State of the industry - Roy Gregory Editorial

[rbbert]

There are big threads on this, please read before jumping in. We have all been through the subject before.

I read them long ago; my comment was more about your phrase which I quoted. And Keith's comment was spot on; regardless of how far afield topic threads go, someone (usually you) starts throwing in irrelevant system videos.

 

[thedudeabides]

Waste of a million dollar sysystem.

With all due respect, who are you to judge the value, sound quality and personal enjoyment of someone else's system?

 

[andromedaaudio]

With all due respect, who are you to judge the value, sound quality and personal enjoyment of someone else's system?

And based on a you tube vid, sounds very premature to me .

 

[bonzo75]

With all due respect, who are you to judge the value, sound quality and personal enjoyment of someone else's system?

As this thread is getting to be one of those Charlie Chaplin type of scenes, it is only fair you join in by picking up a cake and throwing it at somebody.

 

[Hobblecreek]

If you are curious what the ordinary music (possibly budding HiFi) lover thinks of the sound of reasonably well-captured videos go here:

https://www.youtube.com/c/SoundSommelier/videos

Of course, the sound in these videos isn’t perfect but it is better than the audio associated with many that are out there. It does show what is possible.

Click on any video and then read the comments.

A video that can depict good sound (in the general sense) does not have to be reproduced at the typical WBF acceptance level and can be a spark to lead someone to explore in greater detail what improved audio has to offer.

My thoughts anyway.

 

[andromedaaudio]

With all due respect, who are you to judge the value, sound quality and personal enjoyment of someone else's system?

There is only one reason i want BTC to go to 500 K.

That is that ked finally will be able to purchase his system.and post system pics and videos.
Then we all can get the coke and popcorn out and start lecturing

 

[bonzo75]

If you are curious what the ordinary music (possibly budding HiFi) lover thinks of the sound of reasonably well-captured videos go here:

https://www.youtube.com/c/SoundSommelier/videos

Of course, the sound in these videos isn’t perfect but it is better than the audio associated with many that are out there. It does show what is possible.

Click on any video and then read the comments.

A video that can depict good sound (in the general sense) does not have to be reproduced at the typical WBF acceptance level and can be a spark to lead someone to explore in greater detail what improved audio has to offer.

My thoughts anyway.

These professional videos have good quality but are not representative. It is very easy to record with pro recorders, process sound quality, or take the output directly from the phono and overlay it on a picture. The end result will be better sound but not necessarily of the system.

 

[PeterA]

Aah, that's great to know, thanks. Since you told me about the audition, now I have, to some extent, a more direct aural reference of what you were experiencing.

This is precisely what Bonzo has been saying ad nauseam for a long time. The video supplements the written description. Ian has heard the speakers or similar in a different setting and says that that system live sounded like this system in video and presumably the video has more value to you now.

 

[sbnx]

These professional videos have good quality but are not representative. It is very easy to record with pro recorders, process sound quality, or take the output directly from the phono and overlay it on a picture. The end result will be better sound but not necessarily of the system.

Can you clarify this statement?? I agree that taking the output direct from the phono is not what the system sounds like at the listening position. But if I choose to record using a real mic and a Fostex FR-2 vs an iphone then that does not make that recording less legit. In fact it is more representative of what is heard at the MLP.

 

[morricab]

Lol If you cant convince anyone with words , throw in the vids .


Bulgaria ' thats nothing i have done 4 jungle trips into.the amazon jungle /peru bolivia and equador , still couldnt find a good horn

Your horn bashing is frankly silly. If you haven’t heard really good examples then get out more. Like all speaker types there are better and worse examples...but I would argue the top end of performance is higher with horns than cone/domes.

 

[morricab]

Luckily nobody is forced to buy anything in high end audio .

Some like a horn go buy one some like a wilson go buy one and apparently there are a lot more of the latter then the former.

Some like to DIY it all together , only one word " Just do it"

Certain horn lovers are just bad losers.
Critisize a horn and u get a endless discussion as to why your opinion is wrong

Losers? WTF are you even babbling about? This isn’t a sport (although moving some amps could count as power lifting). You are just digging your heels in without real experience.

 

[bonzo75]

Can you clarify this statement?? I agree that taking the output direct from the phono is not what the system sounds like at the listening position. But if I choose to record using a real mic and a Fostex FR-2 vs an iphone then that does not make that recording less legit. In fact it is more representative of what is heard at the MLP.

Look for in room ambience or noise. Some who do it with pro mics seem to have no feeling of being on seat, it is very closed in like you are next to the speaker type surround, no room reflection, and is seamless. When you hear this in room, it is very easy to see differences in coherence, or room issues, which are not captured with these mics. Often happens with Munich type show videos. I have no idea how that is done.

Two quality channels are https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5gMBC3aDSNJvCYTOxtC5tQ and https://www.youtube.com/user/osiposip61

But in the latter one, 90% of the videos are excellent without any inroom ambience. I have no idea how she does that. The first one i s a pro mic but realistic imo.

Mobile phone videos might have lower quality sound but are honest and comparable across as everyone has iphone or samnsung and differences between the two are relatively lower. I have often thought of getting a mic for my visits but then it will not be comparable. Maybe I will to take some with both mobile and pro mic to show the difference.

The thing is not about looking for high quality output sound, but to look for attributes of the system. I could easily post horn audio from La jazz audio or from sound sommelier, a channel which I have viewed often, but i don't think it is representative.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Losers? WTF are you even babbling about? This isn’t a sport (although moving some amps could count as power lifting). You are just digging your heels in without real experience.

You just comfiirmed my point .
Thanks .
Lets get back on topic regarding roy gregory s description of the industry this thread isnt about horns

 

[Lee]

Yeah, I think this is the on-line thing that Roy is talking about. It seems the industry is currently stuck in the 20th century. Lee posted early on about the ever increasing costs of paper and ink. One way around this is to get rid of the paper and ink. To be fair I have not done all of the business analysis around print subscription vs youtube. But I know I would pay for a subscription to a TAS youtube channel if the content is there. I would much rather watch a series of videos than read a review. Jay is up to 10,000 subscribers which should say something. The youtube videos, in general, are much more engaging and educational. Besides Jay there is Hans Beekhuyzen, GR Research, Darko audio, New Record Day, and many others. All of these people are just single, passionate individuals producing great content. Much like Harry Pearson was back in the day when printed magazines were the way to communicate to a large audience of enthusiasts. I am struggling to understand how a company that already has a fleet of reviewers and the respect of the industry can't make this happen.

For a TAS youtube review , take the RH review of the XVX system as an example. I see a whole series of videos for this. one that focuses on the unpackaging and setup. One that would be an interview with Stirling Trayle on his observations of the setup process. One where RH talks about what all he is hearing and describes the sound and then, of course, a video or two where some recordings are done of music playing on the system. Of course, each of the videos is going to have advertising just like all youtube videos do. but in this case the advertising would be audio related.

I can hear you guys now -- "Youtube sound is so bad why bother." Two reasons. One is that I can't hear anything when I read a RH review. The second is that even with cheap headphones I can hear a clear difference between two presentations in Jay's videos. For example, when he compared the solid state (Gryphon,Solution) vs Tube (VAC 450,Master) it was very easy to hear. But, an even better solution would be to put the FLAC files up on a server for download/streaming. Then we don't have the compression thing on youtube.

Maybe Lee is already working on this. I hope so. Too slow to change and evolution usually takes care of these things.

Now this is an interesting post. And a quite fine one since my first business trip at Nextscreen (parent of TAS and hi-fi+) was to visit Robert and watch the installation of the XVX Chronosonic speakers. This was one of the best trips I have been on. The sound of course was terrific but I learned so much watching Peter McGrath, John Giolas, and Tyler McGrath setup the room. Even better, it began a wonderful business relationship with Robert Harley who I value highly. For those who don't know, Robert has one of the fines custom-built listening spaces in the country.

This trip occurred three years ago and sadly TAS was not positioned for a video team to attend at the time. We are now, after two years of strategy discussion and operational work, about to begin the new video channel. We just hired a Digital Managing Editor to help out.

Our view is that videos are valuable for the industry. We applaud all the folks doing it from John Darko to Ron Brenay to Steve Guttenberg to Jay. They are attracting new audiences to the hobby and building further engagement with current audiophiles. These folks are not competitors to TAS but rather partners in generating excitement for the hobby.

But where Nextscreen diverges is that we feel videos should be part of a customer purchasing journey where videos build awareness of what is possible and then more in-depth coverage of reviews generate additional interest and learning. There is no substitute for the insights that an experienced reviewer living with a product for a few months can create. Of course, the ultimate step is to get more people in front of the speakers at a local dealer so they can get a mindset-changing experience around what is possible.

TAS will also do videos on anything related to music, both in front of and behind the microphone. And we will look at how a wide variety of audiophiles enjoy the hobby.

Like any channel, it will take time and build slowly. But we have patient capital. And the team here built Winding Road to over 1 million subscribers and growing...so we know a thing or two.

 

[morricab]

These professional videos have good quality but are not representative. It is very easy to record with pro recorders, process sound quality, or take the output directly from the phono and overlay it on a picture. The end result will be better sound but not necessarily of the system.

Don’t agree. A pro recorder at the listening position will be a lot more representative than a phone recording. I have done both. Taking a line out from the phono is cheating.

 

[Lee]

Those of you wanting to hear good sound in videos might want to check out Synergistic Research. Ted Denney and I are friends and I recommended a recording system that worked well for me on professional recordings in the past. We used AKG 414 microphones and a Sound Devices box. With proper mic placement, the sound quality can be good enough to make some sound judgments, even over video.

 

[bonzo75]

Don’t agree. A pro recorder at the listening position will be a lot more representative than a phone recording. I have done both. Taking a line out from the phono is cheating.

Maybe some of these pro channels cheat. Unless they state what they are doing well never know but many videos are too good And too seamless which doesn't exist. There are processing apps

You could post both pro and mobile for a compare.

 

[HenryD]

You just comfiirmed my point .
Thanks .
Lets get back on topic regarding roy gregory s description of the industry this thread isnt about horns

But that's the problem, so many threads, at one point or another, become a vintage/horn thread, all thanks to 2-3 persistent warriors

 

[morricab]

You just comfiirmed my point .
Thanks .
Lets get back on topic regarding roy gregory s description of the industry this thread isnt about horns

And you just dodged rather than addressing what you say when challenged...I confirmed nothing...easy for you to say something...get experience then sling mud.

 

[gleeds]

Now this is an interesting post. And a quite fine one since my first business trip at Nextscreen (parent of TAS and hi-fi+) was to visit Robert and watch the installation of the XVX Chronosonic speakers. This was one of the best trips I have been on. The sound of course was terrific but I learned so much watching Peter McGrath, John Giolas, and Tyler McGrath setup the room. Even better, it began a wonderful business relationship with Robert Harley who I value highly. For those who don't know, Robert has one of the fines custom-built listening spaces in the country.

This trip occurred three years ago and sadly TAS was not positioned for a video team to attend at the time. We are now, after two years of strategy discussion and operational work, about to begin the new video channel. We just hired a Digital Managing Editor to help out.

Our view is that videos are valuable for the industry. We applaud all the folks doing it from John Darko to Ron Brenay to Steve Guttenberg to Jay. They are attracting new audiences to the hobby and building further engagement with current audiophiles. These folks are not competitors to TAS but rather partners in generating excitement for the hobby.

But where Nextscreen diverges is that we feel videos should be part of a customer purchasing journey where videos build awareness of what is possible and then more in-depth coverage of reviews generate additional interest and learning. There is no substitute for the insights that an experienced reviewer living with a product for a few months can create. Of course, the ultimate step is to get more people in front of the speakers at a local dealer so they can get a mindset-changing experience around what is possible.

TAS will also do videos on anything related to music, both in front of and behind the microphone. And we will look at how a wide variety of audiophiles enjoy the hobby.

Like any channel, it will take time and build slowly. But we have patient capital. And the team here built Winding Road to over 1 million subscribers and growing...so we know a thing or two.

Best of luck with the video channel Lee! I'm looking forward to seeing the level of production values TAS brings to the party as IMHO that is one of the missing equations offered by many of the current YouTube video channels.