The Ugly American

[XV-1]

Ironically, the worst behaved current tennis player is Australian, Nick Kyrgios.

Ironically, Kyrgios is smart enough to NEVER get 3 official warnings and lose a game.

He certainly never moans and complains about his warnings afterwards, or threatens lines people, or brings out the race card, or the sexism card. He can certainly never be warned for coaching, as he does not have one.

BTW - Serena is way worse behaved than Kyrgios and has been over a long period of time.

 

[bonzo75]

Here is an interesting analysis:

https://www.vox.com/2018/9/10/17837598/serena-williams-us-open-umpire-carlos-ramos

I didn't see the match but this was a superb article

 

[DaveyF]

Ironically, Kyrgios is smart enough to NEVER get 3 official warnings and lose a game.

He certainly never moans and complains about his warnings afterwards, or threatens lines people, or brings out the race card, or the sexism card. He can certainly never be warned for coaching, as he does not have one.

BTW - Serena is way worse behaved than Kyrgios and has been over a long period of time.

Unfortunately for Kyrgios, he doesn’t the fire in his belly like Serena, otherwise he would be a force to reckon with on the tour. IMO.

 

[DaveyF]

From Down Under

Why don't we all start attacking the referees in every sport we play; that'll teach them, huh? And then attack the opponents for all the fouls and get even, because they are unfair; that'll settle it...

Tasos, that’s a pretty racist cartoon imho. Not something that I think should be used as an example.

 

[XV-1]

Unfortunately for Kyrgios, he doesn’t the fire in his belly like Serena, otherwise he would be a force to reckon with on the tour. IMO.

very true. He is an enigma in Australia where almost everyone older than 25 does not like him. There is so much $$ in tennis when you are in the top 30, its hard for some of these young players to be fully dedicated when they don't even like tennis - so they are almost just playing to earn a living.

Hopefully one day he will get the fire in the belly - but I doubt it. He loves basketball thou - go figure.

 

[Folsom]

Agreed, if you follow tennis a lot, this is fairly common. However, I don’t think that makes it necessarily right, but I do think this ref made too big a deal of it...and as a consequence of his actions he managed to alter the possible course of this match. Although, I think Serena would probably have lost regardless.
I really think that Serena has a valid point, why did this guy react the way he did to her, when there were other options available to him....and that he had taken when refereeing other men’s matches.
Could Serena have reacted differently to the situation, of course, but the fiery competitor in her took over...and although we might not like what that looks like, that’s almost certainly what pulls her through when the competition gets tough.

She behaved like a child throwing a tantrum and started throwing around political bias to get her way like an entitled brat. I have no respect for her. There's no reason that bad ref calls cannot coincide with also bad behavior. Making excuses for everything leads to ****, utter ****. People need to mature, not be awarded for irresponsible tantrums because it's on the right side of someone's politics. I cannot think of much else that is worse than allowance for poor behavior because of "right" on some other point. It's pathetic behavior.

 

[dminches]

Ironically, Kyrgios is smart enough to NEVER get 3 official warnings and lose a game.

He certainly never moans and complains about his warnings afterwards, or threatens lines people, or brings out the race card, or the sexism card. He can certainly never be warned for coaching, as he does not have one.

BTW - Serena is way worse behaved than Kyrgios and has been over a long period of time.

He loses games on his own when he stops playing so let's not act as though his behavior is one people should emulate.

His play was so pathetic in the US Open that the umpire felt the need to coach him. Maybe he should consider getting one.

 

[GSOphile]

I see the name of this thread and something is nagging me although I am not American. Does the word “Ugly ...” use with other nationals? Or is it a stereotype aiming just for American?

Kind regards,
Tang

Tang,
You and others probably already know this, but for the record (from Wikipedia):
"The Ugly American is a 1958 political novel by Eugene Burdick and William Lederer which depicts the failures of the U.S. diplomatic corps in Southeast Asia." It was later made into a movie starring Marlon Brando.

 

[XV-1]

He loses games on his own when he stops playing so let's not act as though his behavior is one people should emulate.

His play was so pathetic in the US Open that the umpire felt the need to coach him. Maybe he should consider getting one.

Who said his behaviour is something to emulate?

That does not put him in the intimidating, aggressive, cheating class as Serena thou, so don't imply he is. Your ugly American and her long term obscene behaviour is all yours.

 

[dminches]

Who said his behaviour is something to emulate?

That does not put him in the intimidating, aggressive, cheating class as Serena thou, so don't imply he is. Your ugly American and her long term obscene behaviour is all yours.

Cheating? How exactly has she been cheating?

Your ugly American and her long term obscene behaviour is all yours.

A bit over the top, don't you think?

 

[XV-1]

Cheating? How exactly has she been cheating?


A bit over the top, don't you think?

Have you seen her play live? I have several times. She does not grunt normally when playing tennis. She does however grunt when she starts to lose or gets into a tight part of the set. She does it to purposely to try and put the other player off. All class - not.

OTP - No not really. Look at her form over a long time. Just because she is a great tennis player does not make her a great person.

 

[dminches]

Have you seen her play live? I have several times. She does not grunt normally when playing tennis. She does however grunt when she starts to lose or gets into a tight part of the set. She does it to purposely to try and put the other player off. All class - not.

OTP - No not really. Look at her form over a long time. Just because she is a great tennis player does not make her a great person.

I have seen her live and on TV over her entire career.

Your claims about her grunting are mere speculation and biased due to your dislike of her.

Who said she was a great person? I questioned calling her "obscene."

Again how did she cheat?

 

[jeff1225]

What warning?

The list you posted includes him telling Venus to tell her coach to stop coaching. Why wasn’t Serena told that? Seems like an inconsistent application of the rule.

All of the Serena defenders seem to forget the convenient fact that SHE WAS LOSING. Also, she changed her tactics and started to move forward and attack the net after she supposedly didn't see her coach's hand movements to do so.

As a competitive tennis player and former college player, I find it even more insulting that she pulled the woman, mom and race card both during and after the match.

 

[Al M.]

I didn't see the match but this was a superb article

I agree, that's why I posted the link. Very fair and thorough analysis.

 

[dminches]

All of the Serena defenders seem to forget the convenient fact that SHE WAS LOSING. Also, she changed her tactics and started to move forward and attack the net after she supposedly didn't see her coach's hand movements to do so.

As a competitive tennis player and former college player, I find it even more insulting that she pulled the woman, mom and race card both during and after the match.

I didn't forget that at all. As I said before, all the players receive coaching during the matches. Everyone admits to it.

Regarding her change in tactics, it isn't even clear if she saw her coach's gestures. They showed a split screen replay and she wasn't even looking at him. Even so, during her match with Sevastova she came to the net quite often. That strategy was a bit less favorable against Osaka because Osaka has much harder ground strokes. When any player is losing they tend to change their approach so it isn't that surprising that Serena would have done that too. However, she did not come to the net that often.

I think everyone agrees that her behavior was less than stellar and not appropriate for an all-time great. No argument there. However, people should recognize that the umpire did a poor job too. He did nothing to de-escalate things which is what a good umpire does. In the article you posted it says that he warned Venus about her coach giving hand signals. Why didn't he warn Serena before penalizing her? And why didn't he warn her before giving her a game penalty?

 

[ack]

Tasos, that’s a pretty racist cartoon imho. Not something that I think should be used as an example.

I don't see "race" in any of it. I certainly see attitude, cry-baby and mockery towards it.

 

[DaveyF]

I don't see "race" in any of it. I certainly see attitude, cry-baby and mockery towards it.

Well, neither did the cartoonist...but there are plenty of others who did: https://www.yahoo.com/sports/cartoo...n-serena-williams-nothing-race-144344924.html

 

[Folsom]

I think everyone agrees that her behavior was less than stellar and not appropriate for an all-time great. No argument there. However, people should recognize that the umpire did a poor job too. He did nothing to de-escalate things which is what a good umpire does. In the article you posted it says that he warned Venus about her coach giving hand signals. Why didn't he warn Serena before penalizing her? And why didn't he warn her before giving her a game penalty?

I really don't know, is that what they are suppose to do? I can understand having some tact, but also at what point are they playing baby-sitter?

 

[ack]

Well, neither did the cartoonist...but there are plenty of others who did: https://www.yahoo.com/sports/cartoo...n-serena-williams-nothing-race-144344924.html

Sure they have... but what does that tell me. Where is the race in any of it. Because she's black????? Not allowed to lampoon black people for their behavior? Behavior is the issue here, not race. Williams herself brought up all kinds of excuses - gender, motherhood, etc - but not race.

 

[DaveyF]

Sure they have... but what does that tell me. Where is the race in any of it. Because she's black????? Not allowed to lampoon black people for their behavior? Behavior is the issue here, not race. Williams herself brought up all kinds of excuses - gender, motherhood, etc - but not race.

Tasos, there were a lot of reasons given why so many people found that cartoon racist...I don't think all those people are wrong.