Trinity DAC
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So I finally listened to the Trinity dac and server and enclosing some pictures. We compared to the CH Precision C1 with a D1 transport which we put in after as well as through ethernet/nas and USB. The system consisted of Zellaton Grand speakers along with Nagra Jazz pre and 300B amp. The wait was definitely worth it as the sound is very special. Bottom line is that you really have to hear it to get it as the sound is so difficult to describe. Absolutely no digital artifacts at all - the sound just flowed like never before. I would say it's the most "present' sound I've ever heard with unreal dynamics and beauty. Just so effortless and elegant sounding. We did not have DCS there or MSB but just based on memory, they simply are not comparable or just reproduce music differently. The Trinity was all about natural reproduction - I've never heard a system so bloody honest before. Quite frankly, it took me a while to get it as it was a completely new sound for me. Swapping with the less expensive CH was instructive as it illuminated just how good the Trinity is. As excellent as the CH is, the Trinity was just more natural and dynamic sounding - more alive. The CH portrayed music differently, less dimensioned than the Trinity but still very very musical. One major point is that the Trinity sounds consistently amazing on all digital formats. 16/44 on it sounds better than all DSD dacs I've ever heard. In any event, it looks like it's only available in Hong Kong, Germany and New York City. I tried to stay away from the "best" argument as you really have to judge for yourself....
Great stuff! Knowing Audiocrack's ear and his systems, I was expecting feedback like to be honest. I also was compelled by elberoths own decision to buy one after being a happy MSB owner. Thanks for posting. Will you be a Trinity owner?
It is available in Poland as well - I bought mine locally, from the Polish distributor - so the the distribution must be a bit broader. From what I've heard, the real problem for the distributors is to get the DAC - there is already like 3 months waiting list, so I cannot imagine how it will be when even more people learn about this product (but on the other hand - with so limited production, not many people will be able to experience it - which is a shame, really).
I was very sceptical myself - I have expressed my doubts when I first learned about this product on this forum, early in this thread (http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?12023-Trinity-DAC&p=218107&viewfull=1#post218107) - but I'm very happy I've challenged the guys from Hong Kong who discovered the Trinity first and was able to confirm that the Trinity is indeed as good as they say.
I was very sceptical myself - I have expressed my doubts when I first learned about this product on this forum, early in this thread (http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?12023-Trinity-DAC&p=218107&viewfull=1#post218107) - but I'm very happy I've challenged the guys from Hong Kong who discovered the Trinity first and was able to confirm that the Trinity is indeed as good as they say.
Thanks much for sharing your experiences. Happy to note that your experiences concur with my previous descriptions (although I have never heard the CH precision dac) and the experiences of Adam. Hopefully more members, even the sceptical ones, are going to try to listen to the Trinity dac. I am pretty sure they will be as positively amazed as we were and I suppose still are. It is, as I mentioned earlier, a formidable dac!
Hi all,
I am very happy that you like the Sound of the TRINITY System. I am sure a full fledge TRINITY set up with the matching power amp will bring the next big step.
The DAC is avalable in HK, Warsaw, Sydney, NYC, Netherland, Portugal and next month in Stockholm. We lunched the DAC last August and we did not expected such a fast ramp up.
I have already ordered parts for the next 15 devices, but the VCOCXOs have a lead time of 8 weeks, since we always start a the Crystal Level. That is the bottle neck, but I am sure it is worth to wait for it instead to use of the shelf 10MHZ components with a PLL.
One comment about the burn in time. Gideon told me that he has unpacked the DAC and PC&Drive yesterday. There is no Need for two weeks burn-in time. You have to consider that the oven controlled XO Needs Needs some time to get the target temperature. During that time the frequency shifts slightly, but after These 10 minutes all parameters are stable.
KR Dietmar
I am very happy that you like the Sound of the TRINITY System. I am sure a full fledge TRINITY set up with the matching power amp will bring the next big step.
The DAC is avalable in HK, Warsaw, Sydney, NYC, Netherland, Portugal and next month in Stockholm. We lunched the DAC last August and we did not expected such a fast ramp up.
I have already ordered parts for the next 15 devices, but the VCOCXOs have a lead time of 8 weeks, since we always start a the Crystal Level. That is the bottle neck, but I am sure it is worth to wait for it instead to use of the shelf 10MHZ components with a PLL.
One comment about the burn in time. Gideon told me that he has unpacked the DAC and PC&Drive yesterday. There is no Need for two weeks burn-in time. You have to consider that the oven controlled XO Needs Needs some time to get the target temperature. During that time the frequency shifts slightly, but after These 10 minutes all parameters are stable.
KR Dietmar
Looking at the internal construction of the Trinity...
It is running ribbon cable from the input board to the DAC/analog combined modules at the output, with all the extra noise and coloration that internal hookup wiring implies.
Also consider the clocks are on the input board, and must feed timing to the DAC chips via the long ribbon cabling links.
And to top that off its uses two SMPS power supplies.
Its a credit to the designer of this product if it performs as highly as the claims made here, because having a proper circuit board design without all the wiring links, with clocks located as close as possible to the DAC chips, and a high quality LPS in place of SMPS, will bring even more performance. Expect Trinity Reference next year?
I'm not meaning to be critical, like I say its a credit to the basic design Deitmar has come up with that he did not have to do all these things to extract general 'best evar' performance.
It is running ribbon cable from the input board to the DAC/analog combined modules at the output, with all the extra noise and coloration that internal hookup wiring implies.
Also consider the clocks are on the input board, and must feed timing to the DAC chips via the long ribbon cabling links.
And to top that off its uses two SMPS power supplies.
Its a credit to the designer of this product if it performs as highly as the claims made here, because having a proper circuit board design without all the wiring links, with clocks located as close as possible to the DAC chips, and a high quality LPS in place of SMPS, will bring even more performance. Expect Trinity Reference next year?
I'm not meaning to be critical, like I say its a credit to the basic design Deitmar has come up with that he did not have to do all these things to extract general 'best evar' performance.
Thanks for sharing this. That sounds amazing! It is heart-wearming to hear that 16/44 performs so well on this DAC -- the most important characteristic by far, since 16/44 is where all the music is.
Hi redsquare,
Your experience is exactly what I had. Therefore, you should know why I let C1 gone and kept the Trinity DAC. I'm not sure if you have the whole set Trinity DAC + Trinity PC setup. The usb connection has better sound for the Trinity DAC. I still remembered that the Trinity DAC in my CAS system started to sing and I just could not stop it until the whole CD finished.
It is the sound of music.
By the way, I compared the Trinity DAC with USB connection with C1 in the ethernet streaming mode .
Like Lloyd LL21, I'm wedded to 16/44 via rbcd disc playback. Ignoring Hi Rez for the time being, are you guys saying that playing cds via the PC drive into the DAC outperforms many if not all hi rez DSD on other systems?
Hey Spirit. Happy New Year. As you said, I am happy with rbcd given that its the main medium for music I listen to. I acknowledge that hi-res is out there, and I am confident [done right] it is better. But with the right rbcd, I find it can be so good...I stop caring anymore. And that is probably the singlemost important comment by reviewers about some rbcd digital players that I focus on. I love going thru equipment...its not only about the music...but for me, I do mainly wish to enjoy my music more and more. And when I get to a point where I just am buying music, well, that's me done.
Even if the Trinity rbcd equals, rivals or does NOT beat DSD on other systems...I am getting the sense that its rbcd playback is so good...the owners just enjoy their music. We shall see how long that level of satisfaction lasts with this product...only time will tell. But if it persists (as it has for me with my Zanden)...that is for me the truest sign of a worldclass product. (BTW, I get the sense it will last long for a lot of their owners, but again only time will tell.)
Lloyd, we're pretty much in agreement on this. But pretty exciting if rbcd thru the Trinity PC drive/DAC really does outperform, or at least equal, Hi Rez downloads/DSD on other DACs. I still have the need to handle physical media, even the lowly, unloved 5" silver disc, and have an inherent distrust of having my music on a computer. So maybe the Trinity is where I'm headed. I believe Purite Audio handles Trinity in the UK, I believe they have the phono and maybe preamp, maybe the DAC too.
Yes, I have heard that about Purite as well. If true, you really must listen to the Trinity for yourself. The evidence is piling up, and its looking like quite a great product. Definitely let me know! I am not interested in trading out my Zanden at all having honed the entire system (including the Zanden) to a point where I am happy and wish to touch fewer and fewer elements of the system (because every time I do, the balance gets thrown off). Nevertheless, I enjoy keeping tabs on the digital market for long-term reference.
There are a few digital pieces that for some reason particularly intrigue me besides my own Zanden: Metronome Kalista Ref/C2A (I have heard it extensively), DCS Vivaldi (also heard it), Trinity Transport/DAC (not heard but know owners), AudioNote DAC CDT6/5th Element DAC (not heard...but intrigued solely on basis of Martin Colloms' stupifyingly good review) and possibly Light Harmonic Dual DAC (not heard...but strong comments from people I know and respect).
Even with my lowly MSB Signature plus I stopped caring about formats and resolution a long time ago. My only regret is lack of MCH content, which - when well done - beats the crap out of any 2 channel format.
yep, I could believe that. But as you say, aint that much well done MCH out there. Enjoy your MSB Signature!!! That's hardly 'lowly' by any standards...quite a piece of equipment!!!
Lloyd, as you well know, I've got my system really singing with Entreq grounding and Westwick balanced power, and my Emm Labs CDSA SE w/X upgrade is so satisfying, that like you, I'm not in the mood to upgrade. Just yet (famous last words!). In fact grounding and power has done more to enhance digital in my system (lowered noise floor in effect raising the performance envelope, or more likely revealing it's greater potential) than analogue. I put it that there would be a lot less continual upgrading done esp. in digital, if more listeners actually addressed these aspects of their systems. Together with the move to SET amps and high efficiency full range drivered speakers, my rbcd has been totally transformed. I'm not totally convinced that there is a step in digital that is going to be so major beyond this in my system, YMMV - and with the Trinity PC Drive/DAC likely to total north of £55k, this is a step (leap?) too far just for now.
Interestingly, it took 30+ years for turntables to reach a level that we acknowledge as mature (from the advent of lp in the late '40s to Linn Lp12/Technics SP10 Mk3 in the '80s), and the same can be said for digital, with almost full majority of those who've heard it, that Trinity represents maybe a milestone in bridging the digital/analog gap, with near zero digital artifacts/fatigue etc.
Interestingly, it took 30+ years for turntables to reach a level that we acknowledge as mature (from the advent of lp in the late '40s to Linn Lp12/Technics SP10 Mk3 in the '80s), and the same can be said for digital, with almost full majority of those who've heard it, that Trinity represents maybe a milestone in bridging the digital/analog gap, with near zero digital artifacts/fatigue etc.
a short comment on your Statement, on the first view it Looks like there is space for further improvement, but that is not true. The switched mode power supply is the best possible solution and of course I use parts of the market leader with synchron rectifier at the Input.
No 50Hz hum from the transformer, neither mechanical nor electrical. No external mu-metal shielded power unit necessary. I designed in the past sensor electronic for space applications and we always used SMPS since you have no wall connector in your space ship.
At least not at that time.Even if the used VCOCXO are very low senstive to any accearation (less than 1ppb per g) it is not good to have mechanical Vibration in the enclsoure.
At least it is my design philosophy.
The Output voltage of this modules are connected to two low drop voltage Regulator, after that I have a passive common mode filter, which reduces the the ripple further and that filter feeds another voltage Regulators. That means the voltage is 3 times clean from any artefacts of the SMPS before it goes to the main PCBs and on These PCBs there are the real lownoise voltage Regulators. Overall there are roughly 30 voltage Regulators inside the DAC. By the way I use the same technique in the TRINITY Phono and there I have to amplify Signal smaller than 1nV!!!!
Actually you can calulated the necessary so called "power supply rejection" which is part of the data Sheets.
As you can see the PCM 1704 has a very good power supply rejection by itself and it gets a supply voltage with less than 15µV noise on it. This has to be devided by the worse case of 80dB(10.000) and you get the value visible at the DAC IC Output, which is in the range of 1,5nV. Means this remaining power supply noise is by a factor of 1000 to small to harm the Output Signal.
Back to the ribbon cable I assume that you donot know that These cable carry ballanced signals and that These ribbon cable are use as terminated Transmission lines with a bandwidth of 600MHz. Another Advantage is that the digital gorund bouncing stays on the Input board. If you would design eveything on one board you will significant degree the Performance and will get a lot of digital noise on your analog board, especially since I have no active low-pass filter in the Signal chain between DAC and XLR connector.
By the way These cable are not cheap ribbon cable, even if they are vey small each contact can handle 4A!!!.
You have always see the complete package and believe me I know what I do. Or as Mr. Royce alreday said "Small things make perfection, but perfection s not a small Thing"
KR dietmar
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