Trinity DAC

[acg]

Peter,

I can't help but learn when you make posts like these, so thank-you. I am sure that much of what you presented has washed over me but I have caught some of it!!

Anthony

 

[Elberoth]

Peter,

I didn't have the time to address your posts during the day, so I'm doing it now. I'm flattered that you found 99% of my post to be correct. What I cannot understand though, is your very presence in this thread.

You said you were 'invited', and gave us a link to the post #157 (http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?12023-Trinity-DAC&p=238432&viewfull=1#post238432). I went to this post, and apart from mentioning your DAC and posting a link to a review on 6moons, the poster didn't say a single word which could make you feel invited to start posting here (If there was anything strange about this post, is the very fact that someone made an effort to register to the forum, only to write a single post with the info on your DAC - but that is another story ...).

There have beed quite a few DACs mentioned in this thread - MSB, dCS, Zanden, CH. And yet, I haven't seen Martin Reynolds of dCS, Larry of MSB or Florian Cossy of CH joining the thread, not to mention bashing competing product ! That would be simply unimaginable ! Those guys are real gentelmens (and above all - have better things to do).

I first wanted to write that you do not even realise, how wrong you are speculating about the PN figures of this OCXO, which FYI performs MUCH better than the $30 Crystek XO you are using, both in ppm and PN figures (not to mention implying that people participating in this thread do not know what PN is and how to calculate the jitter figures out of it for a given bandwith); I wanted to to clarify, that the Trinity does not use a passive I/V - which you spent a whole paragraph describing + other things you have assumed but are not correct - but then I realised, that it would simply be waste of time. You are bashing the product without even knowing the design - because bashing a competing product is your way of promoting your own product.

I would be surprised if Dietmar spent 5 more minutes of his time answering your questions. When I emailed him asking some technical details about the OCXO he uses, he told me that he was asked by his by his american distributor not to post on the forums anymore. To be perfectly clear - that was two days before you joined this thread. He posted once or twice more since, rebutting some nonsense people posted in this and other thread, but I believe he understood by now, that it doesn't make much sense.

You got a fair offer from Audiocrack to test your design in his system (who is a well nown member with quite spectacular system) - but you have turned it down. You had your chance to show sth more than the endless, self promoting posts you write all over the Internet - but you decided not to.

I think we shoud stop the discussion here.

 

[tunes]

Agreed on the "let's move on" comment Adam.
Would be great for all of us laypeople non-engineer audiophiles to hear more from people with actual experience listening to the trinity about how it sounds to them. Recognizing there are not that many yet, but much interest in the product and there will be more listening opportunities as units become available. Personally, as interesting as it may be to DAC designers, i'd really prefer to know how it sounds, however subjective, from those lucky enough to get to hear it.

 

[spiritofmusic]

+1, esp the PC Drive playing rbcd into the DAC. Remember, there's a sizeable number quite happy to play physical media. Any distributor in the UK yet for Trinity digital?

 

[jsn]

Thanks Adam for your great post :
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?1203-Trinity-DAC&p=244005&viewfull=1#post244005
It is good enough for all layman like me to understand that the Trinity DAC has its own unique design advantage and justify to pay some time to listen to it.

It is no need for Dietmar to explain further in technical details like uv vs nv.

I'm more interested in how good the DAC sounds, particular paring with the Trinity PC vs pairing with highly tuned CAS ?

 

[Audiocrack]

Peter,

I didn't have the time to address your posts during the day, so I'm doing it now. I'm flattered that you found 99% of my post to be correct. What I cannot understand though, is your very presence in this thread.

You said you were 'invited', and gave us a link to the post #157 (http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?12023-Trinity-DAC&p=238432&viewfull=1#post238432). I went to this post, and apart from mentioning your DAC and posting a link to a review on 6moons, the poster didn't say a single word which could make you feel invited to start posting here (If there was anything strange about this post, is the very fact that someone made an effort to register to the forum, only to write a single post with the info on your DAC - but that is another story ...).

There have beed quite a few DACs mentioned in this thread - MSB, dCS, Zanden, CH. And yet, I haven't seen Martin Reynolds of dCS, Larry of MSB or Florian Cossy of CH joining the thread, not to mention bashing competing product ! That would be simply unimaginable ! Those guys are real gentelmens (and above all - have better things to do).

I first wanted to write that you do not even realise, how wrong you are speculating about the PN figures of this OCXO, which FYI performs MUCH better than the $30 Crystek XO you are using, both in ppm and PN figures (not to mention implying that people participating in this thread do not know what PN is and how to calculate the jitter figures out of it for a given bandwith); I wanted to to clarify, that the Trinity does not use a passive I/V - which you spent a whole paragraph describing + other things you have assumed but are not correct - but then I realised, that it would simply be waste of time. You are bashing the product without even knowing the design - because bashing a competing product is your way of promoting your own product.

I would be surprised if Dietmar spent 5 more minutes of his time answering your questions. When I emailed him asking some technical details about the OCXO he uses, he told me that he was asked by his by his american distributor not to post on the forums anymore. To be perfectly clear - that was two days before you joined this thread. He posted once or twice more since, rebutting some nonsense people posted in this and other thread, but I believe he understood by now, that it doesn't make much sense.

You got a fair offer from Audiocrack to test your design in his system (who is a well nown member with quite spectacular system) - but you have turned it down. You had your chance to show sth more than the endless, self promoting posts you write all over the Internet - but you decided not to.

I think we shoud stop the discussion here.

No intention to start the discussion again but just to be clear on this: I never spoke to Peter and never made him an offer to come over and test his dac in my system. As I wrote before, from my perspective this would not make sense. So let's move on now.

 

[PeterSt]

Adam,

I had a longer reply responding to all what I thought was wrong, but there's no use. I let this remain :

You got a fair offer from Audiocrack to test your design in his system (who is a well nown member with quite spectacular system) - but you have turned it down. You had your chance to show sth more than the endless, self promoting posts you write all over the Internet - but you decided not to.

Yep, this is part of the game of me saying "there is more going on behing the scenes". Now, since what you wrote there is again not true, I DO wonder where you get this from. I can't imagine that you dreamt it you know.
I sure would like it very much when you can eleborate about that fair offer from Audiocrack. Someone is making up things here and I am not the one.
So ? please be honest.

Regards,
Peter

 

[wisnon]

Adam,

There was no such offer, and I can attest to that fully. I tried to arrange a meetup to satisfy my own curiousity, given that the sonic signatures described by The Trinity people and the Phasure people struck me as similar AND they use the same Dac chipset. The proposed arrangement was for the Dac to be brought over to Peter's place for a comparison, and while Peter agreed, the other party respectfully declined. This is understandable, as the logistics are challenging and it would be the Trinty that would have to travel to an unfamiliar setup.

There was no intention for a shootout, just to understand if both setups have very different sounds or not. It is off the table, so no need for any more discussion. Everyone can part as friends. Remember, this is a hobby and comraderie is mandatory!

 

[spiritofmusic]

I haven't any experience of the Trinity, obv (no UK supply). But according to the Audio Exotics Forum, where the well heeled in Hong Kong and SE Asia have gone for the Trinity DAC, and now the recent PC Drive, there are whole sets of Vivaldi 4 boxes, and Soulution DACs/transports, which are being "given away" for stupid money (eg one dealer is offering £12k for the Vivaldi which would be new £70k+!).
I don't know what this says the most? That the Trinity REALLY is the new SOTA? Or that these uber DACs are so overpriced to begin with? Whatever it is, tears are being shed and flowing into the sea !
Great for some who move fast, to get the PREVIOUS sota digital for a sixth of it's list price.

 

[Elberoth]

Adam,

There was no such offer, and I can attest to that fully.

Then I must have misunderstood Audiocrack's post #360. My apology to Audiocrack.

In that case, I would be more than happy to report on the Phasure sonics if Peter sends me a sample. In fact, he can even come over and listen for himself if he wants - no problem at all.

I have no dog in this fight - I'm not a dealer/distributor/manufacturer (and never was), have learn about this product from this very thread and have been using competing products (dCS Puccini & Scarlatti, then MSB DACs) for the past 6 years.

 

[spiritofmusic]

So guys, what does the PC Drive bring to the table wrt any other transport one could use eg Mac Mini etc? My interest, even if I get into hi rez/streaming is going to be 99% rbcd. Does the synergy of all Trinity transport+ DAC really count? I say this because I'm partial to a good old fashioned all in one cdp which is pretty under the radar (and a sixth of the cost of the Trinity combo), but it's proponents feel is really quite something.

 

[redsquare]

Yes - let's get back to the sound and music!!! At Audioarts I listened to the Trinity dac with usb from a computer as well as through the Trinity transport/media player. There was no question that the best sound I heard was through the transport/media player. It sounded so alive and effortless that it really takes time to process this sound. The difference here is that I was not thinking at all about any parameters which I always do with other dacs. Another thing that sold me was the type of music we listened to. With all other dacs I'm always looking for the best recording but with the Trinity, all those old cd's from the 80's that we dismiss as awful sounding, sound better with the Trinity than hi-res on current top dacs! Bottom line it's about the quality of the recording and it's clear that the "industry" and it's pets want you to think otherwise. I generally like people/companies who think outside of the box and don't yield to current trends. I listened to all the top contenders out there but it's so ridiculous to compare it with other brands as so many subjective factors are involved. I know it's expensive but for me music is life and this dac, more than any other, communicates every nuance and emotion I ever thought possible in digital replay. It seems that many of you are in Europe so not sure about the distribution there, but NYC or Hong Kong is close to many and definitely worth a visit to see for yourself (especially at this price!) While at Audioarts, a couple just left who had flown in from Venezuela - I thought it a little nuts at first but for this kind of dinero, what's a flight? Also, very curious if those in the Asia heard it with the Tri-Point conditioner? I heard great things about this. When I auditioned the Trinity it was plugged directly into the wall - what a travesty!!

 

[spiritofmusic]

Plugged into the wall, hah! I have my minions cycling furiously to provide power to my system - off the grid, indeed! Actually I have invested a fair deal in 8kVA balanced power and the direct rival to Tripoint, the Entreq Silver Tellus grounding system, and my system has been transformed. So, yes Trinity via Troy would be something. I have to hear a component in my system, because of synergy issues (which with my electrical treatments I believe wins out over individual component performance IMHO/YMMV), so no matter how spectacular Trinity might be at a foreign demo, if I can't hear it here, I have to pass.
But that's just me, others should def really entertain travelling to hear it. Maybe a UK distributor will come thru.
Redsquare, please don't take this the wrong way, but badly mastered CDs sound REALLY REALLY bad, hence I'm struggling to reconcile your statement that they sound better than optimally presented hi rez. My Emm labs CDSA SE I bought because it was ahead of the competition on poor cds, but even it can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. You claim Trinity can.

 

[redsquare]

Spirit, I did not listen to every bad cd imaginable.... But my impression was that nothing really sounded awful, as opposed to demo's of 16/44 on other dacs.
Yes,something really special happened when listening to high rez on the Trinity but most of my collection is not high rez. What stood out for me was the universal quality - but hey, maybe for you the emphasis will be high rez which the Trinity was amazing at. I hear you and agree - you should have time with it in your system. I guess as distribution grows you'll have that chance....

 

[Alrainbow]

Red square I know exactly what you mean. I now have a MSB stack it did the same thing. Not with all , but some that I have written off with blaring sounds. Now it is really defined with grater detail . And the noise is gone and replaced with music. How does it separate the music. Meaning if there is a few singers together , and the same with instruments . Not just placement but Reality to each sound as an individual note ?

Al

 

[Audiocrack]

Trinity's website was yesterday updated. You can find all the reviews, including Audio Technique's review of the Trinity dac with some pictures albeit (for now) only in Chinees. Furthermore all Dietmar's partners in various countries are listed. So enjoy yourselves.

 

[wisnon]

Yes - let's get back to the sound and music!!! At Audioarts I listened to the Trinity dac with usb from a computer as well as through the Trinity transport/media player. There was no question that the best sound I heard was through the transport/media player. It sounded so alive and effortless that it really takes time to process this sound. The difference here is that I was not thinking at all about any parameters which I always do with other dacs. Another thing that sold me was the type of music we listened to. With all other dacs I'm always looking for the best recording but with the Trinity, all those old cd's from the 80's that we dismiss as awful sounding, sound better with the Trinity than hi-res on current top dacs! Bottom line it's about the quality of the recording and it's clear that the "industry" and it's pets want you to think otherwise.

I dont follow your logic here. You said that the Trinity dac makes "bad" 1980s CDs sound better than hiRez on current top dac, then you go on to say it's all about the quality of the recording, even though the Industry wants us to think otherwise! Isn't that inconsistent? It would be about the quality of the DAC, if it could make "bad" recordings sound better than good hiRez ones on other top Dacs.

Please elaborate.

 

[spiritofmusic]

For me the decider to go with EMM was it's ability to "decipher" badly mastered cds, which make up the majority of my collection. I suspect it must be the DAC since the transport is nothing special. Just still find that the very WORST of digital (dodgy rbcd 16/44) on Trinity can sound better than the very BEST of digital (24/96, 48/192 hi rez) on any other rig. Not disbelieving since I have no experience and Redsq has plenty, just dumbfounded .

 

[spiritofmusic]

So Keith, Trinity no longer with you, or anywhere in the UK it seems. I've not bought anything from you, but had the odd chat, and you've always been professional and charming. Why would a company withdraw from a whole country? Kudos to you to not vent your frustration. Is the UK market not more imporatant than, say, Poland, which HAS Trinity representation?
Tbh, I'm a bit negative that so many interesting brands never see the light of day over here, but if you lived in Outer Mongolia, they'd be falling over themselves to offer themselves locally.

 

[esldude]

A dac should be completely transparent of course, it is after all a digital to analogue converter, traditional NOS designs and
designs with a valve it put will change the sound.
Keith.

So are you saying that NOS designs, like tubes, are not transparent, but change the sound even though it is usually seen as sounding better? BTW, that is my opinion of what tube gear does.