The Ugly American

[ack]

I say nonsense. People mean to tell me that, for example, smashing a racket for losing a point - and being called on it - had something to do with race? That's what he is lampooning, her atrocious, childish behavior.

 

[dminches]

I really don't know, is that what they are suppose to do? I can understand having some tact, but also at what point are they playing baby-sitter?

I don’t know how much sports you watch so I don’t know what your perspective is but in all sports the good umpires/referees are known for letting things pass or issuing strong warnings before they have to take action. There is no harm in issuing a stern warning, after which the player takes his/her fate into their own hands. I don’t believe Ramos did that but I can’t say for sure since I don’t have the complete audio of their conversations. And Serena could have decided enough is enough too. She is not blameless.

 

[dminches]

I say nonsense. People mean to tell me that, for example, smashing a racket for losing a point - and being called on it - had something to do with race? That's what he is lampooning, her atrocious, childish behavior.

I don’t really know if it is or not but let’s say the player was Jewish and artist drew a picture of him with a humongous nose, exaggerating that part of his look. Would that be considered anti-Semitic? I think the drawing is what people are reacting to, not that she is depicted as a cry baby.

 

[ack]

I don’t really know if it is or not but let’s say the player was Jewish and artist drew a picture of him with a humongous nose, exaggerating that part of his look. Would that be considered anti-Semitic? I think the drawing is what people are reacting to, not that she is depicted as a cry baby.

So caricatures are bad, racist, etc. Seriously? What about politicians drawn as caricatures? What if they are made to resemble animals. The referee is also "distorted" - is the cartoon attacking the referee? Is this cartoon also sexist, because she's portrayed the way she is portrayed? What about the hairdo. Is any cartoon about all the sensitivities we have???? Are we supposed to paint Mona Lisas instead with every *cartoon*? Or have we lost any sense of humor, however stinging it may be.

 

[dminches]

So caricatures are bad, racist, etc. Seriously? What about politicians drawn as caricatures? What if they are made to resemble animals. The referee is also "distorted" - is the cartoon attacking the referee? Is this cartoon also sexist, because she's portrayed the way she is portrayed? What about the hairdo. Is any cartoon about all the sensitivities we have???? Are we supposed to paint Mona Lisas instead with every *cartoon*? Or have we lost any sense of humor, however stinging it may be.

I think some can be racist or bigoted, sure.

 

[NorthStar]

Me opinion:

1. Al's link from yesterday (post #33 - Vox) ... the best.
• https://www.vox.com/2018/9/10/17837598/serena-williams-us-open-umpire-carlos-ramos
2. Australian caricature (humor only and only for the humor of the art of caricature ... check dictionary), from Australia, Australian newspaper (popular one), forget Twitter: The scene with Carlos the umpire asking Naomi to give Serena a break...funny (ack's post #44).

Many people in the USA don't agree, that's fine. I respect their perception, very.
Twitter for me has one positive, and many negatives. It's like in real life trying to find that positive one among all the negatives. ...Like the big bang theory, Large Hadron Collider.

Carlos Ramos didn't steal a point from Serena Williams, Serena Williams stole a sweet victory from Naomi Osaka. That's the real drama.

 

[jeff1225]

I didn't forget that at all. As I said before, all the players receive coaching during the matches. Everyone admits to it.

Regarding her change in tactics, it isn't even clear if she saw her coach's gestures. They showed a split screen replay and she wasn't even looking at him. Even so, during her match with Sevastova she came to the net quite often. That strategy was a bit less favorable against Osaka because Osaka has much harder ground strokes. When any player is losing they tend to change their approach so it isn't that surprising that Serena would have done that too. However, she did not come to the net that often.

I think everyone agrees that her behavior was less than stellar and not appropriate for an all-time great. No argument there. However, people should recognize that the umpire did a poor job too. He did nothing to de-escalate things which is what a good umpire does. In the article you posted it says that he warned Venus about her coach giving hand signals. Why didn't he warn Serena before penalizing her? And why didn't he warn her before giving her a game penalty?

Please name a sport where it's the umpire's job to "de-escalate" a situation. I've never seen it happen in baseball, basket ball or Foot Ball. Ridiculous.

 

[dminches]

Please name a sport where it's the umpire's job to "de-escalate" a situation. I've never seen it happen in baseball, basket ball or Foot Ball. Ridiculous.

It happens all the time in baseball. They let players do stuff and the good umpires turn their backs.

Read the Vox article. It gives specific examples of Ramos letting male players blow off steam.

 

[jeff1225]

I don’t really know if it is or not but let’s say the player was Jewish and artist drew a picture of him with a humongous nose, exaggerating that part of his look. Would that be considered anti-Semitic? I think the drawing is what people are reacting to, not that she is depicted as a cry baby.

Agreed 100%. Drawing Serena with big lips and drawing Osaka like she's Sharapova is terrible. The situation on court wasn't about race, but this distasteful cartoon makes it about race.

 

[dminches]

A better baseball example is when a player or manager is arguing with an umpire and a different umpire will step in between to de-escalate the situation.

 

[NorthStar]

Maybe Carlos Ramos should be banned from the US Tennis Association and be replaced by a new US umpire?

Maybe the cartoonist from Australia should be banned by the newspaper he works for and be replaced by a new US cartoonist?

Maybe the US Open 2018 should be cancelled and be replayed again, with that new US umpire?

Maybe history can be undone and be rewritten again?

 

[Mike Lavigne]

A better baseball example is when a player or manager is arguing with an umpire and a different umpire will step in between to de-escalate the situation.

they are never 'mic'd' up though. and the networks have the good sense not to try and capture it. maybe a few 'close' fans hear it, but it never gets to Sports Center. so it gets forgotten quickly.

no place to hide with Tennis, so a player challenging umpire authority knows that they have crossed a line.....and the ante is raised. hey, I understand Tennis is marketing their product the best they can. but this is fallout from that.

 

[Folsom]

How should he have drawn Serena? I think people are seeing what they want to see.

 

[KeithR]

Carlos Ramos is a stickler for the rules. Here's a great recap of sighting top 10 players:

http://larrybrownsports.com/tennis/...istory-code-violations-serena-williams/463180

Let's be clear, after the warnings these players stop complaining and played out the game. Serena did not.

It's like in baseball, you scout your umpire before the game begins. Serena should have known this going in and been prepared.

That said, I felt like Ramos was wrong in his initial warning. He should have done a non-warning, warning imo. But after that Serena was all at fault and her rage about women and moms was over the top. And she was a complete disgrace (as was the USTA president) in the ceremony when it was all about rooting for her, but congratulate Naomi (lol). To make a grand slam winner push her visor down while in tears and apologize for winning - Japanese humility at its finest.

Naomi Osaka is a star and ultimately will be the real winner.

 

[Folsom]

I don’t know how much sports you watch so I don’t know what your perspective is but in all sports the good umpires/referees are known for letting things pass or issuing strong warnings before they have to take action. There is no harm in issuing a stern warning, after which the player takes his/her fate into their own hands. I don’t believe Ramos did that but I can’t say for sure since I don’t have the complete audio of their conversations. And Serena could have decided enough is enough too. She is not blameless.

I think stern warnings are appropriate. Surely it could have started a slight bit more softly; but the minute a player started telling me what to do "you need to apologize to me" my reply would be "one more comment telling me what to do any you're gone".

People can see in their periphery, so I'm not so sure she didn't see the coach. Maybe I need to review it. Still, it's irrelevant to me once she turned it political.

 

[Al M.]

Please name a sport where it's the umpire's job to "de-escalate" a situation. I've never seen it happen in baseball, basket ball or Foot Ball. Ridiculous.

It happens all the time in baseball. They let players do stuff and the good umpires turn their backs.

Read the Vox article. It gives specific examples of Ramos letting male players blow off steam.

It also happens all the time in soccer.

 

[KeithR]

All of the Serena defenders seem to forget the convenient fact that SHE WAS LOSING. Also, she changed her tactics and started to move forward and attack the net after she supposedly didn't see her coach's hand movements to do so.

And was just broken on a horrible service game when she tossed her racket. Her 4th time I believe?

One question for you - if Serena never looks at her coach as claimed and has never received signals, why would he send signals (which he admitted)?

 

[PeterA]

I think stern warnings are appropriate. Surely it could have started a slight bit more softly; but the minute a player started telling me what to do "you need to apologize to me" my reply would be "one more comment telling me what to do any you're gone".

People can see in their periphery, so I'm not so sure she didn't see the coach. Maybe I need to review it. Still, it's irrelevant to me once she turned it political.

Don't forget that she threatened him by telling him that "he would never be at one of her matches again in his lifetime." I had not idea she had that amount of power to control who umpires her matches. Incredible. That just tells you that she thinks she has more power than the umpire does. Demanding that he apologize to her. Crazy stuff.

 

[dminches]

Don't forget that she threatened him by telling him that "he would never be at one of her matches again in his lifetime." I had not idea she had that amount of power to control who umpires her matches. Incredible. That just tells you that she thinks she has more power than the umpire does. Demanding that he apologize to her. Crazy stuff.

Not only has Rafael Nadal said that to an umpire during a match he then requested to the tennis authorities that that particular umpire not officiate his matches. This stuff is not as rare as you think. Search Nadal and Bernardes.

 

[jeff1225]

And was just broken on a horrible service game when she tossed her racket. Her 4th time I believe?

One question for you - if Serena never looks at her coach as claimed and has never received signals, why would he send signals (which he admitted)?

Yes....AND he made the signals with his thumbs up. She said "he just gave me a thumbs up." She was losing, of course she looked at her coach, she was desperate.