First Covid 19 vaccine recipient

[Bobvin]

There are billions in sales and 100’s of millions in profits every year attributed to vitamin companies. They chose (very wisely) to not have their products tested by the FDA.

The FDA is not the last word in medical knowledge. Science has a place, but our knowledge of the complexities of the human body remain embryonic. I will give you “alternative” medicine is rife with antidotal nonsense, but there are many modalities that don’t fit into the classical “western” medical paradigm. This does not make them valid, just outside the “prevailing view.” Being outside the prevailing view also does not make them in-valid. The things we consider true and valid today may, in a hundred years, be laughed at. Such is the nature of scientific change.

As someone with a reasonable amount of training wrt the scientific method, I always ask “what else might explain that?” It keeps me open-minded and skeptical. I am also highly skeptical of “facts“ that are result of consensus vs. experimentation.

 

[jeff1225]

The FDA is not the last word in medical knowledge. Science has a place, but our knowledge of the complexities of the human body remain embryonic. I will give you “alternative” medicine is rife with antidotal nonsense, but there are many modalities that don’t fit into the classical “western” medical paradigm. This does not make them valid, just outside the “prevailing view.” Being outside the prevailing view also does not make them in-valid. The things we consider true and valid today may, in a hundred years, be laughed at. Such is the nature of scientific change.

As someone with a reasonable amount of training wrt the scientific method, I always ask “what else might explain that?” It keeps me open-minded and skeptical. I am also highly skeptical of “facts“ that are result of consensus.

Forget the FDA, point me to the long term peer reviewed studies on the efficacy of vitamins funded by the billion dollar vitamin industry. You can’t, since their are none.

 

[Bobvin]

Forget the FDA, point me to the long term peer reviewed studies on the efficacy of vitamins funded by the billion dollar vitamin industry. You can’t, since their are none.

John Bastyr university (Seattle) conducts many such studies. (I will give you the cohort size sometimes is on the small side.)

 

[jeff1225]

John Bastyr university (Seattle) conducts many such studies. (I will give you the cohort size sometimes is on the small side.)

You made my argument. When the multi-billion dollar supplement business starts funding studies, I’ll be all ears.

Obviously this will never happen so I’ll stick with real science.

 

[Bobvin]

You made my argument. When the multi-billion dollar supplement business starts funding studies, I’ll be all ears.

Obviously this will never happen so I’ll stick with real science.

I prefer when studies are done by objective 3rd parties. But thats just me.

 

[Gregadd]

There are billions in sales and 100’s of millions in profits every year attributed to vitamin companies. They chose (very wisely) to not have their products tested by the FDA.

i think we are getting way off topic. Unfortunately the big money players do not believe in their products. You might want to check the FDAs threats that go all the way to criminal prosecution. It has all been in the news.
Can we get back to personal experience and willingness to take the vaccine?

 

[Folsom]

I would never debate Folsom on medicine. He googles and reads WhatsApp forwards

What is a WhatsApp forwards? I have WhatsApp but literally only talk to one DIY audio friend in Spain on it a few times a year.

There are billions in sales and 100’s of millions in profits every year attributed to vitamin companies. They chose (very wisely) to not have their products tested by the FDA.

I'm not sure why exactly it would be the FDA doing the testing but as far as choosing to not be checked... Oh boy are you right. Whenever someone does investigate a typical vitamin you'd find at most stores like Centrum they find it's useless and the ingredients aren't confirmable with the label. There are explanations for this sometimes. One that I'm familiar with is the process of making the vitamins is often done too fast. The speed cooks the ingredients to the point they are useless. That problem exists even in the health food industry to the point that their quantities may be less effective than another brand who takes more care.

But as far as studies for benefits that's overly complicated. The variables are too great for many large studies. However some data is known due to the way testing is done for common things, namely vitamin D is tested everywhere so the data picture is pretty big. But there isn't a shortage of studies on many subjects. However individualism makes it so it's kind of trial and error for individuals... For example methylfolate is useful to some people who have MTHFR mutations, but in others causes severe depression; but the "info" in the health world doesn't cover that and doesn't understand methylation genomics at all so they are unwisely pointing fingers and myriads of stress, depression, confusion, etc.

 

[Gregadd]

Forget the FDA, point me to the long term peer reviewed studies on the efficacy of vitamins funded by the billion dollar vitamin industry. You can’t, since their are none.

Dr. Gary Null does studies. I know because he bores me to death with them on his radio show.

 

[jeff1225]

I prefer when studies are done by objective 3rd parties. But thats just me.

The key word here is “funded” Bob. The way this works is these companies give large grants to universities and they run the studies.

 

[Bobvin]

As to taking the vaccine... I’m uncertain. I’m 63, generally excellent health. I’ve been taking lots of B, C, and D vitamins for decades, as well as other supplements like zinc during cold weather months. The data saying the efficacy is 90+% is one argument that has me considering the vaccine. I have never taken a flu shot. just a couple months before the wuflu hit I got really ill even went to ER. After a barrage of tests the doc said “seems like you got some virus”, you’ll probably feel like shit for another week. He was right. If there are no ill effects taking the vaccine and prevents 10 days of being miserable (granted can be much worse, or not) is another argument for the vaccine.

 

[Folsom]

As to taking the vaccine... I’m uncertain. I’m 63, generally excellent health. I’ve been taking lots of B, C, and D vitamins for decades, as well as other supplements like zinc during cold weather months. The data saying the efficacy is 90+% is one argument that has me considering the vaccine. I have never taken a flu shot. just a couple months before the wuflu hit I got really ill even went to ER. After a barrage of tests the doc said “seems like you got some virus”, you’ll probably feel like shit for another week. He was right. If there are no ill effects taking the vaccine and prevents 10 days of being miserable (granted can be much worse, or not) is another argument for the vaccine.

How much earlier? It's been here a year now. France said November for them.

And that is the intention of the vaccine. It isn't 90+% of not getting the virus, it's 90+% of not having severe symptoms/hospitalization.

 

[DeadWax]

There has never been a study conducted that proves taking vitamin supplements equates to longer life. I prefer to get my vitamins through food. With this said, I will absolutely be in line quickly to get the Covid vaccine as soon as my number is called. I'm more concerned with protecting others (elevated risk populations) from my potentially asymptomatic infection that goes unnoticed....which is the case for upwards of 40% of the infections.

 

[Bobvin]

How much earlier? It's been here a year now. France said November for them.

And that is the intention of the vaccine. It isn't 90+% of not getting the virus, it's 90+% of not having severe symptoms/hospitalization.

My illness was just before Thanksgiving of 2019, and I’ve often conjectured I had wuflu early on. Whatever I had put me down for the count for a week at least, I think it was as sick as I’d ever been.

 

[Bobvin]

I'm more concerned with protecting others (elevated risk populations) from my potentially asymptomatic infection that goes unnoticed....which is the case for upwards of 40% of the infections.

And my hat goes off to you and others who feel the same way. I’m a selfish rat-bastard who seldom thinks so altruistically. Something I work and pray on.

 

[treitz3]

I will pass. My wife and son had COVID-19 (positive tests). Only the wife had mild symptoms. During this time, I cooked with them. I slept with her (about a foot away). We shared drinks, drove in the same car (no masks) and during this time, I showed no symptoms and tested negative twice.

This was about a month ago. We all quarantined together and I am a smoker at the age of 50.

Perhaps when they get the vaccine nailed down and all of the side effects are known on a mass scale worldwide, I might change my mind. Until then? If it's so contagious, why didn't I get it?

Throughout this whole debacle, I have learned that I am more scared of the flu than I am this COVID-19 thing.

Tom

 

[the sound of Tao]

There has never been a study conducted that proves taking vitamin supplements equates to longer life. I prefer to get my vitamins through food. With this said, I will absolutely be in line quickly to get the Covid vaccine as soon as my number is called. I'm more concerned with protecting others (elevated risk populations) from my potentially asymptomatic infection that goes unnoticed....which is the case for upwards of 40% of the infections.

We should be factoring in best outcome for the species... rarely have we been in the position all as individuals to act on behalf of the collective. I just figure these aren’t small decisions nor are there just individual consequences. Everyone should make the call in the light (I believe) of best evidence. Personal opinion should not always carry equal weighting. I’m with you, this is about us trying to determine (as hard as that may be) the best outcome for all.

 

[Barry2013]

How much earlier? It's been here a year now. France said November for them.

And that is the intention of the vaccine. It isn't 90+% of not getting the virus, it's 90+% of not having severe symptoms/hospitalization.

With due respect to your personal views "It isn't 90+% of not getting the virus, it's 90%+ of not having severe symptoms/hospitalisation" it is just as much about not transmitting the virus to others including those at much greater risk of dying.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Isn't there some debate as to whether it reduces/eliminates your transmisibility?
Or whether it just stops you alone suffering, and nothing more?

 

[Folsom]

With due respect to your personal views "It isn't 90+% of not getting the virus, it's 90%+ of not having severe symptoms/hospitalisation" it is just as much about not transmitting the virus to others including those at much greater risk of dying.

I'm not giving a personal view with what I was saying about the 90+% figure.

We have no data on being vaccinated and transmission. You still get the virus, but if you can be an asymptomatic spreader with the organic version, why couldn't you with the vaccine? The whole point of the vaccine is to make you as asymptomatic as possible. If you're at risk this is exactly why it's your personal choice to evaluate whether you want the vaccine or not.

 

[Barry2013]

I'm not giving a personal view with what I was saying about the 90+% figure.

We have no data on being vaccinated and transmission. You still get the virus, but if you can be an asymptomatic spreader with the organic version, why couldn't you with the vaccine? The whole point of the vaccine is to make you as asymptomatic as possible. If you're at risk this is exactly why it's your personal choice to evaluate whether you want the vaccine or not.

You are mistaken.
The vaccine trials have shown that they protect people from the virus and thus reduce the period during which they have the potential to pass the virus on to others.
That is why the vaccines have been developed in the first place, be it for Covid or a whole range of other illnesses.