Measuring power line capacity with the IDEAL SureTest, and the effect of Shunyata power products

[ack]

First of all, thanks to @VLS again for introducing me to to the IDEAL SureTest 61-164 circuit analyzer https://www.amazon.com/Ideal-Industries-INC-Circuit-Analyzer/dp/B08NPPGKKW which retails for some $400

This device measures power line phase, voltage, impedance, leakage to ground, and peak Amperage availability using two algorithms. Although I think it's a great device, it does not provide continuous info other than Voltage, which means the data is a snapshot at the time you power it on, and that's a real pain when trying to get a sense of fluctuation especially current.

To cut to the chase, VLS in this post https://whatsbestforum.com/threads/...fect-of-shyunyata-products.33031/#post-722583 claims to be getting HIGHER amperage out of the Denali v2 and Sigma power cords over a random stock power cord, and he included the following table:

However, I am UNABLE TO CORROBORATE these findings, as shown below. CONFIRMED, SEE BELOW

First, some basic of in-house measurements.

Phase:



Leakage to ground - 0.6V:

 

[ack]

Next up

Power capacity in a non-audio line, ASCC1 and ASCC2 tests:





Power capacity in Audio Line1, ASCC1 and ASCC2 tests - TAKE 1 :

 

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Next, measuring Audio Line1 again after 10 minutes or so. Significant drop, not sure what caused it, A/C was not running, but could be the fridge nearby :

Power capacity in Audio Line1, ASCC1 and ASCC2 tests - TAKE 2 :

 

[ack]

Next, the effect of the Shunyata Denali v2 + Venom power cords:

Audio Line2, Denali v2 IN:




Denali v2 OUT:



This clearly shows the max current draw out of the Denali is LOWER than what's coming in

 

[ack]

Next, the Denali is feeding an MIT distribution box, and out of it comes a Shunyata power cord:

Current draw at MIT outlet/V10 NR cord IN:



Current draw at V10 NR cord OUT:

 

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Finally, how they do these measurements:

ASCC1 and ASCC2 tests

 

[ack]

The bottom line with this device - and considering that the power amps are OFF - with respect to instantaneous current delivery is that:

1) Multiple dedicated lines probably can provide higher current capacity, judging by how audio lines compare with non-audio lines. Ground loops and other problems aside, dedicated lines for some equipment (like amps) should probably be explored. However, this is somewhat inconclusive because the device does not measure real time, so one cannot get a good feel of fluctuations; on the other hand, my relative measurements are overall consistent over time, and this says a lot.

2) The NR power cords do slightly reduce current delivery

3) The Denali v2 does significantly reduce current delivery

Thus, I am again unable to corroborate VLS's own measurements with the same device. RESULTS CONFIRMED

4) The sonic results of HIGHER dynamic range with the Denali v2 and NR power cords - as attested in my system and VLS's - must be the result of much lower noise, and/or Shunyata's QR/BB modules, the effect of WHICH CANNOT be measured by this device. In other words, the investigation continues.

It should be mentioned that Shunyata have claimed to be using ASCC tests for their higher-current-delivery measurements, what they call DTCD. What they do and how remains a secret, but it doesn't jive with what I am measuring.

 

[AndrewChen]

Thanks for posting. These results are much more in line with what I would have expected.

The tool you really need is a Power Analyzer with a Power Clamp meter and an AC cord with stripped covering so that you have access to just the Live wire which can be clamped to measure in real-time the continuous power draw.

 

[ack]

Troubleshooting instructions, mostly for ground leakage



I did not include measurements for Voltage Drop, but they are exactly 5% or less on the wall, and up to 5.5% out of the Denali

 

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Measuring the Furutech GTX-D

The next investigation involved understanding why the two Audio Outlets consistently show lower current draws, even when few things are on it - like the preamp, phono preamp and tuner

The suspicion turned to those in-wall Furutech GTX-Ds. All others around them, which consistently get much higher readings, are high quality Leviton, and one of them gets me over 980A. So I decided to chain a spare GTX-D to one of the live GTX-Ds and measure peak amperage and impedance, using alligator clips and two per side in order to get 12awg on each leg.

It was a surprise, but the famed Furutech appears to be audiophile jewelry, a piece of crap, in the same category as those Ching Cheng cords I tested before, giving me basically half the current of the in-wall GTX-D.

So now we have all Leviton outlets around the audio system giving out 1.5X to 2X the current of the in-wall GTX-D, and then a chained GTX-D dropping half of its parent's as well, with much higher impedance than anything else I have measured (which is typically <0.15Ohms everywhere)







Needless to say, they will be promptly replaced with Hubbell

 

[Kingsrule]

This is significant info ack. Thank you

Ill bet half the guys on the forum use these outlets. I wonder if the Furutech NCF plugs have similar characteristics...

 

[ack]

The eagle-eyed will notice two things: the chained Furutech outlet under test has no ground, and I posted peak amperage of the ASCC2 test which includes Ground impedance as well. That would seem like an error, but both ASCC1 and ASCC2 showed the exact same amperage, and after looking at the formulas again, they do compute to virtually the same thing when Ground Z is infinite; see this again:

 

[dan31]

Measuring the Furutech GTX-D

The next investigation involved understanding why the two Audio Outlets consistently show lower current draws, even when few things are on it - like the preamp, phono preamp and tuner

The suspicion turned to those in-wall Furutech GTX-Ds. All others around them, which consistently get much higher readings, are high quality Leviton, and one of them gets me over 980A. So I decided to chain a spare GTX-D to one of the live GTX-Ds and measure peak amperage and impedance, using alligator clips and two per side in order to get 12awg on each leg.

It was a surprise, but the famed Furutech appears to be audiophile jewelry, a piece of crap, in the same category as those Ching Cheng cords I tested before, giving me basically half the current of the in-wall GTX-D.

So now we have all Leviton outlets around the audio system giving out 1.5X to 2X the current of the in-wall GTX-D, and then a chained GTX-D dropping half of its parent's as well, with much higher impedance than anything else I have measured (which is typically <0.15Ohms everywhere)

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Needless to say, they will be promptly replaced with Hubbell

This doesn’t make me feel good about my GTX outlet. I really don’t want to get behind the rack and change it.
Perhaps you could retest and massage the data to show how great an outlet the GTX is compared to plain stock outlet.

 

[ack]

This doesn’t make me feel good about my GTX outlet. I really don’t want to get behind the rack and change it.
Perhaps you could retest and massage the data to show how great an outlet the GTX is compared to plain stock outlet.

LOL

 

[VLS]

3) The Denali v2 does significantly reduce current delivery

Thus, I am again unable to corroborate VLS's own measurements with the same device.

So more than ever, I would like to know how @VLS was able to achieve his numbers

What they do and how remains a secret, but it doesn't jive with what I am measuring, though it does with what VLS got.

You are inadvertently comparing apples to oranges...

I never claimed the Denali boosts the inherent current capacity of an AC line. Rather, my measurements showed that it decreases the current capacity only modestly compared to a single Shunyata PC. Further, I confirmed that both a single Shunyata PC, as well as the whole Denali/PC chain deliver far more current than a basic cord connected to the same line.

Since I posted my results in your noise measurement thread, I only extracted those conditions where I had made a noise measurement. The complete table is below. You can see that:

1) a straight black cord in a dedicated line provided 487 peak amps.
2) replacing that with a Shunyata Sigma NR cord yielded 755 amps.
3) adding the Denali and an additional Shunyata Sigma XC decreased this a bit to 668 peak amps.

So, sure, if you compare "1" to "3" it may seem like Shunyata is "boosting current", but in actuality what's happening is that a single Shunyata PC is the thing with the least deleterious effect on the line's inherent capacity, and a Denali + XC decrease that a bit.

(I did not measure the line's inherent capacity, since that requires building a high current adapter, as described in C Gabriel's DTCD thread).

 

[ack]

You are right, sorry about that - I misinterpreted your results; edited the original post accordingly. What's missing from your measurements is one at the outlet, to complete the picture. I did get similar results with a random stock power cord I have. In the end, I am not interested in measuring stock cords, and the Shunyata are far superior; so we are confirming their claims that they improve instantaneous current delivery over some stock cords, and apparently by a wide margin. which is why I consider stock cords junk.

 

[VLS]

You are right, sorry about that - I misinterpreted your results; edited the original post accordingly. What's missing from your measurements is one at the outlet, to complete the picture.

As I mentioned, the reason I didn't do that is because to do it correctly you need to build an adapter with quality plugs - the connector supplied with the device is not good enough. See the following post from CG:

DTCD Explained

Some of you have basic misunderstandings about AC power delivery and power rectification specifically. Without some basic knowledge you will never understand the subject. It is necessary to understand the manner in which power supplies in consumer electronics function. The integrated circuits...

www.whatsbestforum.com

You can see the adaptor in this video as well:

I'm too lazy to build one, and am frankly happy with the 668 amps, so don't have a burning need to know how much more the line is capable of.

 

[ack]

Yeah, but as long as we use the same 1-ft cord on this device all the time, the results are comparable... BTW, great video.

 

[ack]

Replacing the Furutech GTX-D with the Leviton 8300-W hospital grade

Sometimes pictures are worth more than a thousand words, or expensive jewelry - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000LEL6I0/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The Leviton appears to have a more firm grip than the Furutech as well, and comparing against the Hubbel hospital grade in the MIT distribution box, them as well. I think this one is here to stay for a while.

Furutech GTX-D/Rhodium - Audio Outlet 2:



Leviton 8300-W Audio Outlet 2:




The amperage is a little lower, at 650A, with the Denali plugged as in the first picture, though this could also be normal variability. Very similar results with the other audio outlet:

Furutech:



Leviton:



Had it not been for Shunyata and their research in all things power, we would not be having this discussion...

 

[dan31]

I wonder if the GTX with all that plating is cause a drop in the available current. It's kind of a head scratcher. I'm sure there is a good answer. Contact's tight on GTX, perhaps they lost tension. I have the MIT Super 20 outlet with the filters. I also have an older furutech F gold. Hum not sure if I should just leave it alone.

I'm still waiting for that data that says the GTX is at the top.