why is a $28K speaker being compared with a $50k speaker ? It doesn't sound like a fair match. A Q3 would be a better comparo, imo.
Magico S5 vs Wilson Alexia
- Thread starter mbovaird
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Really Christian, I'm not so sure it's wrong to make this comparison. High end pricing doesn't seem to relate to anything in the real world. I compared my Zu Audio Definitions 4 spkrs ($16k) to other brands/models at up to 3x the price, and felt it outperformed them. And with the high end, esp Magico, putting up their already often inflated prices up all the time, i feel theres no problem in comparing a $3k spkr to a $10k spkr, and a $16k spkr to a $50k spkr, let alone a $28k spkr to a $50k one.
No disrespect intended to you, but I find this line of argument frustrating, price CANNOT surely be the arbiter of comparisons.
No disrespect intended to you, but I find this line of argument frustrating, price CANNOT surely be the arbiter of comparisons.
So you think Magico has inflated prices? But in this case, the $28K Magico speaker is being compared favorably to a much more expensive $50K speaker. So I guess you are saying that Magico represents good value? Many agree with you.
Yes, I guess if you compare these two directly. And if one could compare the $28k Magico to my $16k Zu...I've heard a pair of $5k spkrs that rival my $16k Zus, and maybe the $28k Magicos. And hence the merry-go-'round re high end pricing continues. My point was to Christian that it was unfair to dismiss the comparison based on price.
Spiritofmusic,
Nothing is wrong in making a comparison, the problem is when people try to conclude too much with the poor comparisons.
And a comment saying that our own named speakers outperform anonymous speakers costing 3x the price is not a great help to debates.
And I have to say that IMHO, most of the time High End pricing seems to related to the real world, the situation you refer is the exception.
People usual focus on these eccentric exceptions, ignoring factors that should weight such statements, such as real sales of these products. If someone sells 3 units costing $100K this is not significant for our generalizations.
BTW, I always feel unhappy when some one claims "direct comparisons". For me 99% of time it means an unfair comparison. YMMV.
I agree Microstrip. It's just that I wanted to disagree with Christian that these two price bands couldn't be compared. Does this mean that the AE SOGON at upwards of $135k can't be compared to anything below this figure (esp. with my Zu's using the same technology gives you $120k change out of this figure)?
Bruce B
WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
Sadly, the deciding factor for most consumers is price. What's the first thing the salesperson, and us on this forum, ask? "What's your Budget"??
The Q series is Magico's top of line products...not the S series. That is why I felt it was a better comparison with alexia. Feel free to compare the kef ls50 with alexia if that floats your boat.
Maybe you're right Christian. I've got better things to do, tbh. I'm not a massive fan of many uber spkrs like Wilson and Magico, prefer the tone of full range drivers like my Zu's, and horns implemented well, but that's just my opinion. Just feel price shouldn't be the major arbiter. it's getting a little silly to say a small stand mount/mini monitor to be compared with a substantial floorstander. Anyway, I'm signing off on this one.
As I said, everything can be compared, but unless some one does it and reports on it, describing the results and the systems used, IMHO he is just playing the boaster, no disrespect to anyone
Just consider this question : how would you compare your Zu to the Sogon? In your system or in a complete top AE system? BTW, I never listened to a Zu speaker, I am not commenting anyway on its performance. I see many people claiming that price is not correlated with quality, but unfortunately these people seldom give us meaningful and factual documented cases, they love to move in the zone of the ultra-expensive, where the law of diminishing returns makes comparisons very inconclusive, or improperly assembled or setup systems.
Back on the thread main subject, both Martin Colloms reviews (Alexia and S5) are now available online. Reading and comparing the subjective part of both, anyone knowing MC writings in Hifi Critic for a few years will be able to read between the lines.
I appreciate threads like this since I try to consider all responses as possibly useful data to help me make a purchase. Like many others, I do not have unlimited funds, so I try to maximize my purchases by getting the "best" for the least. I am now putting together my retirement system. At that point, I will be eating cat food, so I want to make sure I make wise purchases now. I have decided to upgrade my two-channel speakers, which will then allow me to upgraded the HT/Surround system with the old two-channel speakers. Anyway, at this point, $30K for a pair of speakers is my target. At this range, we have, amongst others, the Magico S5 and the new Wilson Sasha W/P 2. So, reading comparisons between the S5 and the Alexia is a useful exercise.
I am a believer that you get what you pay for. Magico and Wilson are both US based, so their parts and labor costs should be similar. This would indicate sonic differences are due to design philosophies, and not cheap labor. So, the question is which one has the more successful speaker design? Which one gives me the best bang for the buck, and if they are sonically similar, which has the better aesthetics.
I am a believer that you get what you pay for. Magico and Wilson are both US based, so their parts and labor costs should be similar. This would indicate sonic differences are due to design philosophies, and not cheap labor. So, the question is which one has the more successful speaker design? Which one gives me the best bang for the buck, and if they are sonically similar, which has the better aesthetics.
Labor costs may be similar between the two brands, but there is some discussion about parts costs being considerably different. Regardless, and this may be obvious to all, the best way to evaluate the differences between the S5 and the Sasha 2 is to hear them both in your system, if possible. That way you will know for sure which you prefer.
Good advise, but how many dealers are willing to bring these speakers to your home?
Are there any dealers that sell both WA and Magico where you could hear both speakers in the same room?
Plus, it will probably be 2/14, before WA dealers get their Sasha Series 2 demos.
BTW, I think the OP purchased S5s, so maybe we need a new thread- Magico S5 vs Wilson Sasha Series 2.
If it were a customer in my area showing a real and qualified interest then I would absolutely loan out a $30K speaker (or a $100K speaker for that matter). I may ask for some assistance in offsetting the cost of getting them there (movers), but would look at it as an opportunity to help the client make an informed decision. It would also help alleviate any post-order / pre-delivery jitters. After all, the only way to know for certain that something will work in your room is to try it in your room.
My demos exist to help customers find that combination that really excites them and they can't do that sitting idle in a showroom. Sure, they'll get some cosmetic patina in the process and may get badly damaged, but I'm well-insured and I tend to trust people shopping at this level.
Finding a dealer that carries Wilson and Magico may be difficult. Off the top of my head I don't know of any in the US that do.
Most likely it will be difficult to get in home demos, especially for any length of time. I can appreciate dealers who try to go the extra mile for customers. When I bought my current speakers the dealer gave me a one month window to return them for a full refund. Anyway, that is why I like threads like this. Gather enough anecdotal data and you can make a better decision.
I run a small business (not audio), and deliver exceptional service to my customers. I own Magico S5s, and having moved them, I wouldn't expect my dealer to deliver either Magico or Wilson speakers to my house. It would be more reasonable for the dealer to help me move my electronics (if he/she didn't carry them) to their listening room, set them up, give me personal time in their listing room, then allow me to make comparisons and a decision. I mean, really, think about the manpower and labor costs, "accidents" in moving the expensive speakers around, speaker time away from the dealer's listening room and subsequent lost sales due to this, etc. The prospective buyer may agree to cover such incidentals, but when they happen, I imagine a "misunderstanding" would be the norm with hard feeling all the way around. Listen a lot, do your homework, make a decision, (knowing that you will not be the first person with a perfect system-never will be one), and enjoy music in your house. Are there really that many people out there who feel it is reasonable to expect a dealer to move and deliver 200-500 lb speakers to a prospective buyer? Someone is going to be paying for that shopper who takes advantage of the dealer, and it isn't going to be the "shopper", IMHO
I have a friend who paid 1% ($500) of the cost of the Alexia to audition them at home in his own system for ten days. He would have lost the money if he returned the speakers, but because he decided to buy the speakers, the $500 was taken off the purchase price.
He is confident that his local Magico dealer would offer him a similar audition of the S5 for $500. He has already taken his amps to the dealer to hear the S5, but the room, cables and set up are very different. The in-home audition also allows one to DIRECTLY compare his current speakers to those he is considering. That is hard to do at a dealership unless the dealer also happens to carry his current speakers.
Re the friend who paid 1%- 2 questions.
1) Did he purchase the actual speakers he auditioned for $500. discount, OR were they demos, and those speakers had to be lugged back to the dealership, new speakers ordered, and then delivered- all for $500?
2) If he had not purchased the Alexias (or the Magicos), what are the dealers obligations to the NEXT interested buyer of those same speakers? I would want to know that the speakers I was purchasing had been auditioned by another individual for 10 days- not under any environment totally controlled by the dealer, wouldn't you? I'm sure the warranty would be complete, but I would have to think long and hard about putting that much of my hard earned money into a used speaker.
As it was, it worked out great for both the dealer and customer. I'm not so sure that would be the norm, knowing how much tire kicking goes around in the audio business. Perhaps the said dealer could comment on how he/she would handle such a scenario. Worst case scenario can happen and bite the businessman all too often.
1) Did he purchase the actual speakers he auditioned for $500. discount, OR were they demos, and those speakers had to be lugged back to the dealership, new speakers ordered, and then delivered- all for $500?
2) If he had not purchased the Alexias (or the Magicos), what are the dealers obligations to the NEXT interested buyer of those same speakers? I would want to know that the speakers I was purchasing had been auditioned by another individual for 10 days- not under any environment totally controlled by the dealer, wouldn't you? I'm sure the warranty would be complete, but I would have to think long and hard about putting that much of my hard earned money into a used speaker.
As it was, it worked out great for both the dealer and customer. I'm not so sure that would be the norm, knowing how much tire kicking goes around in the audio business. Perhaps the said dealer could comment on how he/she would handle such a scenario. Worst case scenario can happen and bite the businessman all too often.
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