So I bought I pair of Rockports...

[andromedaaudio]

Money versus performance , lloyd is pretty much right in my opinion , only snobs or dummies look only at price .
Look at performance cars , take a Lambo gallardo or a ferrari F 458 italia , on status/apperance /price the lambo might be the equall , but when they go around the track ,.....fffferrari.

 

[edorr]

Money versus performance , lloyd is pretty much right in my opinion , only snobs or dummies look only at price .
Look at performance cars , take a Lambo gallardo or a ferrari F 458 italia , on status/apperance /price the lambo might be the equall , but when they go around the track ,.....fffferrari.

Just curious. Have you ever taken said Lambo and Ferrari models down a track or are you relying on "reviewers"?

 

[andromedaaudio]

There is a program on english television with the stig as driver "Topgear " , who took all the topcars to the track , same driver and the ferrari is fast fast , laptimes dont lie .
It must be the race background .

 

[edorr]

There is a program on english television with the stig as driver "Topgear " , who took all the topcars to the track , same driver and the ferrari is fast fast , laptimes dont lie .
It must be the race background .

Good point, as opposed to "sound quality", cars' performance can actually be measured in track times .....

 

[andromedaaudio]

Money measure ???
Now back on topic , i am curious at the performance of the sidefiring woofer of the rockport , i am sure the room fill /pressure will be somewhat different compared to the frontfiring wilson

 

[microstrip]

Good point, as opposed to "sound quality", cars' performance can actually be measured in track times .....

If your defined car performance by the track time it is easy ... And I am sure the experts will agree that it depends also on track and driver.

 

[RBFC]

If your defined car performance by the track time it is easy ... And I am sure the experts will agree that it depends also on track and driver.

Was thinking the same thing, much in the same way that associated equipment can hide or reveal differences in a component.

Lee

 

[LL21]

Money measure ???
Now back on topic , i am curious at the performance of the sidefiring woofer of the rockport , i am sure the room fill /pressure will be somewhat different compared to the frontfiring wilson

Yes...i have been meaning to ask someone *you* about that, Andromeda since you design speakers. What are the implications of side firing woofers in your opinion? Both in terms of their nuances in required setup (vs front firing) and also how they couple to the room.

For example, ported bass sometimes requires more care relative to the back wall. Sealed in really well isolated cabinets, perahps not as much so. Are side facing woofers (that often face inwards depending on how you set up the Rockports of course)...sensitive to side walls?

Again, does the bass tend to 'couple' with the room differently? Very curious! Thanks for any guidance.

 

[andromedaaudio]

To be honest , i cant really say yet , but that will be different before years end , since i am designing a modular system (which is currently being built finally ), with a bass reflex pipe that can be removed and closed.
I will be able to rotate the bass module 360 degrees to hear the side firing /backfiring effect.
Designing great bass is more of an art /and experience then measuring , i have not heard high quality speakers side firing bass speakers to have an opinion.
One thing i could think of is possible audible delay ,as it takes longer for a tone to reach you with a sidefiring one as with a front firing one .
One thing i also like and have heard (but what will not be realised in my design )is a high bassspeaker firing at you at say 1,50 meter height for example ,great roomfill

 

[LL21]

To be honest , i cant really say yet , but that will be different before years end , since i am designing a modular system (which is currently being built finally ), with a bass reflex pipe that can be removed and closed.
I will be able to rotate the bass module 360 degrees to hear the side firing /backfiring effect.
Designing great bass is more of an art /and experience then measuring , i have not heard high quality speakers side firing bass speakers to have an opinion.
One thing i could think of is possible audible delay ,as it takes longer for a tone to reach you with a sidefiring one as with a front firing one .
One thing i also like and have heard (but what will not be realised in my design )is a high bassspeaker firing at you at say 1,50 meter height for example ,great roomfill

Thank you...very much appreciated. Would love to learn more about your findings as you finetune your own bass designs...which sound fascinating by the way. As for high-firing bass...are you referring to designs (like Evolution Acoustics MM3/MM7 or Rockport Arrakis where they have full d'appolito...so dual bass drivers...1 at ground level and 1 up 6 feet in the air?)

 

[andromedaaudio]

Both designs ,kharma also does it however i have not heard that one either .
the largest speaker i heard was a dali megaline

Thank you...very much appreciated. Would love to learn more about your findings as you finetune your own bass designs...which sound fascinating by the way. As for high-firing bass...are you referring to designs (like Evolution Acoustics MM3/MM7 or Rockport Arrakis where they have full d'appolito...so dual bass drivers...1 at ground level and 1 up 6 feet in the air?)

 

[LL21]

Thank you...very much appreciated. Would love to learn more about your findings as you finetune your own bass designs...which sound fascinating by the way. As for high-firing bass...are you referring to designs (like Evolution Acoustics MM3/MM7 or Rockport Arrakis where they have full d'appolito...so dual bass drivers...1 at ground level and 1 up 6 feet in the air?)

Both designs ,kharma also does it however i have not heard that one either .
the largest speaker i heard was a dali megaline

Interesting...i think Albert Porter (of AGon fame among other things) has just replaced his Dali Megalines with the latest Focal Grande Utopia EM. Installing around now i think.

Using your technical background...why do you think Rockport has these larger woofers on the side? Few others do...but Andy Payor is one well-respected designer, so i am sure there is a reason he is doing it. That said, perhaps there are reasons others are NOT doing it? Thoughts?

 

[andromedaaudio]

Well one i could think off is course asthetical/visual , people might not want to look at a wide baffle in the listening room, iirc the rockport arrakis uses 2 15 inch (audiotechnologie motors with custom membrane) woofers , the cabinet has off course to be quite wide to accomodate them .

 

[LL21]

Well one i could think off is course asthetical/visual , people might not want to look at a wide baffle in the listening room, iirc the rockport arrakis uses 2 15 inch (audiotechnologie motors with custom membrane) woofers , the cabinet has off course to be quite wide to accomodate them .

In other words, you get narrow baffle for your imaging from the tweeters/mids...and with a deep speaker (that you sort of dont see when looking at it...plus most speakers are a few feet out from the back wall anway)...you have the space to place a big woofer that way.

In theory, do you get the benefits of narrow baffle speaker in terms of imaging/placement/disappearing, etc...while also having big bass? Or is that all just crap i've read from too many ads and marketing material about narrow baffle?

 

[andromedaaudio]

Well you see a lot of designs with a small baffle around the tweeter and mids , like the "tower speakers" mentioned
The arrakis will still have that even if the bassspeakers would be front mounted , that doesnt change .
frequencies become more directional as they get higher in freq .
Wide baffles(tweeter /mids ) can sound boxy , an example in my opinion(dont shoot me ) is the magico M5 and to lesser extent the S 5

 

[LL21]

Well you see a lot of designs with a small baffle around the tweeter and mids , like the "tower speakers" mentioned
The arrakis will still have that even if the speakers would be front mounted , that doesnt change .
frequencies become more directional as they get higher in freq .
Wide baffles(tweeter /mids ) can sound boxy , bad example in my opinion(dont shoot me ) is the magico M5 and to lesser extent the S 5

very interesting...thanks. I accept what you say. i am curious if you ever heard the SF Stradivari? It did not have pinpoint placement, but i also did not think 'boxy' came to my mind when i used to listen to them. Was that a different kind of baffle design even though it was clearly wide?

 

[andromedaaudio]

I heard the SF stradivari at the guy who sold the Studer B 62 to me , a sloping baffle helps a lot , i still think a wide baffle sits in the way as far as spaciousness is concerned , but if it slopes it helps .

 

[LL21]

I heard the SF stradivari at the guy who sold the Studer B 62 to me , a sloping baffle helps a lot , i still think a baffle sits in the way as far as spaciousness is concerned , but if it slopes it helps .

got it...makes some sense to me. My observation is that spaciousness as in really getting a tangible sense of the spatial surroundings was not a particular strength of the Strad. I owned them and loved them, but not for that. their tone was always beautiful to behold, and it delivered a reasonably full range with excellent balance for most all music i listened to (quartets, jazz, acapella to rock, blues to hip hop, deep house electronic and orchestral symphonies...so quite varied).

But while not boxy per se, it did not image particularly well...never been a priority of mine anyway so fine with that.

 

[LL21]

I heard the SF stradivari at the guy who sold the Studer B 62 to me , a sloping baffle helps a lot , i still think a wide baffle sits in the way as far as spaciousness is concerned , but if it slopes it helps .

let me switch topics...but stay on topic for this thread. One of the key attributes of Rockports is an electrostatic like speed and transparency. At the same time, i always remember Apogee Grands and most recently heard the Genesis 1.1 (custom modd'd by former colleague of Arnie Nudell/Paul McGowan)...and remain mesmerized by panels/ribbons.

Given the comments about Rockport Altairs...how far have cones come in your opinion...specifically to match the intense speed/transparency of panels/ribbons...while of course delivering the sheer impact that typically cones do well?

Is there still an intrinsic advantage with panels/ribbons...or is that a bias of older cone/driver technology? I think not just about more recent cones/driver/cabinet work of Magico and Rockport...but even of Focals new Grand Utopia where the magnet is electrically powered to create a magnetic force to control the woofer that is dozens of times more powerful than a comparably sized magnet.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Never heard rockports ,problem with the electrostrats i heard is proper woofer integration, , i think cone /box speakers are about "fully outdesigned " if there would be miles of advantage your X 1s wouldnt be still in your room would they ???
Big "active" bass magnets ?? with neodymium magnets one can also get very strong magnetic fields , if thats what youre after , difference in sound? could be but doubt it
fundamentally its a very simple and effective technique , membrane /voicecoil/box designs and not that much has fundamentally changed since the invention