Do Mobile Fidelity Vinyl Re-issues Have a Digital Step in the Process?

[Audire]

Yes, but I can see the MoFi lawyers showing hundreds of written testimonies of prestigious audiophiles stating that these LPs sound better than anything else and people reporting about the great experiences they had listening to these recordings. IMHO in the end such lawsuit would be great marketing for MoFi and the existing LPs cut before the trial would become even more valuable.

Anyway a great subject for an episode of the Bull series!

Sounding better is subjective, outright fraud is not!

Those who purchased FrankenVinyl won’t get as much on resale. Other retailers lost sales do to false advertisements of others.

But an episode on Bull would be cool.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I can see the MoFi lawyers showing hundreds of written testimonies of prestigious audiophiles stating that these LPs sound better than anything else and people reporting about the great experiences they had listening to these recordings.

As a matter of satisfying the legal elements of a cause of action such as misrepresentation this is irrelevant.

 

[Drikus]

I suspect that Michael was just as trusting of the Mobile Fidelity press releases and statements as was I and other consumers.

Well, yes he did because he had told the owner of Music Direct/Mo-Fi that they had to respond asap to these rumours and literately just before the bomb dropped he got word from him that they were gonna release an official press release/statement in two weeks time.

 

[Ron Resnick]

they were gonna release an official press release/statement in two weeks time.

The company issuing an official press release which is honest, transparent and comprehensive is the professional, and the only professional, way to respond to this matter. Hopefully this press release will be intellectually honest and state clearly and specifically the numerous questions which have been raised about specific Mo-Fi marketing statements and charts and representations, and respond clearly and honestly to those questions, and explain the true mastering chain for each of the various classes of LP re-issues.

Handling this initially by inviting a YouTube fanboy who is unqualified to conduct a professional interview to ask questions of a group was a disappointing and unprofessional first “response.”

 

[Audire]

i hope this subject can soon run it's course, so negative. like a dark cloud. Stan Ricker must be tossing and turning in his grave....not to mention Tim dPv.

I agree that it’s a very negative topic. I’m, and I feel confident many others, are saddened that such a thing even took place at all. But we have to be able to trust the companies that master our music. I’m, and I’m sure you also, are glad this conversation to some extent is taking place.

We need to see what course this FrankenVinyl deception runs. Will MoFI be held responsible? I hope they are as this will be a wake up call to others in the industry. As I know you would agree, we need honesty, integrity, and transparency. … What will happen to our hobby without it?

I think many here have had some good ideas on how to move forward. I just want more (complete) transparency from manufactures going forward. Put it on your label and website what we are honestly getting. Then let us make our own decisions if we want it.

 

[mtemur]

The price is irrelevant.

Price is extremely relevant. nobody wants a Toyota Corolla when paid for a Mercedes S500.

Actually, that is not true. The hype stickers are always saying "Remastered from the Original Tapes." Bolded, etc etc.

Remastering from original master tapes can be done to digital. It doesn't have to be analog. "Remastered from the original master tapes" does not mean all analog chain in any way. I don't know which label uses that sentence but you've got a wrong impression if you think it's done all analog. On some occasions the vinyl with that sticker can be mastered all analog. It simply doesn't say enough.

On the other hand mofi advertised all analog mastering and explained the process with drawings skipping the digital stage. that is the problem.

 

[Drikus]

Saw a new YouTube video by Chad Kassem earlier today and he was browsing through a collection he just bought. Here's a screenshot of one of the many Japanese pressings of that collection, look what it says on the OBI, can't get more transparent than this;

 

[dminches]

On the other hand mofi advertised all analog mastering and explained the process with drawings skipping digital stage. mofi in every way totally analog chain.

This is the part I don’t understand. I have tons of MoFis. None of them say that the mastering chain is all analog (except the Ultra gain) and none say AAA. With the One Steps there is a picture which shows the original tapes followed by a lacquer. People assumed this means all analog when it didn’t necessarily. However, I don’t see how that can be defined at “advertised.”

I completely agree that they allowed people to assume it was AAA when they knew it wasn’t and that is wrong. I am not defending them. But, I disagree with the notion that they advertised they LPs were AAA because I don’t think they did. We just assumed they were.

 

[mtemur]

With the One Steps there is a picture which shows the original tapes followed by a lacquer.

that part.

 

[dminches]

that part.

I think one is filling in their own dots to say that picture says AAA. JMO.

Most of their releases are not one-steps and those releases do not have that picture. Are those ok?

 

[dan31]

I think one is filling in their own dots to say that picture says AAA. JMO.

Most of their releases are not one-steps and those releases do not have that picture. Are those ok?

Not ok. They totally mislead people. If you can’t see that, that is fine. For me MoFi is toast. I won’t sell what I have. I just won’t buy anything from MoFi going forward.

 

[Audire]

This is the part I don’t understand. I have tons of MoFis. None of them say that the mastering chain is all analog (except the Ultra gain) and none say AAA. With the One Steps there is a picture which shows the original tapes followed by a lacquer. People assumed this means all analog when it didn’t necessarily. However, I don’t see how that can be defined at “advertised.”

I completely agree that they allowed people to assume it was AAA when they knew it wasn’t and that is wrong. I am not defending them. But, I disagree with the notion that they advertised they LPs were AAA because I don’t think they did. We just assumed they were.

What would a reasonable person understand by MoFi’s pics and statements? As you stated, ”We just assumed they were” as that is the info they supplied to us. IMO, that’s still deception, fraud, etc.

And there are allegedly some emails (I don’t know the exact phrases used) that customers received stating their vinyl was 100% analogue. The exact phraseology may be in some of the posts above?

 

[mtemur]

I think one is filling in their own dots to say that picture says AAA. JMO.

Most of their releases are not one-steps and those releases do not have that picture. Are those ok?

no they're not ok. they have "original master recording" stripe on them. it shows the source of the vinyl. otherwise it wouldn't be written there. if the vinyl is cut from dsd what does that stripe stand for? can we consider a dsd transfer as an original master recording of an analog tape? do you think any label would ever accept to exchange their original master tapes with a dsd file?

through the years of existence of mofi anytime they talk or write about the mastering chain they only mentioned analog console, analog equipment, tape recorder, lathe etc but they simply omit dac. there is a video on youtube showing how mofi cut lacquers and it's all analog chain. Krieg Wunderlich is explaining the process as if they only cut from tape.

 

[dminches]

What would a reasonable person understand by MoFi’s pics and statements? As you stated, ”We just assumed they were” as that is the info they supplied to us. IMO, that’s still deception, fraud, etc.

And there are allegedly some emails (I don’t know the exact phrases used) that customers received stating their vinyl was 100% analogue. The exact phraseology may be in some of the posts above?

To me, unless something says "AAA" or "all analog" I don't assume it is. In fact, I assume it isn't since when it is people want to advertise that. I don't go by anything else, certainly not a picture. I do understand how others have drawn their conclusions.

I have not see any of the emails people have referenced so I can't speak to them.

On a side note, do you think any of the other companies that advertise "mastered from original tapes" are any different? It doesn't make it right but I don't believe MoFi is any more guilty of complete lack of transparency than any other re-issue label that does that.

When you "statements", what statements? I have not seen anything in writing on any press release or jacket cover or insert that says "all analog" when it isn't.

 

[hvbias]

If anyone knows the Mofi chaps, I'll work for master tape copies (real analog on reel please)

 

[Audire]

To me, unless something says "AAA" or "all analog" I don't assume it is. In fact, I assume it isn't since when it is people want to advertise that. I don't go by anything else, certainly not a picture. I do understand how others have drawn their conclusions.

I have not see any of the emails people have referenced so I can't speak to them.

On a side note, do you think any of the other companies that advertise "mastered from original tapes" are any different? It doesn't make it right but I don't believe MoFi is any more guilty of complete lack of transparency than any other re-issue label that does that.

This conversation is about MoFi, so I don’t desire to change topics mid-course. But if the shoe fits …

As mtemur sated, “they have "original master recording" stripe on them.” From this a reasonable audiophile would assume they are receiving vinyl made from the master tapes. So, the way these albums were marketed from the very beginning was IMO with the intent not to tell the whole story and thus deceive their purchasers.

 

[Ed.P]

I have not see any of the emails people have referenced so I can't speak to them.

from: MOFI Customer Service <cs@mofi.com>
date: 9 Oct 2020, 07:16
subject: mastering question
mailed-by: mofi.com

Thank you for your email, there is no analog to digital conversion in our vinyl cutting process. Any product that bears the ORIGINAL MASTER RECORDING stripe on the jacket lets the customer know that the Original Master Tape was used to produce the release.

Any product that bears the MOBILE FIDELITY SOUND LAB stripe on the jacket lets the customer know that, although it is possible that what we have is the original master, that tape could not be fully verified as such and, in the interest of honesty, is not granted the ORIGINAL MASTER RECORDING stripe. As information on the tapes boxes for non-master sources are sometimes wrong or not present, we will not be listing what generation the source is. It may only be a guess and thus could not be consistent from title to title. If a non-master source meets our standard we will use it. If it does not, we will reject it.

In addition, all titles on our main label are sourced from the original master tapes while; although the majority of Silver Label titles are sourced from the original tapes, there are some exceptions where the best available source is used. We do not use digital sources except in cases where the title’s original master was digital itself.

Customer Service

Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab

cs@mofi.com
Hours: M-F 9am-5pm

Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab has been cutting vinyl from digital since a long, long time ago...

Haven't heard the 45rpm. Just have the nice Winchester pressing. You may have the edge there. It’s not that much better. You’re good with the...

forums.stevehoffman.tv

 

[Lagonda]

On the contrary, I think that many people will try to forget it very fast. So many years spent appreciating and laudating the pure analog sound of DSD 256 or even other digital formats!

Or maybe it explains why so many of us have long stopped buying MOFI vinyl, they mostly sound like shit !

 

[Ron Resnick]

from: MOFI Customer Service <cs@mofi.com>
date: 9 Oct 2020, 07:16
subject: mastering question
mailed-by: mofi.com

Thank you for your email, there is no analog to digital conversion in our vinyl cutting process. Any product that bears the ORIGINAL MASTER RECORDING stripe on the jacket lets the customer know that the Original Master Tape was used to produce the release.

Any product that bears the MOBILE FIDELITY SOUND LAB stripe on the jacket lets the customer know that, although it is possible that what we have is the original master, that tape could not be fully verified as such and, in the interest of honesty, is not granted the ORIGINAL MASTER RECORDING stripe. As information on the tapes boxes for non-master sources are sometimes wrong or not present, we will not be listing what generation the source is. It may only be a guess and thus could not be consistent from title to title. If a non-master source meets our standard we will use it. If it does not, we will reject it.

In addition, all titles on our main label are sourced from the original master tapes while; although the majority of Silver Label titles are sourced from the original tapes, there are some exceptions where the best available source is used. We do not use digital sources except in cases where the title’s original master was digital itself.

Customer Service

Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab

cs@mofi.com
Hours: M-F 9am-5pm

Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab has been cutting vinyl from digital since a long, long time ago...

Haven't heard the 45rpm. Just have the nice Winchester pressing. You may have the edge there. It’s not that much better. You’re good with the...

forums.stevehoffman.tv

Thank you very much for posting this.

What is your take on this?

On a quick read of this e-mail I think this contains some of the oft-repeated statements which seek to dance between the raindrops and arguably are technically accurate, but which we now know are at least materially misleading.

 

[Ed.P]

They sure seem to flunk the 10b-5 standard: “To make any untrue statement of a material fact or to omit to state a material fact necessary in order to make the statements made, in the light of the circumstances under which they were made, not misleading.”