a capella choir, in the Concertgebouw (I traveled there from the US). Now that's highly melodic "crap" by that composer. The composer who was present greatly lauded the musicianship iof the Groot Omroep Koor (the Great Broadcast Choir) of Hilversum. And it's true, the performance of that work, difficult to sing, was of an incredible quality (total rehearsal time was 5 weeks!).

It was a great success, both with audience and with press. There were two performances of the work in this concert, separated by a break; the large hall of the Concertgebouw was sold out, and amazingly, almost all people stayed for the second perfomance of the work.

 

[Al M.]

I am actually a man that appreciates great music. Whether it is rock, jazz, classical, country, reggae, etc, etc. To me a bunch of electronic sounds thrown together is not music. It's just Electronic noise.

I don't know which electronic sounds you refer to, but more generally, what is the difference between music and just noise? Definition, please, not just a statement of 'taste'.

I can't help but notice that you have avoided my question thus far, taters.

 

[Al M.]

I think I peed a little, I deal with this crap every day, that video is a sad truth.

It was pretty funny, but in our company we don't have to deal with such, real or imaginative, problems. Millenials work just fine, in fact, many of them are terrific -- both hard-working and creative. And yes, a number of meetings start at 9 am sharp.

 

[edorr]

It was pretty funny, but in our company we don't have to deal with such, real or imaginative, problems. Millenials work just fine, in fact, many of them are terrific -- both hard-working and creative. And yes, a number of meetings start at 9 am sharp.

It is fashionable among geezers to whine about millennials, especially their alleged lack of work ethic. I personally think they are ethically far ahead of the older generation, manifested in their position on social issues, environment, and critical attitude in general. The millenials demographic with entitlement disorder must be hiding somewhere not visible to me. Besides, given the amount of celebrity crap, political disfunction, and sheer idiocy they are exposed to on a daily basis courtesy of the older generations, I'm surprised more don't throw in the towel and revert to hippydom.

 

[DaveC]

Things are only going downhill, thanks in large part to the geezers, who I'd say are responsible for the crippling 2008 financial meltdown, the ever-growing income disparity and the neverending wars... These are real issues with horrible consequences for millions if not billions of people, yet you whine about kids? Gimme a f'in break people. They got a $hit sandwich to look forward to thanks to the geezers.

 

[Al M.]

It is fashionable among geezers to whine about millennials, especially their alleged lack of work ethic. I personally think they are ethically far ahead of the older generation, manifested in their position on social issues, environment, and critical attitude in general. The millenials demographic with entitlement disorder must be hiding somewhere not visible to me. Besides, given the amount of celebrity crap, political disfunction, and sheer idiocy they are exposed to on a daily basis courtesy of the older generations, I'm surprised more don't throw in the towel and revert to hippydom.

Things are only going downhill, thanks in large part to the geezers, who I'd say are responsible for the crippling 2008 financial meltdown, the ever-growing income disparity and the neverending wars... These are real issues with horrible consequences for millions if not billions of people, yet you whine about kids? Gimme a f'in break people. They got a $hit sandwich to look forward to thanks to the geezers.

+ 1 to both.

And add climate change to the mix. What about our kids and grand kids? Are we so f*in irresponsible? And we whine about tackling climate change ruining our economy. Stupid parrotting of corporate whiners. Nonsense. Green energy is going to create jobs.

Oh forgot. Man-made climate change is not real. There are the stupid science deniers too.

 

[DaveC]

Oh, I forgot to add the environmental devastation allowed to occur resulting in climate change caused by the geezer's complete lack of foresight and greed. Whatever it takes to make short-term profit is the right thing to do I guess.

Maybe, if the geezers thought of the newer generations as their own children and grandchildren the world would be a better place...

Music gives us the opportunity to take a little break from life, relax and think a bit... take advantage of it.

 

[Al M.]

Oh, I forgot to add the environmental devastation allowed to occur resulting in climate change caused by the geezer's complete lack of foresight and greed. Whatever it takes to make short-term profit is the right thing to do I guess.

Maybe, if the geezers thought of the newer generations as their own children and grandchildren the world would be a better place...

+1

Funny, while you were posting this, I was just editing my prior post, pointing to the same thing.

 

[thedudeabides]

It's too bad the audience didn't have the balls to do that when John Cage's 4'33" was first performed. It might have helped put an end to that sort of crap.[/B]

I assume you are not implying that the "Rite" is a piece of crap and those many people that thoroughly enjoy listening to it (like me) are somehow misguided and lack the ability to decipher what is admittedly a brilliant composition versus what is crap. Suffice to say it was ahead of its time given what was accepted as the norm when the piece was first played.

I've also had numerous experiences over the years when I initially listened to a new piece of music and noted that "it was out there" yet years later, listen to it and find it "different" but "engaging".

And I assume the Cage "composition" you reference is 4'33" of silence. If so, I do agree with you on that particular piece.

 

[GaryProtein]

I assume you are not implying that the "Rite" is a piece of crap and those many people that thoroughly enjoy listening to it (like me) are somehow misguided and lack the ability to decipher what is admittedly a brilliant composition versus what is crap. Suffice to say it was ahead of its time given what was accepted as the norm when the piece was first played.

I've also had numerous experiences over the years when I initially listened to a new piece of music and noted that "it was out there" yet years later, listen to it and find it "different" but "engaging".

And I assume the Cage "composition" you reference is 4'33" of silence. If so, I do agree with you on that particular piece.

The Rite of Spring is perfectly fine, not quite as much to my liking as most music from roughly 1600 to 1850, but still a creditable work.

Cage was a musical charlatan.

 

[thedudeabides]

One interesting change for me.

I am listening to more chamber music than I have in the past.

Like it or not, Cage is a recognized "modern" composer amongst those who listen to "contemporary" classical music.

Same goes with Philip Glass.

But my current fav in that genre is George Crumb. "Haunted Landscapes" is a good starting point if anyone is interested.

 

[Steve Williams]

One interesting change for me.

I am listening to more chamber music than I have in the past.

Like it or not, Cage is a recognized "modern" composer amongst those who listen to "contemporary" classical music.

Same goes with Philip Glass.

But my current fav in that genre is George Crumb. "Haunted Landscapes" is a good starting point if anyone is interested.

I wish I could get more involved emotionally with contemporary (modern) classical music but every time I listen it is like the feeling I get with scratching a chalk board. I have tried so many times but each time I come up short. so good on you "dude". I admire your persistence

 

[GaryProtein]

One interesting change for me.

I am listening to more chamber music than I have in the past.

Like it or not, Cage is a recognized "modern" composer amongst those who listen to "contemporary" classical music.

Same goes with Philip Glass.

But my current fav in that genre is George Crumb. "Haunted Landscapes" is a good starting point if anyone is interested.

As with mediocre composers of the past, the passage of time will hopefully place them in the list of forgotten composers.

 

[thedudeabides]

Suffice to say I have a very different attitude towards composers and probably music in general.

Your mediocre may be my favorite and vice versa.

I really try to keep an open mind about this.

As with all things musical, there is no right or wrong. It's all personal and subjective in the end.

 

[Al M.]

Suffice to say I have a very different attitude towards composers and probably music in general.

Me too.

Your mediocre may be my favorite and vice versa.

I really try to keep an open mind about this.

As with all things musical, there is no right or wrong. It's all personal and subjective in the end.

Not quite. The canon of great classical composers has a reason. All of them, or almost all of them, really are great.

Also, when I tune into some piece of music on the radio that I have not heard before, more often than not I am right when I assume that what I am hearing must be from a composer who is considered to be among the really Greats, and on other occasions more often than not I am right when I assume that what I am hearing is probably from what is considered to be a 'second-tier' composer -- what it was becomes clear in either case by the name of the composer spelled out by the announcer at the end (it's certainly far from a statistical 50/50 coin toss in either of these scenarios). So no, it's not all quite subjective in the end. With some practice you can actually discern quality.

With contemporary music of course the bets are far more off in deciding what you find good -- there isn't an established 'canon' yet, even if already now some are considered greater than others.

I am just listening again, like I have done so often the past three weeks, to an avantgarde jazz CD by Garrison Fewell and his 'Variable Density Sound Orchestra' (don't let the name fool you, it's for rather small ensemble) from 2008. In my mind this is among the very best music I have heard, and at this point there is nobody who can prove me wrong. It is based on my own judgement which I am confident in.

 

[GaryProtein]

Not quite. The canon of great classical composers has a reason. All of them, or almost all of them, really are great.

That's because the good ones survived the test of time. The mediocre faded away.

 

[Al M.]

That's because the good ones survived the test of time. The mediocre faded away.

Of course. But in some cases it takes time for the recognition of greatness to take place. While JS Bach had been considered among the greats by insiders, especially fellow composers, all along, he was only re-discovered on a broader basis after a performance of the St. Matthew Passion by Mendelssohn in 1829, almost 80 years after his death. Beethoven's late string quartets have only been considered to be among the pinnacle of the string quartet repertoire since the 20th century. They were just too strange to the ears of his contemporaries.

 

[thedudeabides]

That's because the good ones survived the test of time. The mediocre faded away.

Way too black and white from my perspective.

Please explain "what is the test of time" and what mediocre composers "faded away"?

With current music, it's probably a year or two.

I look forward to you explaining, justifying your "relevance / non mediocre / GOOD matrix" WRT classical composers.

Please be specific if you can.

And yes Al, I agree with your statement that "it takes time for the recognition of greatness to take place".

 

[853guy]

That's because the good ones survived the test of time. The mediocre faded away.

Doesn’t every preceeding form of music give way to deconstruction from a new generation?

Romaticism gives way to impressionism, cool jazz gives way to modal jazz, blues gives way to rock and roll, disco gives way to Chicago house, rock gives way to punk, the golden age of hip hop gives way to gangsta rap, etc, etc.

Each generation takes what came before it and modifies and re-contextualizes it, often at the expense of offending the sensibilities of the establishment. You can of course dislike Cage’s compositional output, but it’s difficult to argue with his influence on the avant-garde, electroacoustic music, improvisation and modern dance. Sometimes an artist gives us less of a body of work to love, and more a prism through which history can be understood and critiqued. Picasso, Derrida and Cage would fall into that category. Certainly, their work is still relevant for anyone interested in art and culture today, and forms the basis of post-graduate studies the world over. In fact, those three in particular are almost impossible to escape when discussing aesthetics and its relationship to culture.

If one is interested in exploring Cage’s work, I’d say Stephen Drury’s performances on Cage: In A Landscape (Catalyst) are perhaps one of the more accessible ways to access Cage’s output, with beautiful sonics to boot.

 

[Steve Williams]

Brendon

I understand and agree with what you say but try as I may (and I have many times over) I just cannot cozy up to modern classical as it does nothing but negatively stimulate my senses. I do admit however that my intrusion into this genre as a result of said experiences has been superficial at best