First Covid 19 vaccine recipient

[the sound of Tao]

Isn't there some debate as to whether it reduces/eliminates your transmisibility?
Or whether it just stops you alone suffering, and nothing more?

This is I believe exactly what we need to understand... I figure we should be learning from the immunisation roll-out experience and then working out ongoing best practice as we go forward.

So if it is established to enable the world to get this virus under control (even with some manageable/bearable side effects) then I would think we’ll have some more certainty as we go.

I don’t believe this is about altruism either. By the time we factor in the devastating social and extraordinary economic costs of Covid how can we not get that doing everything possible to get this virus under control ASAP is our most important current imperative.

Given the loss of life and devastating impacts on health systems and the absolutely crippling costs to countries, to business and employment I won’t be surprised if the immunisation (if proved effective) may just become a matter of compliance or that people with immunisation certificates get different restriction guidelines in a lockdown.

I’d certainly imagine possible variable tiers of measures and restrictions for health guidelines with different self isolation requirements, potential limitations on workplace participation, even varying general movement and travel during lockdowns might even logically factor in between the various immunised and non-immunised populations.

I don’t believe as we go forwards and get a proper more measured understanding of the efficacy of Covid immunisation that personal choice will necessarily always be an option that won’t come with it also with some sizeable constraints. These may become important factors in whether people get immunised or not. It’s a moving target.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Immunity passports?
Certainly as an "essential health worker", my professional association and public indemnity insurance will oblige me as an osteopath to get vaccinated, whether or not I have personal doubts.

 

[the sound of Tao]

Immunity passports?
Certainly as an "essential health worker", my professional association and public indemnity insurance will oblige me as an osteopath to get vaccinated, whether or not I have personal doubts.

Exactly, insurance and indemnification, access, we have become adept at setting up borders and checkpoints lately... I won’t be surprised if somewhere down the track that I’m also required to have immunisation as a work requirement. It may become a default in the tick box of a work health and safety risk assessment as well.

I’d well imagine an effective immunisation showing on your drivers license and passport might make a difference to everything that you can do most every day for quite some time to come.

 

[Folsom]

You are mistaken.
The vaccine trials have shown that they protect people from the virus and thus reduce the period during which they have the potential to pass the virus on to others.
That is why the vaccines have been developed in the first place, be it for Covid or a whole range of other illnesses.

I'm sorry but a vaccine isn't an airtight bubble, so it isn't "protection" in a way that makes anything I said incorrect. But yes it would reduce the amount of time they spread it as they wouldn't be actively sick/infected as long. But by that logic asymptomatic people probably aren't big spreaders either.

The vaccine only trains your body to respond to the virus earlier. It doesn't attack the virus or anything like that. Asymptomatic people's bodies respond fast to the virus already as well - like children who almost exclusively are symptom-less and not known to spread it.

 

[PeterA]

I know of at least one multinational corporation that apparently is not going to require immunizations for its employees Because if there are issues with side effects, they don’t want the liability. They are going to probably just recommend vaccination and the following of CDC guidelines but ultimately leave it up to the discretion of the employee.

I do you foresee a future where airlines and public schools mandate vaccination for service. I have mixed feelings about that.

 

[howiebrou]

I will pass. My wife and son had COVID-19 (positive tests). Only the wife had mild symptoms. During this time, I cooked with them. I slept with her (about a foot away). We shared drinks, drove in the same car (no masks) and during this time, I showed no symptoms and tested negative twice.

This was about a month ago. We all quarantined together and I am a smoker at the age of 50.

Perhaps when they get the vaccine nailed down and all of the side effects are known on a mass scale worldwide, I might change my mind. Until then? If it's so contagious, why didn't I get it?

Throughout this whole debacle, I have learned that I am more scared of the flu than I am this COVID-19 thing.

Tom

You might have tested too early in the cycle to get a positive result or your sampling may have been faulty. I have had 7 Covid tests and there is a huge range in the competency of the staff conducting the sampling. The worse was the one at Heathrow where the nurse barely entered the nasal cavity, although I guess if you want a negative result that is the place to go!

 

[Al M.]

I know of at least one multinational corporation that apparently is not going to require immunizations for its employees Because if there are issues with side effects, they don’t want the liability. They are going to probably just recommend vaccination and the following of CDC guidelines but ultimately leave it up to the discretion of the employee.

Interesting, I didn't think about liability for side effects. I would think though that most companies would want vaccination for their employees, so that their business can properly function.

I do you foresee a future where airlines and public schools mandate vaccination for service. I have mixed feelings about that.

I don't. I'd say, go ahead.

 

[Testy Troll]

I regard Ascorbic Acid as an essential nutrient that greatly enhances one's immune system. So much more than a vitamin to just prevent Scurvy!
We cannot produce our own Vitamin C within our bodies (most animals can).
When an animal gets sick, their bodies produce a prodigious amount of Vitamin C to combat it. We can only externally supplement our intake.
The problem is that large doses can serve as a laxative with all the unpleasantness that causes. So each person's tolerance must be determined by raising the dosage to bowel tolerance levels. Note that the sicker one gets, the more Vitamin C can be ingested. By taking Calcium Ascorbate intravenously, extremely large doses can be administered with little side effects. And large mega doses are required to do the trick.

There's an extremely interesting and informative book on this subject for those who want to be enlightened. It chronicles the entire history of this extraordinary substance.
Vitamin C: The Real Story by Steve Hickey, PhD and Andrew W. Saul, PhD

 

[the sound of Tao]

Interesting, I didn't think about liability for side effects. I would think though that most companies would want vaccination for their employees, so that their business can properly function.

It’ll be interesting which potential liability might become the issue... for side effects to people being immunised if required or for the possible transmission of the virus to others if it’s deemed an issue of duty of care. I imagine there’ll ultimately be sufficient supporting legislation in most places one way or the other to make that clear.

We won’t get the immunisation under way here till after March this year. While a bit more might be known by the time it’s possible for me my intention is to just get it ASAP. I teach design to adults but some of them are in the higher risk categories just as are both my parents and also one of my brothers. I certainly don’t want to be responsible for passing the virus on to anyone if it is at all within my capacity to ensure that doesn’t happen.

 

[tima]

- deleted by tima -

 

[jeff1225]

i think we are getting way off topic. Unfortunately the big money players do not believe in their products. You might want to check the FDAs threats that go all the way to criminal prosecution. It has all been in the news.
Can we get back to personal experience and willingness to take the vaccine?

We are absolutely on topic. This thread asks the simple question “will you take the COVID-19 vaccine?” WBF members in their 70’s have said no because they don’t get the flu virus and take a lot of vitamins.

They simply couldn’t be more misinformed.

 

[Folsom]

We are absolutely on topic. This thread asks the simple question “will you take the COVID-19 vaccine?” WBF members in their 70’s have said no because they don’t get the flu virus and take a lot of vitamins.

They simply couldn’t be more misinformed.

Even if you took away someone's vitamin C they may still feel they don't want it. You think that if they just *knew* everything they'd change their minds... That's a losing bet. People's value systems and personal feelings don't always align with what may or may not be the most authentic truth of a situation. And the situation may not be the same despite two people viewing at the same time. I'll provide an example.

I use to ride a motorcycle in Montana without a helmet in town. I loved it riding it around with a helmet. But a friend of mine would get really upset with me for not wearing a helmet. He'd say, "you can't argue it's not safer without a helmet." And I'd say, "no, I can't" so he'd say, "then wear a helmet." We'd go in circles because he couldn't understand that I wasn't riding a motorcycle to be safe. Not everyone is living life to fulfill someone else's idea of safety, even if they accept it is safer. They can have any reason they want to feel differently.

To that end, being 70+ doesn't mean covid is a death sentence but it is a much higher risk. But if you are that old then by now you know that literally everything is becoming higher risk to you. How they feel about that and what kind of concession they're wiling to make is a personal choice.

 

[jeff1225]

Even if you took away someone's vitamin C they may still feel they don't want it. You think that if they just *knew* everything they'd change their minds... That's a losing bet. People's value systems and personal feelings don't always align with what may or may not be the most authentic truth of a situation. And the situation may not be the same despite two people viewing at the same time. I'll provide an example.

I use to ride a motorcycle in Montana without a helmet in town. I loved it riding it around with a helmet. But a friend of mine would get really upset with me for not wearing a helmet. He'd say, "you can't argue it's not safer without a helmet." And I'd say, "no, I can't" so he'd say, "then wear a helmet." We'd go in circles because he couldn't understand that I wasn't riding a motorcycle to be safe. Not everyone is living life to fulfill someone else's idea of safety, even if they accept it is safer. They can have any reason they want to feel differently.

To that end, being 70+ doesn't mean covid is a death sentence but it is a much higher risk. But if you are that old then by now you know that literally everything is becoming higher risk to you. How they feel about that and what kind of concession they're wiling to make is a personal choice.

The problem with the helmet analogy is that you not wearing a helmet doesn't kill anyone else. If you want to kill yourself, I think that should be legal in all 50 states. If you don't get a vaccine, you spread the virus that kills or creates life long health problems in other people.

It's not a personal choice, it's a choice for our society.

 

[Bobvin]

If you don't get a vaccine, you spread the virus that kills or creates life long health problems in other people.

It's not a personal choice, it's a choice for our society.

So now you are assuming not being vaccinated automatically means you are a spreader of the virus? There is an assumption built into your reasoning that isn't accurate. Not everyone is going to be exposed to the virus. Not everyone exposed to the virus will get the virus. Not everyone exposed to the virus will become an asymptomatic spreader.

 

[jeff1225]

So now you are assuming not being vaccinated automatically means you are a spreader of the virus? There is an assumption built into your reasoning that isn't accurate. Not everyone is going to be exposed to the virus. Not everyone exposed to the virus will get the virus. Not everyone exposed to the virus will become an asymptomatic spreader.

This is not an assumption, this is a fact. If you get vaccinated, you will not share the virus. If you don't get the vaccine you will spread the virus.

Facts.

 

[jeff1225]

So now you are assuming not being vaccinated automatically means you are a spreader of the virus? There is an assumption built into your reasoning that isn't accurate. Not everyone is going to be exposed to the virus. Not everyone exposed to the virus will get the virus. Not everyone exposed to the virus will become an asymptomatic spreader.

Bob......are you going to call the new more transmissible UK variant of the virus the "UKflu?"

 

[spiritofmusic]

This is definitely true? Not that you just won't get it (good though that is), but you also won't spread it? Sorry for my lack of sureness here.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Bob......are you going to call the new more transmissible UK variant of the virus the "UKflu?"

Well, I believe it's now considered to have started in Spain. And we have the hyper virulent S. African strain to worry about as well.
The reason it was assumed it started in the UK was that our labs detected it first. The UK has few areas where we are preeminent, our labs' expertise being one of them. Hence our early detection.

 

[jeff1225]

Well, I believe it's now considered to have started in Spain. And we have the hyper virulent S. African strain to worry about as well.
The reason it was assumed it started in the UK was that our labs detected it first. The UK has few areas where we are preeminent, our labs' expertise being one of them. Hence our early detection.

The Spanish flu originated in the USA but was first reported in Spain. So you're stuck with the UK-flu.

 

[Folsom]

This is not an assumption, this is a fact. If you get vaccinated, you will not share the virus. If you don't get the vaccine you will spread the virus.

Facts.

And if you've already had it then you don't need it because you won't spread it, if vaccination is a complete fail-safe.

But while I understand your point about societal responsibility I would say that it's realistic or appropriate. You could say the same thing about the flu shot. In this case I think it's your responsibility to get the vaccine if you're going to sweat bullets over those that don't. In other words no one has to get a vaccine because you don't want to get one for yourself. I simply don't believe in criminalizing people for being alive, which is basically what it sounds like you want for people that don't get the vaccine (and haven't had covid?). What I can say is if you're sick, I'd recommend staying home till you feel better so it's good for you and everyone else - hmm sounds nostalgic. And most people do, and they have to be told. It's not like laws/edicts/social standards actually stop everyone from doing everything....