Videos of Acoustically-Coupled Audio Recordings

[hopkins]

Rexp, here is a recent video of the same Sonny Rollins cut on my system. That first video is eight months old. This new one is after ddk came to fine tune the set up last fall. It is with the vintage Ortofon instead of the latest vdH Colibri, and the Lamm LP1 instead of the LP2.1. The comparison is pretty interesting.

Finally back to the intent of this thread: seeing and listening!

The overall sound signature has not changed dramatically it seems - but I did not compare back to the first video. The dynamic aspect of the system is well conveyed and it serves the music well. Yet, I would be curious to hear your system with a better microphone...but I hope saying this will not generate any more debate on the topic.

In no way related to your video, just a personal note: I wish there were a good digital version of this album in mono, as I would be curious to hear it.

As a side note, here is what Ralph Gleason wrote of this album in his Down Beat review in 1957:

"This album offers an unequalled opportunity on record to hear Rollins tenor almost isolated from any other instrument. It is exceptionally well recorded, there is no piano, Manne's drums never intrude, and Brown in many places plays an obligato accompaniment.

Thus Rollins' style and his personal skill and sound stand in a way completely revealed. It is an unusual style with unexpected twists of phrase, a discontinuity of line, great use of space and prolongation of notes (there's a repetition of a single note for a fadeout ending on Wagon Wheels that's fascinating). His tone is blustering, sometimes like a great angry shout, at other times charge with emotion to the point of shrillness. He has a way of laying out the boundaries of an idea and then exploring within its perimeter in which all of these attributes are used quite well."

I see you are trying to work on your room's acoustics ?

 

[Mike Lavigne]

We are all well aware of the limitations of system videos. Who cares whether a few people compare them to YouTube versions of tracks ?

we seem to like to add drama to create some fodder for conflict. it's Ron's nature to try and define positions and processes. talk it through in his own way. but it's no more than that. respect efforts towards embracing videos. let it happen.

 

[tima]

We are all well aware of the limitations of system videos. Who cares whether a few people compare them to YouTube versions of tracks ?

All videos have limitations. I am interested in people's system videos, particularly if one person posts videos of before and after a change and seeks input. The object there is the system, not the video. I am much less interested in non-user-system videos though they can be useful for learning about music. I have no interest in comparing a non-system video with a system video. Non-user-system videos typically say nothing about the system that made the video or how it was made; the only imprimatur is your opinion of the music. If you choose to compare non-system videos with system videos, that's your business but I will find little value in that. I think it is time to move beyond this topic.

 

[bonzo75]

It is kind of interesting. There are not many horn based systems here on WBF, even fewer now that ddk, Tang, and Audiophile Bill have left the forum. You have shared many horn system videos. People watch them and discuss them. Suddenly people complain that all we discuss here on WBF are SET/horn systems. Your videos, and the discussions they generate, have had an effect.

Thanks. Tang started the horn trend unashamedly posting his videos at that time and showing progress over time. I was anti video, till people responded spot on to my Munich 2019 videos (iphone 7+ videos, shhh). I also wondered when WBF became a SETs horn forum, but that is what people perceive.

The Cello, Violin, female and male vocals, large scale, rock etc video threads got very good viewership and people realized horns don't necessarily honk, and are outstanding on rock and large scale apart from small scale. WBF then started the sponsored videos section, so now industry has no choice but to post videos there. Which is good feedback for the designer as well, he will need to design to compete on video channels, where bad voicing will stand out more easily. Totaldac and others have done more video coverage of Munich this year. It's a great trend.

There are already some high budget converts to Altec. I get PMs from people who view the youtube channel and ask about Altec or TAD 4003. Sonrock had heard the Sigma MAAT at a show, then heard my videos and moved from Magico to Sigma MAAT. So, with videos + maybe some bit of exposure, people take the risk more easily rather than just relying on random poster posting about how godly his expensive stuff that no one else heard was. That is not going to change immediately, but with industry adding more and more videos, it will.

 

[hopkins]

This Rollins album has really good sound quality.
Here's an article discussing the recording process for albums at the time:

Remastering Three Jazz Classics

Remastering Three Jazz Classics: The Dave Brubeck Quartet, Art Pepper, and Sonny Rollins

www.historyofrecording.com

"Way Out West" was recorded with two microphones plugged in directly to a tape recorder (ampex 350-2).

Brilliant!

 

[bonzo75]

I had posted this couple of years ago as the reason for WBF becoming erm, What's best set horn forum

How Hi Fi Has Become a Standard Unto Itself

Someone today may want to put together a better than average hi fi system for reasons that did not exist 50 or 60 years ago in the golden-age of audio. Back then, everyone wanted a decent hi fi system to listen to music. Unlike today, music was typically heard live, unamplified, and played in a...

www.whatsbestforum.com

 

[Ron Resnick]

I would say their former posts took an absolutist stance and they were stubborn. . . . they . . . are reassessing their dogmatism in real time in front of us and changing their approach and respect for videos. They are no longer so dogmatic.

This is misleading.

June 17, 2019, Post #1 hereof:
I just don’t see how recording the acoustic output of high-end audio systems using the ADC in an iPhone, and then playing back that low quality and low resolution digital recording through the tiny, tinny iPhone speaker, bears any high-fidelity relation to the original analog stereo sound created by a meticulously assembled stereo system with carefully positioned loudspeakers.


September 4, 2020, Post #1,583 of "Sublime Sound":
[t]hat does not make the video useful for any comparative purpose, except possibly for two identical videos with only one component changed or adjustment made with everything else held constant. And even then I don't think it is worth very much.


Over time I have stated repeatedly substantially these same two views. These were my views at the beginning, and these are largely my views today.

The things that have changed are: my willingness to post videos of my own system; my willingness to listen to the videos of others upon request; my belief that listening to iPhone videos on the big stereo can reveal differences which are masked by playback on the iPhone (this realization arose out of a particular Kedar comparison request); and my willingness to experiment with external mics.

What has changed, or evolved, in my thinking is that I now believe that videos can give one a sense of the comparative tonal balance and a sense of the the comparative resolution between two different systems, especially if the same microphone and the same recording technique are used in both cases.

 

[Ron Resnick]

There are not many horn based systems here on WBF

This seems to me to be a sloppy assumption. What data is this based on? Is this based, at least, on a voluntary response poll of some kind so you have some factual basis as to what the denominator is (i.e., the number of "horn based systems here on WBF" based on voluntary responses)?

even fewer now that ddk, Tang, and Audiophile Bill have left the forum.

Compared to the number of registered members we have a relatively small number of active and vocal posters on any given topic. We have a small number of number of active and vocal horn speaker owner posters.

Three of the most active and vocal horn posters leave, and you come to your assumption above?

Yes, it is true, that when you reduce a number by three, it means there are three fewer.

 

[bonzo75]

Yes, it is true, that when you reduce a number by three, it means there are three fewer.

We will add 3 back when Ian, Rudolph and Francisco shift.

 

[DasguteOhr]

Zyx airy 3x tw 10.5 tonearm thorens td 124 - 1:20 silvercore sut raphael ortophonic IV tube pre-silvaweld 300b set amp works on fullrange coax. yamaha p 3500 below 80hz active 15"woofer open baffle.
Recording oppo reno 5G 9 feet away from the speaker hand held
Musik schiller symphonia one best liferecordings last 10 years.
Orginal youtube

My recording

P. S strong recommendation for all. discerning music with a large orchestra

 

[hopkins]

Zyx airy 3x tw 10.5 tonearm thorens td 124 - 1:20 silvercore sut raphael ortophonic IV tube pre-silvaweld 300b set amp works on fullrange coax. yamaha p 3500 below 80hz active 15"woofer open baffle.
Recording oppo reno 5G 9 feet away from the speaker hand held
Musik schiller symphonia one best liferecordings last 10 years.
Orginal youtube

My recording

P. S strong recommendation for all. discerning music with a large orchestra

My main impression here is simply that the sound is too distant, so it lacks body. You may want to try recording closer. It could be also due to your phone's microphone. No idea, but maybe test things further? I don't know if you get the same impression in your room - I would assume you don't - but if so you can also play around with the speaker placement.

 

[DasguteOhr]

My main impression here is simply that the sound is too distant, so it lacks body. You may want to try recording closer. It could be also due to your phone's microphone. No idea, but maybe test things further? I don't know if you get the same impression in your room - I would assume you don't - but if so you can also play around with the speaker placement.

Thanks for answering.
the real problem is the typical frequency response of smartphones. The decisive factor is the angle of the microphone. I did record in landscape format. the lack of body is between 150-500hz and below 50hz there is almost nothing.
the speakers are 10 feet apart i sit 11.5 feet away from the speakers. i sat up straight for the recording. the speakers are 4 feet away from every wall. i am satisfied with the sound.

 

[microstrip]

We will add 3 back when Ian, Rudolph and Francisco shift.

Even a few more if you include Mike, Al. M, Marty, Steve, Ron, John, Lee and a few hundred of our members ...

We can´t exclude it - some audiophiles are open mind and love changing. But the dogmatic, elitist and cohort oriented characteristics of some of the horn supporters in WBF makes it an unpleasant subject - they even do their best to avoid defining them properly. Do you know F. Toole appreciates horn speakers? I quote from his book his begging sentence on the subject "Belief that horns and waveguides are inherently colored is an idea that good modern designs have put to rest".

BTW, currently my main speakers are electrostatic dipoles.

 

[bonzo75]

Even a few more if you include Mike, Al. M, Marty, Steve, Ron, John, Lee and a few hundred of our members ...

We can´t exclude it - some audiophiles are open mind and love changing. But the dogmatic, elitist and cohort oriented characteristics of some of the horn supporters in WBF makes it an unpleasant subject - they even do their best to avoid defining them properly. Do you know F. Toole appreciates horn speakers? I quote from his book his begging sentence on the subject "Belief that horns and waveguides are inherently colored is an idea that good modern designs have put to rest".

BTW, currently my main speakers are electrostatic dipoles.

i know you love electrostats therefore included you in the shift.

Regarding the dogma…there is a lot of difference between the horn aficionados that unfortunately seem the same to every one. This is sad, because it shows the same level of experience that a non audiophile has to audiophiles…You are the guy with the big speaker aren’t you?

you don’t need to be convinced to audition Wilson. I got an easy XVX audition and many Alexandria’s. While the non horn people here need to be convinced to go out and try some horns they are not easily available for auditions

 

[microstrip]

Thanks for answering.
the real problem is the typical frequency response of smartphones. (...)

A lot more real problems - add the compression and the directivity. Considering the artifacts added by the iPhone recording people should listen in mono to iPhone videos. Stereo effects in such recordings are a fake and non predictable. It is one of the many reasons why they are not representative of the performance of high-end systems.

 

[Argonaut]

Do you know F. Toole appreciates horn speakers? I quote from his book his begging sentence on the subject "Belief that horns and waveguides are inherently colored is an idea that good modern designs have put to rest".

An interesting observation.

 

[Rensselaer]

This Rollins album has really good sound quality.
Here's an article discussing the recording process for albums at the time:

Remastering Three Jazz Classics

Remastering Three Jazz Classics: The Dave Brubeck Quartet, Art Pepper, and Sonny Rollins

www.historyofrecording.com

"Way Out West" was recorded with two microphones plugged in directly to a tape recorder (ampex 350-2).

Brilliant!

A brilliant recording, recorded simply with just two mics into the tape recorder...today, they are breaking up the signal on mixer consoles with harmonics plug-ins, faders, adding echo to vocals, chorus effects, changing stage size in order to make something that not only doesn't sound anywhere near as good, but also unreal sounding. Why?

 

[microstrip]

(...) While the non horn people here need to be convinced to go out and try some horns they are not easily available for auditions

Yes, the unobtainium and hard to listen are better dogmas ... IMO it does not boost people to listen to horns.

 

[Argonaut]

Why?

In order to have something new to sell.

 

[bonzo75]

Yes, the unobtainium and hard to listen are better dogmas ... IMO it does not boost people to listen to horns.

they are only hard to listen to because it is a negative cycle. Harder to listen to will imply less demand, so is less produced and becomes further harder to listen to. Therefore back to my post earlier on how with videos that equation changes