In search of a DAC which sounds excellent.

[Hyperion]

Give SW1X a try next time if you get the chance.

Home - SW1X Audio Design

SW1X Audio Design. Resurrecting the Soul of Music. Home of High Performance Audios, DAC, Mono & Stereo Amplifiers,Music Streamers, Speakers

sw1xad.co.uk

R-2R. NOS. Triodes. Single Ended Class A.

/ Marcus, www.perfect-sense.se

 

[Sablon Audio]

Give SW1X a try next time if you get the chance.

Home - SW1X Audio Design

SW1X Audio Design. Resurrecting the Soul of Music. Home of High Performance Audios, DAC, Mono & Stereo Amplifiers,Music Streamers, Speakers

sw1xad.co.uk

R-2R. NOS. Triodes. Single Ended Class A.

/ Marcus, www.perfect-sense.se

Funny you should mention this Marcus as I had a friend visit earlier and he spoke highly of the base model SW1X dac he had listened to in his CHP / Goebel system.

 

[sbnx]

242s are impossible to find. Also, I am going to save and invest in Horizon tubes soon. Still no ETA though, but I am on the list and that is what counts

I have a pair of 242 that i would sell. If you are interested then just PM me.

 

[Hyperion]

Funny you should mention this Marcus as I had a friend visit earlier and he spoke highly of the base model SW1X dac he had listened to in his CHP / Goebel system.

I've got a SW1X DAC III Balanced (approx. $12.000 I believe or thereabout) here since about a week. It's still settling in, but I'm hearing qualities from this unit that I just haven't done before, which really thrills my senses.

/ Marcus, www.perfect-sense.se

 

[jespera]

I like my abbas dacs. The new 3.2 is awesome.

Abbas designed the SW1X dacs 6-8 years ago.

 

[divertiti]

I have the Yggy OG (Yggy Analog 2) and had the OG Denafrips Terminator in my system. While initially the Terminator sounds impressive, I have soon discovered that it has an artificial souped-up timbre. The Yggy sounds much more like real instruments, even though it may sound less "hi-fi spectacular". I returned the Terminator and kept the Yggy. A friend with a very high-resolution system has sold his 10 x more expensive DAC and bought the Yggy instead. Another friend auditioned expensive DACs in that price range at home and settled on the Yggy as well.

I have the impression that most people don't get out of the Yggy what it really is capable of. The right power cable can also be essential. The USB connection is inferior (except perhaps the current Unison USB); any assessment based on it is compromised. I currently use BNC from reclocker after CD transport, and used AES/EBU before. The Yggy is a high-resolution DAC. Robert Harley's review of the first generation Yggy in TAS is pretty much spot on; the Analog 2 (OG) is even better.

For me, a truly high end DAC needs to firmly have both qualities. I've owned "musical" or "analog" dacs of the lower echelon, and each time I was not able to own them for long. At first they are pleasing, but I cannot escape the realization how much resolution and information is being blurred, homogenized and missing altogether. The missing information takes away that spooky imaging that high end dac can produce.

Of course all that is for my taste and musical preference, I imagine if someone who only listens to uncomplex and naturally recorded instrument music, the missing resolution isn't that big of a deal.

 

[LL21]

I've got a SW1X DAC III Balanced (approx. $12.000 I believe or thereabout) here since about a week. It's still settling in, but I'm hearing qualities from this unit that I just haven't done before, which really thrills my senses.

/ Marcus, www.perfect-sense.se

Funny you should mention this Marcus as I had a friend visit earlier and he spoke highly of the base model SW1X dac he had listened to in his CHP / Goebel system.

Intriguing. Certainly, a lot of the qualities described in the sound and the design of the SW1X are pillars for some listeners. Would certainly be interesting to hear.

 

[treitz3]

Within your price range, I would entertain the thought of or get your ears on an ANK 4.1 DAC (link below). Paired with a https://www.carousell.sg/p/audiolund-digital-cable-spdif-xtreme-series-1-0m-1088801316/ (make sure it is the 1.5 meter cable), the end result as to what hits your ears could be defined as "ear candy", even for the most discerning audiophile. Word of advice though....have him build it because DIY kits have horrible resale.

DAC 4.1 Limited Edition Triple C-Core – ANK Audio Kits

ankaudiokits.com

I have heard this exact DAC(4.1) personally on my system with a mid line Transparent digital cable and just comparing it to Marantz' TOTL DAC (as of 5 years ago) in the Marantz Reference SA7S1, using the Marantz as the source just on Redbook? There was no comparison. The Marantz fell short on just about every aspect conceivable and all of a sudden, turned into what I would refer to as "musical wallpaper". Quite the eye opener for me.

My buddy here in Charlotte has the bigger brother of this ANK DAC (the quad core 5.1) on a set of Utopia's. Very impressive. FWIW

Tom

 

[AMR / iFi audio]

Within your price range, I would entertain the thought of or get your ears on an ANK 4.1 DAC (link below). Paired with a https://www.carousell.sg/p/audiolund-digital-cable-spdif-xtreme-series-1-0m-1088801316/ (make sure it is the 1.5 meter cable), the end result as to what hits your ears could be defined as "ear candy", even for the most discerning audiophile. Word of advice though....have him build it because DIY kits have horrible resale.

DAC 4.1 Limited Edition Triple C-Core – ANK Audio Kits

ankaudiokits.com

I have heard this exact DAC(4.1) personally on my system with a mid line Transparent digital cable and just comparing it to Marantz' TOTL DAC (as of 5 years ago) in the Marantz Reference SA7S1, using the Marantz as the source just on Redbook? There was no comparison. The Marantz fell short on just about every aspect conceivable and all of a sudden, turned into what I would refer to as "musical wallpaper". Quite the eye opener for me.

My buddy here in Charlotte has the bigger brother of this ANK DAC (the quad core 5.1) on a set of Utopia's. Very impressive. FWIW

Tom

Interesting idea! I would ask the ANK to use the I2SoverUSB board instead of CM6631 they use. That would be a great upgrade! Also, swap the 5687 tubes for E182CC, as they are a better version of it.
The biggest issue with DIY is the resale value, but, if you get it right the price-to-performance ratio can be amazing!

 

[jespera]

Interesting idea! I would ask the ANK to use the I2SoverUSB board instead of CM6631 they use. That would be a great upgrade! Also, swap the 5687 tubes for E182CC, as they are a better version of it.
The biggest issue with DIY is the resale value, but, if you get it right the price-to-performance ratio can be amazing!

Better and easier (and probably cheaper) to get an abbas dac

 

[AMR / iFi audio]

Better and easier (and probably cheaper) to get an abbas dac

Might be, but ANK is more popular in terms of brand. Technically it is very similar to AN UK (don't know how close they are actually). Abbas is a super niche product compared to that. It all depends on what floats your boat.

 

[andromedaaudio]

For not to much money .

Zanden 5000
Mark levinson 360 S or ML 30.6
or a Audio research ref tube dac ,i saw one for sale for 6 K euros and it has usb connections.

 

[Atmasphere]

Just a FWIW: DACs are a digital product and for that reason are designed around the math and engineering of digital audio, things like Fourier and Nyquist, that sort of thing. For that single reason alone, whether you subscribe to measurements or not, a DAC really should measure well because if it does not, its not going to be able to retrieve all the bits, which is another way of saying that the signal coming out of it won't have the resolution it should.

I'm going to take this one step further, which is to say that the better a DAC gets, the more it will sound like any other DAC that measures as well. Bits being what they are

So here's my recommendation to at least try: The Topping D90SE. This DAC has balanced and single-ended outputs, accepts USB, S/Pdif, TOSLINK and Bluetooth, recognizes just about any codex. It is also one of the best measuring DACs out there. We've been using one for a while and IMO its quite neutral, neither bright or dark, just simply playing what is fed to it without editorial.

I'm sure you can spend more. And I know a lot of audiophiles might be uncomfortable spending so little (look up 'Veblen Goods' if you want to see what that is really about). But if you can put that aside and really just listen, I think you might find the Topping to really do the job.

 

[LL21]

For not to much money .

Zanden 5000
Mark levinson 360 S or ML 30.6
or a Audio research ref tube dac ,i saw one for sale for 6 K euros and it has usb connections.

Have never heard the ML digital but read much about its qualities years ago. Have heard ARC CD3, 5, 8, 9 I believe...been some time. Certainly a big fan of the Zanden digital. In today's world, would be particularly intrigued to hear:

- AN DAC 5th Element to understand why Martin Colloms (and others to be fair) were so unequivocally effusive to the extreme.
- Wadax Atlantis REF DAC
- Zanden Seikoh (when released)

 

[LL21]

Just a FWIW: DACs are a digital product and for that reason are designed around the math and engineering of digital audio, things like Fourier and Nyquist, that sort of thing. For that single reason alone, whether you subscribe to measurements or not, a DAC really should measure well because if it does not, its not going to be able to retrieve all the bits, which is another way of saying that the signal coming out of it won't have the resolution it should.

I'm going to take this one step further, which is to say that the better a DAC gets, the more it will sound like any other DAC that measures as well. Bits being what they are

So here's my recommendation to at least try: The Topping D90SE. This DAC has balanced and single-ended outputs, accepts USB, S/Pdif, TOSLINK and Bluetooth, recognizes just about any codex. It is also one of the best measuring DACs out there. We've been using one for a while and IMO its quite neutral, neither bright or dark, just simply playing what is fed to it without editorial.

I'm sure you can spend more. And I know a lot of audiophiles might be uncomfortable spending so little (look up 'Veblen Goods' if you want to see what that is really about). But if you can put that aside and really just listen, I think you might find the Topping to really do the job.

For those looking to read on further, I just happened to see this:

Topping D90SE DAC Review - The Absolute Sound

Steven Stone discovers the Topping D90SE, a perfect example of just how good today's inexpensive DACs have become.

www.theabsolutesound.com

 

[Sampajanna]

Just a FWIW: DACs are a digital product and for that reason are designed around the math and engineering of digital audio, things like Fourier and Nyquist, that sort of thing. For that single reason alone, whether you subscribe to measurements or not, a DAC really should measure well because if it does not, its not going to be able to retrieve all the bits, which is another way of saying that the signal coming out of it won't have the resolution it should.

I'm going to take this one step further, which is to say that the better a DAC gets, the more it will sound like any other DAC that measures as well. Bits being what they are

So here's my recommendation to at least try: The Topping D90SE. This DAC has balanced and single-ended outputs, accepts USB, S/Pdif, TOSLINK and Bluetooth, recognizes just about any codex. It is also one of the best measuring DACs out there. We've been using one for a while and IMO its quite neutral, neither bright or dark, just simply playing what is fed to it without editorial.

I'm sure you can spend more. And I know a lot of audiophiles might be uncomfortable spending so little (look up 'Veblen Goods' if you want to see what that is really about). But if you can put that aside and really just listen, I think you might find the Topping to really do the job.

I respect your opinion and am happy you found a good dac for your system, but I couldn’t disagree more. I do not think Topping dacs sound good….

Im not a computer. Do you order food at a restaurant after they give you a lab report on nutritional value?

“the better a DAC gets, the more it will sound like any other DAC that measures as well. Bits being what they are”

Again, why not eat tasteless slop with the right vitamins and minerals? The closer it gets to some measured “nutritional perfection,” the more all food will taste the same. The fact is, the sum IS more than the parts.

How do you know that what you are measuring matters to humans? How do you know you are measuring everything there is to measure? Are you seriously suggesting that we fully and completely understand listening, audio and sound, including the brain’s role?

This measurement debate is so tiring. My experience with the measurement crowd, like those over on ASR is that they are very negative, unhappy humans. They dont seem to be enjoying their systems or music at all. I love music and listen for enjoyment not to collect data measurements of ”accuracy”— whatever that even means? There is no soul in the music out of such dacs, no connection, no emotion. I dont bob my head at rock, lift my hands up and conduct the air for classical, make air-guitar motions or dance.

 

[morricab]

Just a FWIW: DACs are a digital product and for that reason are designed around the math and engineering of digital audio, things like Fourier and Nyquist, that sort of thing. For that single reason alone, whether you subscribe to measurements or not, a DAC really should measure well because if it does not, its not going to be able to retrieve all the bits, which is another way of saying that the signal coming out of it won't have the resolution it should.

I'm going to take this one step further, which is to say that the better a DAC gets, the more it will sound like any other DAC that measures as well. Bits being what they are

So here's my recommendation to at least try: The Topping D90SE. This DAC has balanced and single-ended outputs, accepts USB, S/Pdif, TOSLINK and Bluetooth, recognizes just about any codex. It is also one of the best measuring DACs out there. We've been using one for a while and IMO its quite neutral, neither bright or dark, just simply playing what is fed to it without editorial.

I'm sure you can spend more. And I know a lot of audiophiles might be uncomfortable spending so little (look up 'Veblen Goods' if you want to see what that is really about). But if you can put that aside and really just listen, I think you might find the Topping to really do the job.

I will only say that I find this to be a shocking post from someone who spent most of their career making OTLs and tube preamps preaching now about technical perfection for a DAC selection criterion! First class d and now this…

A friend of mine has a Topping DAC…it was easily sonically destroyed by a much worse measuring Ayon DAC…

 

[morricab]

Just a FWIW: DACs are a digital product and for that reason are designed around the math and engineering of digital audio, things like Fourier and Nyquist, that sort of thing. For that single reason alone, whether you subscribe to measurements or not, a DAC really should measure well because if it does not, its not going to be able to retrieve all the bits, which is another way of saying that the signal coming out of it won't have the resolution it should.

I'm going to take this one step further, which is to say that the better a DAC gets, the more it will sound like any other DAC that measures as well. Bits being what they are

So here's my recommendation to at least try: The Topping D90SE. This DAC has balanced and single-ended outputs, accepts USB, S/Pdif, TOSLINK and Bluetooth, recognizes just about any codex. It is also one of the best measuring DACs out there. We've been using one for a while and IMO its quite neutral, neither bright or dark, just simply playing what is fed to it without editorial.

I'm sure you can spend more. And I know a lot of audiophiles might be uncomfortable spending so little (look up 'Veblen Goods' if you want to see what that is really about). But if you can put that aside and really just listen, I think you might find the Topping to really do the job.

Given the impact of the analog output stage on the sound quality, how can you say that it is all math and engineering in the digital domain and therefore just go for the numbers?? Silly statement...I expect better from you ... did you actually listen??

 

[ICUToo]

a DAC really should measure well because if it does not, its not going to be able to retrieve all the bits, which is another way of saying that the signal coming out of it won't have the resolution it should.

I'm going to take this one step further, which is to say that the better a DAC gets, the more it will sound like any other DAC that measures as well.

Yep- Part 1 - I agree
Nope- Part 2 - what about the analogue parts? The power supply?
Because current goes INTO the DAC, then current comes out and gets played with before it goes into the (pre-) amp. ESPECIALLY R2R DACs, where the power supply is essentially passed straight to the outputs after the R2R.
So "perfect" DACs have several opportunities to sound different, which means they have an opportunity to sound better or worse.
That's not to say the Topping D90SE isn't very good- for the price, it's astonishing.
But it CAN be done better. And it is.

 

[rando]

I'm going to take this one step further, which is to say that the better a DAC gets, the more it will sound like any other DAC that measures as well. Bits being what they are

Possibly the most brilliant simple statement I've read on this site in some time.
On technical matters I would have a tough time pushing you off your chair.
In a digital to analog converter what ultimately matters is output of the latter.
Can safely state your experience in analog is well established.