The point of diminishing returns for speakers is...?

[andromedaaudio]

Very true.

On the other hand, some expensive speakers can present music with a believability, or additional elements of believability, that less expensive speakers cannot match. This can lead to more engagement.

What makes speakers expensive is mostly the housing .
Large volume well designed speakers with large woofers are gonna cost you .

I agree with emphasis on " can "

 

[Lee]

Hello

So I guess you can't relate???

And so is engagement at a live performance!!! Either you are paying attention and enjoying the music or your not.

Do you really want to get into splitting hairs about defining precise levels or grades of engagement???

The amount of money spent is not important to engagement IMHO. Engagement is in your head not your pocket book.

Rob

This reply tells me you have never heard world class systems. More expensive gear does sound better just as surely more expensive sports cars offer a better driving experience.

 

[Robh3606]

This reply tells me you have never heard world class systems. More expensive gear does sound better just as surely more expensive sports cars offer a better driving experience.

Hello Lee

Why because I don't agree with you?? First off more expensive always sounds better is certainly not always the case.

Well I only spent 10k on my stereo! I can't possibly enjoy, have as much engagement, with the music as compared to a 100K system!

Really????

That is what your POV sounds like to me. Do I have it wrong???

I am music first, sound while important, takes a back seat.

I can have just as much fun listening with my I Pod or my "best" system. If you are not the same fine but you shouldn't be so dismissive in your replies.


Rob

 

[treitz3]

This reply tells me you have never heard world class systems. More expensive gear does sound better just as surely more expensive sports cars offer a better driving experience.

In your opinion. To me, money means nothing in this hobby. I have heard well over one million dollar systems that you could not pay me to listen too. On the flip side, I have heard modest systems that I could sit and enjoy all day long. I would advise not making such bold statements, stated as fact. Making generalized statements which create heated arguments is against the TOS of this forum (#9)

Your comment about him not hearing a world class system was honestly out of line and completely uncalled for. Please refrain from such comments moving forward.

Tom

 

[Lee]

In your opinion. To me, money means nothing in this hobby. I have heard well over one million dollar systems that you could not pay me to listen too. On the flip side, I have heard modest systems that I could sit and enjoy all day long. I would advise not making such bold statements, stated as fact. Making generalized statements which create heated arguments is against the TOS of this forum (#9)

Your comment about him not hearing a world class system was honestly out of line and completely uncalled for. Please refrain from such comments moving forward.

Tom

Tom, why don’t you apply this rule when Bonzo makes generalized statements about Wilson and Magico speakers not offering good performance? A lot of members here have Magico and Wilson speakers and find those remarks incendiary too.

As for my comments, it is my opinion based on experiencing many stereo systems. Modest systems can sound wonderful. I once had a great system with Magnepan 1.7s. But in my experience as you move up the line in a brand or in general, there seems to be more financial resources for a speaker designer to get more improvements in sound quality. We should not be surprised by this as this is how high performance manufacturing generally works in many industries. I made a video about this whole concept based on the reference quality sound I heard on the Magico M9s. I think most members here, including you, would be impressed by the lifelike playback Alon gets in his listening room.

The video I made noted that there are of course many products that offer high value for dollar. My feeling is that an audio forum should encourage us to share opinions so that members can make more informed decisions. If we follow Bruce’s advice, one might stop at a pair of Magnepans and be perfectly happy. But they would also miss the extra sound possible at higher price points.

It’s of course up to the member to figure what budget limit makes sense. But the history of this forum and the several member dinners I attended at RMAF is about a good number of us exploring the upper end of the hobby.

 

[Lee]

Hello Lee

Why because I don't agree with you?? First off more expensive always sounds better is certainly not always the case.

Well I only spent 10k on my stereo! I can't possibly enjoy, have as much engagement, with the music as compared to a 100K system!

Really????

That is what your POV sounds like to me. Do I have it wrong???

I am music first, sound while important, takes a back seat.

I can have just as much fun listening with my I Pod or my "best" system. If you are not the same fine but you shouldn't be so dismissive in your replies.


Rob

Rob,

We have to base the argument on, imho, excluding the impact of bad rooms and poor setup. We do have some common ground that there are million dollar systems set up badly that can sound awful. The horrific showing of a $1 million system at Axpona is a still sad memory.

As for your $10K system, I had a system like that most of my audio life. I thoroughly enjoyed my Maggie 1.7s with ARC gear. Of course, your system can be thoroughly enjoyable and I might enjoy it as well if I were to visit.

My only point is that the thinking that you don’t get something more with a $20K system or $50K or $100K or $400K system just doesn’t reflect my own personal experience.

My apologies if I was dismissive in my tone. If you are genuinely happy with what you have, I am sincerely happy for you.

 

[treitz3]

Tom, why don’t you apply this rule when Bonzo makes generalized statements about Wilson and Magico speakers not offering good performance? A lot of members here have Magico and Wilson speakers and find those remarks incendiary too.

If you have not realized, I came out of retirement after being out of admin duties on this forum for a stint. There is no way that we can read every post on a worldwide forum that is active 24/7. There is a simple solution with this.

Report the post and the moderation team will deal with it.

Your post above was read shortly after you posted it. You stated it as a fact, not an opinion. There is a difference.

Now, let's stick to the topic of the thread. Any further discussion about this can be handled privately, as to not disrupt the thread any more than it already has. Thank you.

Tom

 

[Lee]

If you have not realized, I came out of retirement after being out of admin duties on this forum for a stint. There is no way that we can read every post on a worldwide forum that is active 24/7. There is a simple solution with this.

Report the post and the moderation team will deal with it.

Your post above was read shortly after you posted it. You stated it as a fact, not an opinion. There is a difference.

Now, let's stick to the topic of the thread. Any further discussion about this can be handled privately, as to not disrupt the thread any more than it already has. Thank you.

Tom

Fair enough.

 

[Robh3606]

Rob,

We have to base on the argument, imho, excluding the impact of bad rooms and poor setup. We do have some common ground that there are million dollar systems set up badly that can sound awful. The horrific showing of a $1 million system at Axpona is a still sad memory.

As for your $10K system, I had a system like that most of my audio life. I thoroughly enjoyed my Maggie 1.7s with ARC gear. Of course, your system can be thoroughly enjoyable and I might enjoy it as well if I were to visit.

My only point is that the thinking that you don’t get something more with a $20K system or $50K or $100K or $400K system just doesn’t reflect my own personal experience.

My apologies if I was dismissive in my tone. If you are genuinely happy with what you have, I am sincerely happy for you.

Hello Lee

No harm no foul we actually agree that at times you do get improvements as the price goes higher.

We are just talking past each other WRT engagement which like speakers is highly personal and differs person to person.

I am a DIY speaker builder so I have been " upgrading" drivers in various systems as they "change and improve" as technology moves on.

Rob

 

[Lee]

Hello Lee

No harm no foul we actually agree that at times you do get improvements as the price goes higher.

We are just talking past each other WRT engagement which like speakers is highly personal and differs person to person.

I am a DIY speaker builder so I have been " upgrading" drivers in various systems as they "change and improve" as technology moves on.

Rob

Sounds good. If you ever get to Atlanta, you are very welcome to stop by and have a listen…

 

[microstrip]

In your opinion.

Surely.

To me, money means nothing in this hobby.

Well to me it means a lot. The more expensive system I have listened was by far the best.
Surely I could ask someone to change a few things in this system and make it sound miserable, than say that it was the worst system I had ever listened.

My opinion is that, in general, in this hobby more money wisely spent returns us a better system. Do you think that people look for expensive rare tubes because they find they sound worst? Or that a larger room with top acoustics is inferior to our usual listening rooms? Surely we have cases of money poorly spent.

I have heard well over one million dollar systems that you could not pay me to listen too.

Have you heard any system over one million dollars that you have enjoyed and could live with?

On the flip side, I have heard modest systems that I could sit and enjoy all day long. I would advise not making such bold statements, stated as fact. Making generalized statements which create heated arguments is against the TOS of this forum (#9)

Well, unfortunately many of our members make such generalized statements. We got used to them and they are now common practice in WBF.

 

[Rumpole]

I have heard well over one million dollar systems that you could not pay me to listen too.

Since Tom isn't available, I'll volunteer if anyone is hiring people to listen to their million dollar stereo systems.

I'm just going to state the obvious - the OP's question has a different answer for each of us depending on our preferences, rooms, music choices and financial circumstances. Maybe another way to frame the questions is: At what point did each of you get to diminishing returns in your system, or does that point not exist? I'm pretty sure I'll run out of $$$ before I get there.

 

[XV-1]

Tom, why don’t you apply this rule when Bonzo makes generalized statements about Wilson and Magico speakers not offering good performance? A lot of members here have Magico and Wilson speakers and find those remarks incendiary too.

Besides yourself, who feels Keds remarks regarding Wilson and Magico are incendiary?

I own Wilsons and I never have. It's Ked's opinion.
Oh that’s right, if someone doesn't agree with you, they have never heard an expensive system before.

Trouble is, Ked has heard plenty.

But, coming from such insightful worldly statements like, diminishing returns don't exist on speakers - what more would we expect from your cash for comment opinions.

 

[bonzo75]

This reply tells me you have never heard world class systems. More expensive gear does sound better just as surely more expensive sports cars offer a better driving experience.

So in the past few weeks after calling people "douchebag", "asshole", "small person", now you are insulting someone that he has never heard world class stereo systems. I am still wondering how you have not been banned 4 times. Then you bring me into a conversation randomly to distract the mod from your offences

 

[Bruce B]

Bruce, my first three speakers were Maggies and I am still a big fan of the brand. However, Magnepans can’t match the bass or musical involvement that’s possible with a pair of XVXs.

Which is why they are paired with 2 JL Audio subs... !

 

[Bruce B]

Rob,


My only point is that the thinking that you don’t get something more with a $20K system or $50K or $100K or $400K system just doesn’t reflect my own personal experience.

This thread is about "Diminishing Returns". That means the curve is not linear... it starts to plateau. Yes.... $50K or $100K or $400K speakers do sound better..... 2x or 4x better... Nope! The impovements are incremental... not monumental.. !!

The best way to improve your speakers is to fix your room!

 

[AudioHR]

This thread is about "Diminishing Returns". That means the curve is not linear... it starts to plateau. Yes.... $50K or $100K or $400K speakers do sound better..... 2x or 4x better... Nope! The impovements are incremental... not monumental.. !!

The best way to improve your speakers is to fix your room!

I think that if you have the disposable income why not go for what you feel is the very best. Still many if not most of us need to be satisfied with spending less than astronomic amounts. Find that diminishing point of return that you can afford.

I believe Bruce is correct in saying the best way to improve your speakers sound is to work on the acoustics in your room. Money spent on this would probably could be better spent and provide more sonic improvement than purchasing a statement speaker.

 

[andromedaaudio]

The point is 130 K euros .
Unfortunately Lee s magazines have had a much higher point , as kharma dioesn t advertise much so i assume they dont get much credit.
For the rest keep the money in your pocket , buy a nice Mc laren

 

[Audio_Karma]

Fischer & Fischer Slate Loudspeakers They are in the USA now at https://www.11stereo.com

 

[Lee]

The point is 130 K euros .
Unfortunately Lee s magazines have had a much higher point , as kharma dioesn t advertise much so i assume they dont get much credit.
For the rest keep the money in your pocket , buy a nice Mc laren

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I have heard these extensively. The Magico M9 is better.