Trying the ZR Acoustics Panels

[spiritofmusic]

Page after page, paragraph after paragraph, sentence after sentence. At the end of reading thru their claims, I needed a stiff drink.

I'm involved in my job in an an industry w huge dubious claims over the years. I've developed a certain allergy to being sold to.

Tbh, I'm as fed up w mentions of Quantum in marketing as the next person, but as long as it's just a snappy strap-line or typeset on a faceplate, I'm ok with it. But to run with quantum physics as a primary idea thru the concept, that's not for me.

Potential customers should read the website and be aware of the claims. Buyer beware should always be the precautionary principle.

The last thing I would say, is that for a product making such bold claims on physics, and touting the multi disciplinary background to the product, where is the data?

 

[spiritofmusic]

It would be nice to see some measurements. Don't get me wrong. There are definitely things we hear that either don't show up in measurements. However, room acoustic treatment differences should be easily measurable.

Rant alert: I also laugh at the use of the word "quantum". Somehow every manufacturer seems to want to add this word in front of their latest gadget as if it gives some mystique to it. Which quantum mechanics principle are these using? The grooves cut into the material are far too large to be in the realm of quantum physics. The diameter of a nitrogen molecule (which makes up most of what our speakers push around) is just over 3.5 Angstoms or 0.00035 microns. Even if the wall treatment had micro perforated holes (meaning holes on the order of a micron or even a few tenths of a micron) then they are still far too large to be concerned with this showing up as "wave diffraction" of the nitrogen particle.

I don't doubt that these work well as a diffuser and they do indeed look very nice.

Does scattering oxygen, nitrogen, argon etc molecules in different directions around the room, count as a quantum effect?

 

[Nuprin]

Yes...before and after measurements would been interesting to see for Cellcbern's change of product. My new room has some serious issues and I'm trying to find the best and easiest (installation) solution without breaking the bank while not overloading the room with acoustic panels, especially really deep ones.

 

[Nuprin]

Page after page, paragraph after paragraph, sentence after sentence. At the end of reading thru their claims, I needed a stiff drink.

I'm involved in my job in an an industry w huge dubious claims over the years. I've developed a certain allergy to being sold to.

Tbh, I'm as fed up w mentions of Quantum in marketing as the next person, but as long as it's just a snappy strap-line or typeset on a faceplate, I'm ok with it. But to run with quantum physics as a primary idea thru the concept, that's not for me.

Potential customers should read the website and be aware of the claims. Buyer beware should always be the precautionary principle.

The last thing I would say, is that for a product making such bold claims on physics, and touting the multi disciplinary background to the product, where is the data?

Neither you or I know if the product works or not or how well it works - until we hear it for ourselves, regardless of the claims. I am here searching for the best solution and everyone claims their products will do the trick or is better for whatever reason so somewhere I've got to try something to see if provides the results I'm looking for. A lot of people use GIK and it seems to work but others and yourself are already looking for an upgrade.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Nuprin, one of my issues is that amongst other ZR claims include it replicating the effects of corner bass traps...thin wall panels able to stand in for, and improve upon, big massy traps that by laws of physics alone dictate the size needed.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Well, I likely need absorption and diffusion, and I can't see any way around some mass needed for the former function. As for corner bass traps, I definitely am ultra skeptical on ZR claims.

This is not so different to me struggling to reconcile those tiny disc/resonator accoutrements like SR pucks and tiny Mooks that one adorns one's room with, claiming they transform the acoustic, rendering all massy panels like bass traps irrelevant. Really?

 

[Nuprin]

Yes, I question the bass trap issue and that is one of the major problems with my room. +15 db peak at 42hz, -25db drop at 120hz. Female vocals are off, have a lot of reverb and certain high frequencies are too bright. I would love to avoid the need for large bass traps and it would be amazing if the ZR panels alone could tame some of those bass issues. Mostly likely I will need an active crossover with my monitors and powered sub.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Nuprin, there is the AVAA C20 electronic bass trap...diminutive, but at a price...

 

[sbnx]

Does scattering oxygen, nitrogen, argon etc molecules in different directions around the room, count as a quantum effect?

No. This would fall under the umbrella of statistical mechanics.

 

[spiritofmusic]

No. This would fall under the umbrella of statistical mechanics.

I was kinda joking Lol.

 

[Nuprin]

Ouch

Nuprin, there is the AVAA C20 electronic bass trap...diminutive, but at a price...

Ouch...was hoping to keep the budget of $5,000 USD or less if possible to get the room to sound decently good. Need to upgrade the streamer, DAC, and eventually the speakers to match the level of the amp.

 

[spiritofmusic]

That's a good budget. I'm just struggling to see how the ZR can even begin to address low bass freqs. I'm all for giving things a go, but I also cannot get past a certain level of claim. However that's me. Others may be more open minded, more "hearing is believing".

 

[sbnx]

Yes, I question the bass trap issue and that is one of the major problems with my room. +15 db peak at 42hz, -25db drop at 120hz. Female vocals are off, have a lot of reverb and certain high frequencies are too bright. I would love to avoid the need for large bass traps and it would be amazing if the ZR panels alone could tame some of those bass issues. Mostly likely I will need an active crossover with my monitors and powered sub.

Nuprin, did you get a chance to look at the link I sent with the "spring traps". I think these would work for your 42Hz issue. However, adding an active crossover like the JL CR-1 and integrating the subs would solve everything up to 70-80Hz. I posted a pic here of the frequency response in a room I worked on that was 13'X11X9'. You can see how flat the frequency response is below 80Hz. The two curves are just different sub settings and a treatment move. The graph is has 1/24 octave smoothing.

Not sure why it pasted two pics.

 

[rbbert]

The prices are here:

https://deltahdesign.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/DHDI-Product-Comparison-Sheet.pdf

Just pulled it up on my laptop.

Page not found, Windows or Mac, Safari or Chrome

 

[Nuprin]

That's a good budget. I'm just struggling to see how the ZR can even begin to address low bass freqs. I'm all for giving things a go, but I also cannot get past a certain level of claim. However that's me. Others may be more open minded, more "hearing is believing".

My suspicion is that both would be needed, at least for my room problems.

@sbnx - Yes, I've been looking at that option for the CR-1 but wanted to tackle some room treatments first for the reverb and higher frequencies problems due to the bare walls and windows that are the front and both side walls.

 

[Nuprin]

The speakers on the 17' wide part of the room. Of course there are windows directly behind where I got the speakers to sound the best so far.

 

[MadFloyd]

The prices are here:

https://deltahdesign.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/DHDI-Product-Comparison-Sheet.pdf

Just pulled it up on my laptop.

You must have the page cached because it doesn't show up for me.

 

[sbnx]

@Nuprin, from that picture it looks like you are getting a first reflection right off of that monitor. If you have someone hold a mirror on the monitor can you see the tweeter(speaker) from the listening position? If so then need to move or angle the monitor a bit.

Windows directly behind is not so bad. The two big reflection points on that wall are: 1. just inside the speaker maybe a foot or two. 2. a double bounce in the corner. here is a diagram that illustrates this. Of course I just randomly picked a few dimensions but hopefully you see the idea.

 

[Nuprin]

@sbnx

Oh yeah, I was moving stuff around the room earlier for the subwoofer and bookshelf but the monitor and equipment rack will sit further back into the room so it's not at the first reflection point normally. There is about 30" of drywall that needs to be acoustically treated between that first window you see to side of the right speaker and another 30" wide window - that's where the equipment can go. I will also probably cover up the monitor with some kind of cloth to help it not be a reflective surface anyways.

 

[Cellcbern]

Has anyone actually checked the numerous claims on their website? I haven't seen such bold statements in a long time.

That's a good budget. I'm just struggling to see how the ZR can even begin to address low bass freqs. I'm all for giving things a go, but I also cannot get past a certain level of claim. However that's me. Others may be more open minded, more "hearing is believing".