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Thread: Fozgometer: 3 Test LP's and 3 Different Results....Now What?

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    Senior Member Grooves's Avatar
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    Fozgometer: 3 Test LP's and 3 Different Results....Now What?

    Being somewhat paranoid re: my TT set up due to many reasons of which I won't go in to (or admit to!). I now own 4 separate test Lp's. Three have a calibrated 1 kHz L, R, Center track for azimuth adjustment. The three are the RTI Denon "Audio Check", Cardas Audio Test Record, and Analogue Productions Test Lp. These have been acquired over the years with the AP disc being acquired recently. The main reason for buying the AP Lp was to settle the score between the results using the other two and my (calibrated) Fozgometer. Depending upon which Lp used I got moderately different results for setting azimuth on my Graham 2 and Phantom II-Supreme. Well, expecting some sort of solution (wishful thinking), now I have three separate results. The Cardas Lp has the least off axis clockwise rotation, with the AP requiring a (+) 1 full turn of the adj. knob clockwise and the Audio Check Lp requiring a (+) 1.5-2.0 clockwise turn of the knob. I decided to accept the Cardas setting for now since it has the least rotation off axis.
    I'm not sure how anyone can hope to use these w/o questioning how legitimate they actually are. While I use my ears as the final guide it would have ben nice to have them at least agree more closely and allow me to at least have a starting point. The one big beef I have is the the Phantom while having an indexed gauge for setting azimuth doesn't have a setting showing when the headshell should be at zero degrees. Or at least none that I've found to represent zero/neutral azimuth.
    If I could master the mirror method of azimuth adj. I must just use that but I never could use the mirror method.

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    Addicted to Best! cjfrbw's Avatar
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    Welcome to the world of error envelopes and error averaging. Your settings, even if you believe in them, will only generally apply to the record you make them on, not necessarily the running average of records you actually play.

    Better just to pick a position and enjoy your records.
    SME 30/2 Turntable, Da Vinci Grandezza Tonearm, Benz MC-3 Cartridge, Allnic HT 3000 head amp, Allnic H-3000 Phono, Allnic L 5000 preamp, Accuphase F 25, Analysis Audio Epsilon Speaker/foil tweeters in four way active crossover Amplification: Sony TAN 8550 VFET amp (26 DHT preamp driver)350-7000hz, Yamaha B-2 VFET amplifier (26 DHT preamp driver)80-350hz , 45 SET tube amp 7000Hz to infinity Hz, Yamaha RX Z9 plus Yamaha Aventage CX-A5000 preamp processor 9.4 surround sound.

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    Addicted to Best! pcosta's Avatar
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    I got rid of mine for that reason. Just like you three test records three different results. I tuned it by ear.

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    You think it is bad with azimuth? With a unipivot everything is connected. You change the VTF and your VTA is changed, as is your overhang, it never ends, not mention each record is cut differently. Try not to make yourself nuts. There just is NO correct setting for every record.

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    Senior Member Grooves's Avatar
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    It wasn't the set up that was making me nuts, just slightly crazed. When I get a consistently inconsistent issue that's what makes me NUTS! So I resort trying to determine what and why, hence the test records. SO far the current arrangement is sounding very nice so I won't change anything. But what's funny is that every time there's a perceived change in sound or performance I eventually find something that has slipped from alignment or has loosened and I find it when looking into something else.
    It's the 1 in 4 or 5 new Lp's that seemingly are pressed poorly and when it happens it's almost always in the right channel that the "pops"/"ticks" really show. But then the next side or next Lp or replacement Lp (though not always!) is fine. Now, if I can ever solve that one I'll become sane again.

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    [Industry Expert] ddk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grooves View Post
    If I could master the mirror method of azimuth adj. I must just use that but I never could use the mirror method.
    What about it do you find difficult, maybe I can help?
    david
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    Well I'm sure all 3 were cut on 3 different lathes with 3 different cutter heads and 3 different engineers cutting the lacquers with 3 slightly different settings!

    A man with 3 watches never really knows the exact time!!
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    Member Sponsor Addicted to Best! rockitman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce B View Post

    A man with 3 watches never really knows the exact time!!
    Unless they are Timex Quartz....
    Christian

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    Member Sponsor Addicted to Best! rockitman's Avatar
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    I use a 6mm bullseye bubble level on top of the head shell...weighs less than .5g to get a visual level reference point before fine tuning with the foz. If there isn't much deviation from the visual bubble level test.....and the cart cantilever is to spec, the foz is helpful in addition to the ear. The Foz calibration should be checked. I believe you download the test files from foz, burn a cd and plug the foz into the CD player with the test files playing and you adjust the foz if needed.
    Christian

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    Addicted to Best! audioarcher's Avatar
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    If records were perfectly flat it would be worth getting super fussy about azimuth. But since that never happens in real life it will never be right all the time. That said it is still desirable to set it so the stylus is not leaning to one side or the other. There should be less average error that way.

    If you have three test records then maybe the best approach would be to take the average of all three and go with that. Assuming the Foz device can be trusted to be accurate itself.

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