Audiophile power cords vs. the cables in your walls

[Atmasphere]

So, from your experience, you don’t see a fuse as a weak link (in terms of sound quality in the electrical circuit) until it’s heating up and about to blow?

The fuse is of course intended as a weak link. And in terms of sound quality its a very minor player.

You can measure the voltage drop across a fuse holder, and you will find (if you cause your hand to move to do the required actions) that the voltage drop corresponds to the differences you hear. Often that has more to do with how well the fuse actually fits in the holder rather than if its boutique or not. As long as the power supplies are able to function properly in the circuit (for example in our MP-1 preamp, which has all of its supplies regulated and all of which don't drop out until the AC line gets below about 105V) the fuse will impose no sound.

So the takeaway is that if you hear the sound of the fuse (and its not simply expectation bias, which has to be considered) it suggests that a power supply or supplies in the the unit under audition is unregulated.

Fun facts dept.:
We discovered audible fuse and power cord issues about 33 years ago. So in 1990, when designing our flagship amp (our MA-2, a 220 Watt class A triode OTL) we designed the fuse system and internal wiring to minimize its effect. To this end, the amp employs dual power cords for the supplies in the amp, and FMA-style fuses which have far better contacts on the fuse and also in the holder (which also exerts far more pressure on the fuse contacts). In effect, we had our own boutique fuses before any such thing existed.

 

[Rensselaer]

The fuse is of course intended as a weak link. And in terms of sound quality its a very minor player.

You can measure the voltage drop across a fuse holder, and you will find (if you cause your hand to move to do the required actions) that the voltage drop corresponds to the differences you hear. Often that has more to do with how well the fuse actually fits in the holder rather than if its boutique or not. As long as the power supplies are able to function properly in the circuit (for example in our MP-1 preamp, which has all of its supplies regulated and all of which don't drop out until the AC line gets below about 105V) the fuse will impose no sound.

So the takeaway is that if you hear the sound of the fuse (and its not simply expectation bias, which has to be considered) it suggests that a power supply or supplies in the the unit under audition is unregulated.

Fun facts dept.:
We discovered audible fuse and power cord issues about 33 years ago. So in 1990, when designing our flagship amp (our MA-2, a 220 Watt class A triode OTL) we designed the fuse system and internal wiring to minimize its effect. To this end, the amp employs dual power cords for the supplies in the amp, and FMA-style fuses which have far better contacts on the fuse and also in the holder (which also exerts far more pressure on the fuse contacts). In effect, we had our own boutique fuses before any such thing existed.

So boutique fuses are not worth the money, just ensure good contact in the fuse holder?

 

[twitch]

So boutique fuses are not worth the money, just ensure good contact in the fuse holder?

what kind of Kool-Aid do you prefer ............

 

[Rensselaer]

what kind of Kool-Aid do you prefer ............

I always preferred the Coke-flavoured Fizzy's. Go better with Rum.

 

[Atmasphere]

So boutique fuses are not worth the money, just ensure good contact in the fuse holder?

Yes- if its a good quality fuse like Bussman or Littlefuse.

 

[Rensselaer]

Yes- if its a good quality fuse like Bussman or Littlefuse.

eh, not impressed with Synergistic Research Orange "subjective view" that they improve sound stage, timbral accuracy, silence between notes and promote World Peace?

 

[Kingrex]

This does not make sense to me. If using seperate power cords, each with its own 13A fuse you'll get less voltage drop- hence less degradation on that account.

I agree. And I always advocate simple. Adding a power strip and cord is adding 6 more pressure only contact points in the power chain. As well as all the dissimilar metal contact.

 

[Kingrex]

The fuse is of course intended as a weak link. And in terms of sound quality its a very minor player.

You can measure the voltage drop across a fuse holder, and you will find (if you cause your hand to move to do the required actions) that the voltage drop corresponds to the differences you hear. Often that has more to do with how well the fuse actually fits in the holder rather than if its boutique or not. As long as the power supplies are able to function properly in the circuit (for example in our MP-1 preamp, which has all of its supplies regulated and all of which don't drop out until the AC line gets below about 105V) the fuse will impose no sound.

So the takeaway is that if you hear the sound of the fuse (and its not simply expectation bias, which has to be considered) it suggests that a power supply or supplies in the the unit under audition is unregulated.

Fun facts dept.:
We discovered audible fuse and power cord issues about 33 years ago. So in 1990, when designing our flagship amp (our MA-2, a 220 Watt class A triode OTL) we designed the fuse system and internal wiring to minimize its effect. To this end, the amp employs dual power cords for the supplies in the amp, and FMA-style fuses which have far better contacts on the fuse and also in the holder (which also exerts far more pressure on the fuse contacts). In effect, we had our own boutique fuses before any such thing existed.

This is synonymous with how I view power cords and why they voice so much. They are based upon multiple sets of preasure contacts. Some fairly inferior. Some better. But they are all pressure. From the wire in the wall screw clamped to the back of a receptacle all the way to the iec inlet in your amp. A minimum of 6 points of contact, pressure only. Really 12 when you consider AC and the neutral return path.

There is little you can do about a fuse block in your equipment, outside pay a technician to change it. If your equipment is old, you could use a small piece of green pad and alchohol to clean the contacts. Be careful not to bend the tabs. This would make things worse. And the pad need only be damp, not dripping. And have clean swabs ready to wipe excess liquid and contaminants loosened by the cleaning from the fuse block blades.

And per another thread here, you could try wrapping the fuse glass with tape to reduce vibrations in the glass. This could cause heat build up. But a forum member with a lab has measured reduced vibration in the fuse when current is applied. I tried it and heard nothing. But hey, it may work different for other.

I have performed cleaning of contacts in fuse blocks, receptacles and tube pins. It can have a profound impact on playback.
Rex

 

[Atmasphere]

eh, not impressed with Synergistic Research Orange "subjective view" that they improve sound stage, timbral accuracy, silence between notes and promote World Peace?

IMO if you really want to make an improvement with fuses a precisely built fuseholder would do more good rather than the fuse, especially if it used a threaded fusecap to allow you to put more pressure on the fuse. That is one of the major advantages of the fuse types we use in out MA-2. Rex's comments above are spot on.

 

[cfgardei1]

Well, that settles it. I am going off the forum. I'm heading to India with a gallon of distilled water. As long as that gallon doesn't mix with the poop, it will stay pure. I've also cut 6 feet out of the power cord feeding my house, so the electric company can't bill me for the energy in THAT 6 feet!!

 

[cfgardei1]

Well, that settles it. I am going off the forum. I'm heading to India with a gallon of distilled water. As long as that gallon doesn't mix with the poop, it will stay pure. I've also cut 6 feet out of the power cord feeding my house, so the electric company can't bill me for the energy in THAT 6 feet!!

My wife says I'm a rabble rouser, but she likes my power cord

 

[Kingrex]

I kind of missed the joke? But I like rabble rousers. As long as they aren't rabbling me.

 

[cfgardei1]

If you don't allow yourself to be rabbled, then it can't be you...

The joke requires too much reading to find all the threads, but to those intended to rabble, they know who they are...

 

[kennyb123]

I kind of missed the joke?

Seems like maybe there is a need for a humor conditioner that can strip away the noise that keeps the humor from emerging.

I am going off the forum. I'm heading to India with a gallon of distilled water. As long as that gallon doesn't mix with the poop, it will stay pure. I've also cut 6 feet out of the power cord feeding my house, so the electric company can't bill me for the energy in THAT 6 feet!!

Not sure what you are arguing but I just wanted to chime in to share Shunyata’s take on likening the flow of AC current to the flow of water:

Power Cord Misconceptions - Shunyata Research

There are many power cord misconceptions in the market. Here, we will address these issues and how Shunyata Research relates. How can an aftermarket power cord, which represents the last 6 feet or so of many miles of cheap in-wall and underground wiring, make any difference at all to sound or...

shunyata.com

TLDR; no, they both don’t flow the same way:

“Actually, the component sits between two power conductors: the hot and the neutral. AC power oscillates (alternates) back and forth at a 50-60hz rate. So power does not pour into the component at all. The component’s power supply is within a complex network of wires and connectors. Due to their obvious proximity, ALL of the wire and connectors can and do affect the performance of the component’s power supply.”

 

[Kingrex]

Good article.
I saw a line where the length of the conductor influences the ability of the cord to deal with component based noise. This is one of the reasons I specify multiple branch wires to the room. Why I say separate branches for amps and digital and front end. Your putting an additional 20 to 40 feet of wire between each device. I have been called out on this and asked to provide scientific measurements to prove multiple conductors are better than a single branch conductor. I usually don't have the math. I am not an engineer or scientist. I am a lowly electrician who has the time and expertise to run all sorts of wire and listen. I also read and absorb what experts in the industry say. Then I try to repeat what they say and evaluate the performance. I prefer multiple branch wires. It seems Caelin is also finding some additional length in a power cord is beneficial.

From Shunyata:
Since a power cord is composed of a hot and neutral wire that the component sits between, a change in the length of the cord will increase the size of the “buffer” around the component. In the specific case of Shunyata Research — we use patented noise-isolating geometries, shielding and a patented compound that absorbs EMI in some power cord models. Increasing the length of the cable, increases the noise isolation, or coupling effect to the ZrCa-2000 compounds, therefore increasing the performance of the cable.

In general, Shunyata Research does not recommend a power cord that is shorter than 3 feet or 1 meter in length for performance ease of use and, or resale reasons.

 

[kennyb123]

It seems Caelin is also finding some additional length in a power cord is beneficial.

Many years ago when Roy Gregory was with Nordost he arranged to have some power cords sent out so I could host a listening session amongst friends with all of us still being somewhat skeptical about them being able to make that much of a difference. He insisted on us hearing a “full loom” of power cords so he sent enough cords so we could have all main components using the exact same cord. Most cords were 2m but he also tossed in a 4m cord and encouraged using that between wall and Nordost QBase distributor (which he also sent out). Two levels of cord arrived, their entry model (then called Magus but now Blue Heaven) and also Vishnu, which was two levels up. The few of us that got to hear the 2m compared to the 4m cord all agreed that the longer sounded better.

 

[Kingrex]

When I got my preamp I had sibilance issues. Or just weird issues. The maker, Emmanuel of First Sound brought a loom or cheap power cords over. One by one we removed all the whatever audiophile power cords from my system and replaced them with $20 cords. The last cord was transformative. A loom of $20 cords all about 4 feet in length was way better than a pile of supposed audio cords that were $250 to $500. Currently my monoblocks, server and DAC use a Found Music cord and my preamp which is also duel mono uses 2 direct wired cords I made myself. My Torus RM20 is also fed by a Found Music cord. I'm happy.

 

[Anton D]

Wow, this topic can be a ball of snakes.

If you try a fancy cord and don't hear an improvement, then your system is either not resolving enough or you are deaf.

If you hear an improvement, then you are fooling yourself with snake oil and placebo.

There is no winning position except one....

Bottom line, if you want the real scoop: You must have a dedicated line used only for your Hi Fi, with a whole circuit power conditioner at the breaker box (or a true fuse box if you are a tube person) and all connections - to AC outlets and the connections to each component must be soldered into place so you reduce vibrational loss between connections and maintain a more 'true' AC supply line.

In for a Penny, in for a Pound.

Also, none of that fancy fuse stuff: all fuses need to be bypassed and the line kept clean. Yes, things may halt and catch fire sometimes, but that's a small price to pay for seeking a more perfect union.

 

[Kingrex]

Wow, this topic can be a ball of snakes.

If you try a fancy cord and don't hear an improvement, then your system is either not resolving enough or you are deaf.

If you hear an improvement, then you are fooling yourself with snake oil and placebo.

There is no winning position except one....

Bottom line, if you want the real scoop: You must have a dedicated line used only for your Hi Fi, with a whole circuit power conditioner at the breaker box (or a true fuse box if you are a tube person) and all connections - to AC outlets and the connections to each component must be soldered into place so you reduce vibrational loss between connections and maintain a more 'true' AC supply line.

In for a Penny, in for a Pound.

Also, none of that fancy fuse stuff: all fuses need to be bypassed and the line kept clean. Yes, things may halt and catch fire sometimes, but that's a small price to pay for seeking a more perfect union.

There are pieces of truth in what you say. Needs a lot of refining.

 

[kennyb123]

There are pieces of truth in what you say. Needs a lot of refining.

Good assessment. I thought it would have been more convincing without the appeals to extremes. Just because bypassing fuses altogether might be best, it doesn’t mean that one can’t get impressive improvements from swapping stock fuses for better audiophiles fuses. And while a dedicated line can be one of the best moves, incremental improvements can still be realized without one.