Has anyone heard the Devialet D-Premier Integrated Amp/DAC
- Thread starter FrantzM
- Start date
You are correct - it is not rocket science, it is far more sophisticated than that. From the multiphase digital drive to the DSP programming, even to the power factor corrected power supply, the D-Premier demonstrates what can be achieved through applying mathematics and the laws of physics to technology and a market that has fallen prey to every conceivable piece of pseudo scientific witchcraft in the last two decades. This amplifier will not respond to amateurish tweeking without degrading - so please let's not start evoking non existent, quasi religious, supernatural thinking to "improvements" better suited to the 18C.
G
gorkitek, please be assured I do not want to really go on this topic anymore, there are a lot of products on the market in audio with power factor corrected power supply including most power conditioners, my Pioneer Elite AV receiver definitely has more dsp inside or for that matter any AV receiver and so does any DAC in a reasonable price level.
What Devialet has done different is the amp module the ADH and surface mounted every single component to make it more compact and shorter signal path etc etc, the circuit board looks no different than say a normal computer which hardly has no wires.
Maybe you have never seen the demonstration of devialet taking off the Digital module amp and running it in class A, search the tube. Like the wireless card which when first released the user could install it in 10 mins and have also done so, as it clips on to a slot and easy to do.
I don't know what the argument here is all about as the D amplifier module just clips on to a slot on the main mother board, have you even looked at the interior pictures. As I have indicated that the difference in power is just most likely due to a different D amplifier module board, which could be easily swapped if we could get it separately, which likely wont happen, It was just an IDEA and which is easily POSSIBLE.
I don't know what's the big fuss here................
What Devialet has done different is the amp module the ADH and surface mounted every single component to make it more compact and shorter signal path etc etc, the circuit board looks no different than say a normal computer which hardly has no wires.
Maybe you have never seen the demonstration of devialet taking off the Digital module amp and running it in class A, search the tube. Like the wireless card which when first released the user could install it in 10 mins and have also done so, as it clips on to a slot and easy to do.
I don't know what the argument here is all about as the D amplifier module just clips on to a slot on the main mother board, have you even looked at the interior pictures. As I have indicated that the difference in power is just most likely due to a different D amplifier module board, which could be easily swapped if we could get it separately, which likely wont happen, It was just an IDEA and which is easily POSSIBLE.
I don't know what's the big fuss here................
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I have indeed with my own D-Premier, a couple of years ago. However, this misses the point, the performance of the Class A amp is actually very different with the ADH (digital) module removed - for example, the output impedance rises dramatically and the linearity declines with reactive loads. The design of the ADH system is very subtle, particularly the multi-phase drive and the elimination of any low pass filters but the overall performance is identical up to any maximum power rating which will be set by the available p-p voltage swing for any particular load with the D module in place.
You can of course set this swing yourself and so I am not sure why you would want to change the digital module.
G
Oh it was just a wild thought, as I thought the cost of that small digital board cannot be much, as all it would have is a few extra output stages for more power. So if I could just have more power for almost the same price as I paid for the 170 it would be stellar and maybe even sell my module to someone with a 110, which likely wont happen as the power supply in the 110 and a few other things are different. I am an engineer so my brains are always ticking, I am always thinking of ways how to achieve maximum gain without spending maximum money. By the way I am not really a geeky engineer, given the fact that I am in Sales, but my mind always wanders, LOL!!
Anyways eagerly waiting for my 170, hopefully this week.......the damn shipment should come in soon, but I have not heard a peep from the dealer yet.
One reason I went for the 170 is the green aspect of the technology and to simplify my setup as much as possible, living in a condo. I have changed 4 amps in the last 1.5 years plus other audio stuff, its just a crazy hobby for me, as I like to try new stuff
I have taken delivery of a brand new pair of D Premiers this weekend. Superb product and outperforms my outgoing Audio Research reference pre and power amp! (to my ears anyways!)
I read on the website help section that the preferred connection between master and slave is RCA to AES/EBU. Currently I am using RCA to RCA but would like to implement the optimal solution. I have two questions:
Is it possible to configure the AES/EBU on the master unit as an output? It does not appear so on the online Configurator. I have no current need for the AES/EBU input so would prefer for the connection between master and slave units to be AES/EBU on both ends? Especially as the connection between master and slave will be long.
Assuming that answer above is negative then the suggested preferred option is RCA to AES/EBU. My question then is which type of cable should i have made up?
a) would this be an AES cable with an RCA - ie AES uses two twisted cores (hot plus cold) in a screen (ground); or
b) a coax cable with an XLR? ie one core ((hot) inside a screen, where the screen is the ground and cold conductor at the same time).
Your shedding light on the above would be greatly appreciated!
I read on the website help section that the preferred connection between master and slave is RCA to AES/EBU. Currently I am using RCA to RCA but would like to implement the optimal solution. I have two questions:
Is it possible to configure the AES/EBU on the master unit as an output? It does not appear so on the online Configurator. I have no current need for the AES/EBU input so would prefer for the connection between master and slave units to be AES/EBU on both ends? Especially as the connection between master and slave will be long.
Assuming that answer above is negative then the suggested preferred option is RCA to AES/EBU. My question then is which type of cable should i have made up?
a) would this be an AES cable with an RCA - ie AES uses two twisted cores (hot plus cold) in a screen (ground); or
b) a coax cable with an XLR? ie one core ((hot) inside a screen, where the screen is the ground and cold conductor at the same time).
Your shedding light on the above would be greatly appreciated!
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wow submitted the request to Devialet via their website and got a reply very promptly
The AES/EBU cant be configured as an output and they sent a link re instructions for cable manufacture https://help.devialet.com/attachments/token/ak3wm837sd2sw50/?name=XLR-RCA2.gif
Oh it was just a wild thought, as I thought the cost of that small digital board cannot be much, as all it would have is a few extra output stages for more power. So if I could just have more power for almost the same price as I paid for the 170 it would be stellar and maybe even sell my module to someone with a 110, which likely wont happen as the power supply in the 110 and a few other things are different. I am an engineer so my brains are always ticking, I am always thinking of ways how to achieve maximum gain without spending maximum money. By the way I am not really a geeky engineer, given the fact that I am in Sales, but my mind always wanders, LOL!!
Anyways eagerly waiting for my 170, hopefully this week.......the damn shipment should come in soon, but I have not heard a peep from the dealer yet.
One reason I went for the 170 is the green aspect of the technology and to simplify my setup as much as possible, living in a condo. I have changed 4 amps in the last 1.5 years plus other audio stuff, its just a crazy hobby for me, as I like to try new stuff
You won't be disappointed. This is by far the best amp I have ever owned or heard - including my Krell's.
Mine is paired with QUAD 2905's and dates back to Devialet's original production run and is rock solid and unchanging.
AIR can still be worrisome so I still use an external streamer. Nearly there though!
G
Just to clarify, what Devialet (Thierry, who works for them) has said is this:
"Now, the differences between the D-Premier and the D240 are mainly the inputs and the new DSP. If you don't need the new inputs, the D-Premier might just be the perfect answer to your needs! Even if we have tweaked here and there the electronics, I am ready to bet that very few people can make the difference between a D-Premier and a D240. Why? Because the D-Premier is already the ultimate music reproduction tool!
The D110 doesn't sound better than the D-Premier. It has the same sound signature. It has the same ADH stage. On the other hand it has been stripped down to answer the needs of a particular customer base who don't need the bells and whistles of a D-Premier or a D240, will never need to build a multi amp system and just need 110W of power. Totally different products for different needs."
This is refreshing honesty from a manufacturer when many would say "our new product is better than our old one".
Devialet are effectively saying "The D-Premier and the 240 sound the same. If you want the same sound signature with less power and fewer facilities you now have some cheaper options in the 110 and the 170."
I got ex demo d premier. But I won't upgrade USB and Ethernet. I use AIR and SPDIF only
I do not agree as I have read that Devialet had some comments on their website saying the new products were better and then took it off from the website, especially not to offend existing d-premier owners. I am not saying that the original d-premier is bad in any respect, but to simply say that the the newer products are not better is BS. In every industry i.e. audio, cars etc. the manufacturer brings out a new model or different revision, making it better. Are you telling me a 2014 Porsche 911 is equal to a 2010 911 model?? If that may be the case simply technology would not advance. Again I am not saying the original d-premier is bad at all, but life moves on and so does Devialet as a company who's business practices cannot be different than any other company, in order to survive. I don't care what PR hash they try to give, it is extremely hard to swallow that the 240 will sound exactly as the d-premier, given the power supply, board and DSP are different.
I do not think the management team or the engineering team at Devialet would be sitting there thinking, ok we made a stellar product when we launched the d-premier in 2010, now it is 2013 and we are launching 3 new products, lets keep everything the same but offer few options and make no changes to the exiting technology.
ARC Ref 3 Pre and ARC Ref 110 power and ARC Ref CD8
Still have ARC Ref Phono 2. Still need to compare it to internal Phono but waiting for a longer coax cable to be made up
Nonetheless that is exactly the situation. There are no changes to the ADH technology that affect sound quality. There is a small reduction in thermal disippation but everything else are feature changes - some forward some retrograde ( in my view) - such as HDMI sacrifice.
To my mind that is a very strong marketing message even if it seems weaker from a sales viewpoint.
G
Anyone knows why the HDMI option was taken out and also why no DSD yet? HDMI can be quite buggy but this is no AV receiver that much switching is required. Most HDMI issues are with switching inputs, nothing else. I am more concerned with DSD and if it is going to be implemented ever.
difficulties with 6.08 and 2.1 ? Probably a solution
am an old highend friend with a long-time experience in developing different highend stuff. Have owned some of the most praised amps, boxes etc. Now: Premier, Magico V2 (with an important bit modified), JPS Aluminata spkr, Deltatronic computer with heatpipe cooling + W7 + 2 x 480 GB SSDs, Audioquest Diamond Ethernet cables from Computer to Router and from Router to PowerLAN (before these terrible expensive Audioquests have tried "kilos" of different Ethernet cables)
Never have had such phantastic sounding amps like the Devialet Premier in hand. Have had no problems with the updates - until 6.-- and 2.--.
My difficulties with the last update could be solved by the following:
It is a must to switch the Devialet first ! into standby or shut off. After that i can press the computer power knob to go to the "save energy - modus" without having any problems.
If the Devialet is active, pressing the power knob of the computer results in a short visible "Blue Screen" followed by an unwanted shut down etc.
Another experience: connecting the Blue Dot (made by Audio Magic/USA) to the Devialet results in a finer more open and airier sound.
am an old highend friend with a long-time experience in developing different highend stuff. Have owned some of the most praised amps, boxes etc. Now: Premier, Magico V2 (with an important bit modified), JPS Aluminata spkr, Deltatronic computer with heatpipe cooling + W7 + 2 x 480 GB SSDs, Audioquest Diamond Ethernet cables from Computer to Router and from Router to PowerLAN (before these terrible expensive Audioquests have tried "kilos" of different Ethernet cables)
Never have had such phantastic sounding amps like the Devialet Premier in hand. Have had no problems with the updates - until 6.-- and 2.--.
My difficulties with the last update could be solved by the following:
It is a must to switch the Devialet first ! into standby or shut off. After that i can press the computer power knob to go to the "save energy - modus" without having any problems.
If the Devialet is active, pressing the power knob of the computer results in a short visible "Blue Screen" followed by an unwanted shut down etc.
Another experience: connecting the Blue Dot (made by Audio Magic/USA) to the Devialet results in a finer more open and airier sound.
Well, there are three solutions.
1 Take it up with Devialet and dispute what they are saying in terms of sound quality
2 Buy a D-Premier and a 240 and get statistically reliable differences using double blind testing
3 Believe what you want to believe
Yes, I suspect they have improved the engineering of the boards as one would expect after three years' production management experience. Improved the sound discernibly - doubtful.
And as for use analogies, the Porsche example (which Devialet carelessly used themselves) is hardly appropriate as it is seeking to solve much more complex problems and still getting nowhere close to perfection.
No product is perfect, the world would be boring then. But working towards perfection is a continuous improvement and that's why we have new models with any products in life, it doesn't only have to be cars or audio!
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