Shunyata Triton/ Typhon

[edorr]

If there is one thing I know after years of listening to Shunyata's Zitron signal cables it is this: their character changes significantly throughout the extensive burn in process. 150 hours isn't anywhere near the time that is required. Anything under 500 hours yields the very results you describe....transparency at the expense of musicality. I am not alone in this assessment. I will concede that the differences are more noticeable in highly resolving systems. Caelin Gabriel himself recommends weeks, not mere days before peak performance is reached. If one truly wants to determine how Anaconda Zitron speaker cables and interconnects stack up against the best of the best, then they need to be properly broken in. The Python and Anaconda Zitron SC's are every bit as good as Shunyata's PC's but require longer break-in time. I base this conclusion after extensive listening to all of them in my system. I would have sold them long ago if they sacrificed musicality at the alter of speed and transparency.

May be. But to me this is all part of the "value proposition" of the cables. I'm playing music 15 hours a week. If I write a $10K check for 2 x IC and 1 x SC I don't want to have to wait more than half a year (or even a few weeks in the cooker), to uncover its full potential, especially, since I already own a fine pair of cables. To me the ultimate value is musical enjoyment. I do not want to compromise this for an extended period of time.

I honest to God don't understand why Shunyata (and others) don't burn in these cables themselves before selling. The cost is the financing cost of a few weeks of WIP inventory on the balance sheet. Even if it takes them a month, this would amount to (COGS x 1/12 x Interest rate on working capital). If COGS is say 40% of revenue and financing cost is 10%, cost would amount to 0.3% of revenue (I could be wrong - check with your accountant). They would easily make up for this through increase in sales.

So question for Shunyata; who aren't you burning your own cables? No one would dream of buying a BMW if it took half a year of driving to unleash its full performance. Why is high end audio any different?

 

[rockitman]

I honest to God don't understand why Shunyata (and others) don't burn in these cables themselves before selling.

Nordost does, at least their interconnect and digital cables...The Vidar machine. It does not burn in power cords as current is needed for pc's versus large bandwith frequency sweeps for the interconnect that the Vidar machine does.

 

[jap]

Cable Burn-IN

ICs & SCs:
http://www.haglabs.com/frykleaner.html

PCs:
http://www.haglabs.com/frycorder.html
For 20 amp PCs you'll need a 20 amp to 15 amp IEC Adapter:
http://www.voodoocable.net/VAPA.htm

 

[GuidoCorona]

Edorr, I probably listen to music as much or as little as you do... To maximize break-in process of the signal path, I feed FM interstation hash into the system 24/7.... Tthat is 168 hours per week... 720 hours per month minus downtime for thunderstorms etc.... I track progress with my observation in a highly automated spreadsheet.... For Most cables, in approximately one month, the signal path has stabilized. I then swap the IC that I had from CD player with the one fed from the tuner.... And my primary path is ready to go.

Over the years, I found that any claim from other manufacturers that their product does not require any break-in, for whatever obscure reason of immunuty, cooking, or quantum-Chromo-dynamic megalozapping , ranges from the wildly optimistic to the Newagely absurd... Invariably, I had to break-in each wire, for anything ranging from 500 hours to 1500 before I could form a stable assesment.

G.

 

[rockitman]

Over the years, I found that any claim from other manufacturers that their product does not require any break-in, for whatever obscure reason of immunuty, cooking, or quantum-Chromo-dynamic megalozapping , ranges from the wildly optimistic to the Newagely absurd... Invariably, I had to break-in each wire, for anything ranging from 500 hours to 1500 before I could form a stable assesment.

G.

I agree. Even though my Nordost Odin went through their cooking process and it helps, I know I have a ways to go for complete burnin.

 

[microstrip]

May be. But to me this is all part of the "value proposition" of the cables. I'm playing music 15 hours a week. If I write a $10K check for 2 x IC and 1 x SC I don't want to have to wait more than half a year (or even a few weeks in the cooker), to uncover its full potential, especially, since I already own a fine pair of cables. To me the ultimate value is musical enjoyment. I do not want to compromise this for an extended period of time.

I honest to God don't understand why Shunyata (and others) don't burn in these cables themselves before selling. The cost is the financing cost of a few weeks of WIP inventory on the balance sheet. Even if it takes them a month, this would amount to (COGS x 1/12 x Interest rate on working capital). If COGS is say 40% of revenue and financing cost is 10%, cost would amount to 0.3% of revenue (I could be wrong - check with your accountant). They would easily make up for this through increase in sales.

So question for Shunyata; who aren't you burning your own cables? No one would dream of buying a BMW if it took half a year of driving to unleash its full performance. Why is high end audio any different?

I am not an expert in finance and manufacturing, but the cooking month would cost much more than that. The Shunyata catalogue includes many items, and as the power supply market is very small the products are surely manufactured according to distributor orders and market trends. If the manufacturer had to add a month to the usual delivery time it would be a trade nonsense.

Also, I have read that burn-in effects can be reset if products are stored or shipped under adverse climatic conditions, such as extreme temperature variations. This could led to very different sounding cables when they reach the shops - it seems better to know they all are in the same conditions and need burn-in!

BTW, I use a DIY cable cooker and several tricks to speed burn-in - I am not a patient audiophile!

 

[Vhiner]

I agree. Even though my Nordost Odin went through their cooking process and it helps, I know I have a ways to go for complete burnin.

I also agree with Christian and Guido. Consider this: Conrad Johnson Teflon caps require 1500 burn in to do their best. Shunyata's flagship wire is every bit as amazing as those caps that I and many others consider to be well worth the break in time invested. The $25k GAT does not trounce other preamps...until about 1500 hours. To those who find that daunting, I say buy something else.

Why is high end audio different than high end cars? I'm not sure exactly why apples and oranges are different, but they sure are. Btw, if you want a brand new car to last for years and perform at its best, there is a very particular break in procedure that one must follow for the first several months. Dealers won't tell you this but auto mechanics will. Why don't they do *that* break in at the factory? The answer is pretty clear.

 

[GrantS]

It looks like there are a number of topics being discussed from Triton/Typhon to complete cable looms and break in. Caelin posted about break-in on another site and perhaps he can add that here as well.

I'll start be addressing break in. Despite the reported 500hr plus break in comments, our experience has been that our products require a 1-2 week break-in period when new --much like anything else, from speakers to amps and line-level components. Yes, they may continue to change for the better after that time but their general performance should be 75%-80% evident after 150-175 hours with enough positives to earn and hold anyone's attention. If our products performed in a significantly compromised way after 150hours, they would not be as popular as they are and our support services would be stressed. I would agree that the signal cables can take some extra time but I would put that in the 200 hr. category based on feedback we receive from dealers/distributors world-wide.

Most of our dealers keep burned in samples available and we keep some limited demo inventory available at the factory for dealers that run into odd length requests in terms of signal cables. That way, customers can audition these products rather than breaking in new. Burning in the products at our factory would be impossible on anything but a small scale given all of the different IC and SP lengths and terminations that people may request. Additionally, shipping undoes a significant amount of the burn-in that would be done at the factory. Any cable that spends a few days on a UPS truck needs to be reconditioned for about 100 hours regardless of what you do with break-in beforehand.

The power cords and Hydras usually perform well in terms of a first impression. The problems come in on on days 2-5 when they go through back and forth changes. After day 6, there should be a settling-in that occurs and the performance just gets better from that point on (generally speaking). Everyone's experience can be different for a variety of system specific reasons, but that has been the average and matches our own impressions going through the burn-in process. Signal cables; most notably speaker cables and the digital cables can take a little longer, but if someone is still unhappy after two weeks of use and prefers something else, I believe that is a fair amount of time to judge any cable's relative merits.

This brings us to cable looms and performance within a system, versus assessing some of its parts. Power-distribution forms the base-line for any electronics' system performance in our view, not unlike the room/speaker interface. Shunyata has a very specific approach to power-distribution that follows fundamental precepts related to minimizing in-line resistance to peak current and maximizing the isolation/elimination of system-generated noise. For that reason, we encourage those considering our power products to assess them as a group whenever possible. Obviously, that is not always practical but it will give the clearest insight into what what performance advantages our power-systems have to offer. When I visit studios, reviewers or dealers I travel with a full system and those results have been extremely consistent. The power-distribution base-line is always going to be the power-distributor, so that should be the first product evaluated with the same company's power cord to the wall. i realize bringing home 'one power cord' is far easier, but that gives a very incomplete view of what the company's technology may have to offer.

Judging signal cable can be a far less exact science. Unlike power-systems, which from our view have to be technically correct , signal evaluations seem to bring system balance, listening preference and music tastes more into play, adding an element of 'listening art' to the equation. In part, that explains the dizzying array of metals differences and design approaches that make up the cable market. It's clear that some signal brands and even common base-metals may suit one type of system/listener more than another. Still, the best way to judge any manufacturer's signal cable is to install the system. If that is not possible with our products, I recommend trying our speaker cables because they are the best example of the benefits conferred by the zi-tron circuit. With each interconnect thereafter, the benefits become more apparent. Mixing and matching by ear in either the power or signal category can yield perceived benefits with a specific group of electronics, but you can lose that when you next change components or even a single cable. In our view, simple, uncomplicated cable and power systems that follow a specific and understandable technical path will yield more consistent, long lasting results.

Best regards,

Grant
Shunyata Research

 

[Frank750]

Typhon with Stillpoints Ultra 5

Earlier today I placed the 2 Typhons I have connected in parallel to the amps on 4 Ultra 5s each. The TYPHONS were originally sitting on Shunyata spikes directly on carpeting in the room. While I thought the Stillpoints added a bit of air and enhanced soundstage qualities, they did so at the expense of weight to the presentation. I decided I preferred the Typhons on the Shunyata sourced spikes.

 

[Steve Williams]

Earlier today I placed the 2 Typhons I have connected in parallel to the amps on 4 Ultra 5s each. The TYPHONS were originally sitting on Shunyata spikes directly on carpeting in the room. While I thought the Stillpoints added a bit of air and enhanced soundstage qualities, they did so at the expense of weight to the presentation. I decided I preferred the Typhons on the Shunyata sourced spikes.

That's what I am going with as well Frank

 

[Duke of Earl]

I note the recommendation not to plug an amplifier into the Triton if a Typhon is also umbilicalled to the Triton. Does this also apply to preamps? I have a tube amp and a tube preamp. I wonder what would happen to the sound if I plugged a Typhon into my Triton and then plugged my amp and preamp into the Triton. Does anyone have experience here?

 

[Steve Williams]

I note the recommendation not to plug an amplifier into the Triton if a Typhon is also umbilicalled to the Triton. Does this also apply to preamps? I have a tube amp and a tube preamp. I wonder what would happen to the sound if I plugged a Typhon into my Triton and then plugged my amp and preamp into the Triton. Does anyone have experience here?

That question has been answered several times by Caelin here and hopefully he will chime in again. I don't plug my amp into my Triton and I do have a Typhon connected by Anaconda umbilical to my Triton. I also have 2 other Typhons one for each channel plugged into the same AC duplex as my amp

 

[Duke of Earl]

I have re-read this thread. I may have missed it but I have not read what the sound would be like with amp and preamp plugged into the Triton with the Typhon also plugged into it. I also do not remember having read if it is also not recommended to plug the preamp into the Triton with the Typhon also plugged into it.

 

[MtnHam]

I also do not remember having read if it is also not recommended to plug the preamp into the Triton with the Typhon also plugged into it.

If you couldn't plug your preamp into a Triton there would be little reason to buy it!

 

[Duke of Earl]

That's what I was thinking -- only for the front end? Perhaps there are experienced folks who can help with this. I already have the Triton.

 

[MtnHam]

That's what I was thinking -- only for the front end? Perhaps there are experienced folks who can help with this. I already have the Triton.

Actually, I do have all my front end and preamp connected to a Triton with Typhon. Each of my amps are directly into dedicated circuits. Two more Typhons are on order, for the amps. This, IMO and others, is the ideal set-up.

 

[Duke of Earl]

Thanks for letting me know. Does anyone know what happens to the sound with the amp plugged into the Triton with the Typhon also plugged into it?

 

[CGabriel]

I note the recommendation not to plug an amplifier into the Triton if a Typhon is also umbilicalled to the Triton. Does this also apply to preamps? I have a tube amp and a tube preamp. I wonder what would happen to the sound if I plugged a Typhon into my Triton and then plugged my amp and preamp into the Triton. Does anyone have experience here?

The TYPHON was developed specifically for the TRITON as a two chassis reference power distribution system. The TRITON has exceptional high current capability and is more than capable at handling any entire system of components including amplifiers.

The issue becomes more complex when and only when you use more than 1 dedicated line. The extra current capacity provided by a second line is quite significant. In an ideal situation, we recommend two dedicated lines. The first for source equipment and the second for amplifier(s). This gives you the high current capacity needed for mega watt amps and prevents their large current pulses from affecting all the source components.

Ideally the first dedicated line will have a TRITON/TYPHON combo feeding power to the source equipment. The second line for amps can be configured in a variety of ways but the best performance is derived by using a CYCLOPS to feed the amps with a TYPHON either connected to the CYCLOPS or at the wall outlet where the CYCLOPS is plugged in.

An alternative that many people are doing is to connect the amps direct to the wall. Install a quad-plex so that you have 4 outlets available. Then plug a TYPHON into one of the quad outlets with the amp(s) plugged into the other three. If you don't use all of the outlets you can also plug in a VENOM DEFENDER which provides the same MPDA noise filter as found in the TRITON. Some people that affectionately term "the lunatic fringe" are connecting multiple TYPHONS to a single TRITON or quad-plex.

Another option that some people have used successfully is to use a second TRITON to power the amplifiers. This is usually done in home theather or multi-channel setups where there are more than two amps. Then, the TYPHON would be connected to the TRITON.

One of the major magazine is reviewing the TRITON/TYPHON system with TYPHONs connected to mono-block amps as we have described. Can't say who it is doing the review yet but watch for it before the end of the year.

 

[Frank750]

Thanks for letting me know. Does anyone know what happens to the sound with the amp plugged into the Triton with the Typhon also plugged into it?

You can plug your amps into a Triton. The Triton is not current limiting so I don't see where it would be a bad thing. I had my Pass Xs300s plugged into a Triton/Typhon to try it out and it sounded fine. Not many amps going to pull more current than the Xs300s. I seem to recall Caelin saying it wasn't the best solution for amps but I could be wrong.

 

[Frank750]

So much for my response. The expert answered at the same time.