Reflections on cable pricing insanity

[rockitman]

the amount of insurance I needed to buy on that box was sobering... about $45K.

how much does that level of insurance cost roughly ?

 

[edorr]

how much does that level of insurance cost roughly ?

UPS - 2%.
Fedex, not real "insurance", but Fedex assumes liability up to declared value at FAR lower cost than UPS insurance.

 

[edorr]

Speaking of expensive cabling. An email from cable co showed up. They are closing out the wirewold platinum eclipse 6 at half price (new version 7 comes out). Since this it the alleged gold standard in USB cables I could not resists (currently use synergistic research). Combined with the cable cooker I bought earlier this week, I blew yet again through the budget.... Oh well.

 

[microstrip]

Cables are an intersting thing. Everyone feels they sound different but no one can pick out their cable from another. I am sure I couldn't either but yet agree there is a difference.

I am not sure that I could pick an individual cable from another in an unkown system . However I had my system wired with complete sets of Shunyata (orion + antares) Kimber (KS1136 + KS3038) and Transparent (Opus IC's + REF MM2 sp). Although I never carried blind tests a few times I carried comparisons and asked innocent friends (some do not even know that there are tube or SS amplifiers) and the consistency on the opinions was very expressive. The largest difference was between the Shunyata's and the Kimbers - most people preferred the music flow with the Shunyata but found it lacked detail and bass slam compared to the Kimber. I have used a full set of Valhala's and they were very disagreeable in my system, although they sounded great in the owner's system, from whom I borrowed the full set.

I also hosted a full set of Odin's with the power cables for a few days and the difference between my cables and this set was very large, but I must forget about it!

Soon I will be able to listen to a complete set of Kubala Sosna Elation cables.

Most of these opinions were based in auditions carried with the SoundLab Elestrostatic A1px's.

A common mistake when comparing cables is mixing brands - the main characteristics wash and choice becomes more difficult. Comparing complete systems is the best way of knowing the cables signatures.

As usual, all IMHO.

 

[AMP]

how much does that level of insurance cost roughly ?

My dealer provided me with a lower number to use so as to save on the insurance rates. I still paid close to $300 in insurance.

UPS - 2%.
Fedex, not real "insurance", but Fedex assumes liability up to declared value at FAR lower cost than UPS insurance.

UPS is less than that. It's a small base fee plus $0.80 per $100.00 of coverage.

 

[LL21]

Hi on the Reference cables with MM2...pretty sure their is just 2 settings...lo z and hi z...so this links to your answer on no need to change... the Ref MM MM2 (their names are very confusing) is highly tuned to exact impedances...that's really the reason to buy that cable over the Ref with MM2. I expect you're in for a big improvement Lloydelee...

Thanks...good to know. It has been on someone's shelf for 2.5 months in a box. So i have had it in for a few hours only...just listening to it to get a feel for the current difference between my old TA Ref (with XL).

 

[vinylphilemag]

I also hosted a full set of Odin's with the power cables for a few days and the difference between my cables and this set was very large, but I must forget about it!

Would I be correct in interpreting that statement as "I liked the Odin, but my bank account doesn't!"?

A common mistake when comparing cables is mixing brands - the main characteristics wash and choice becomes more difficult. Comparing complete systems is the best way of knowing the cables signatures.

Agreed!

 

[LL21]

One point however should be considered - using cable tuned for an higher impedance unit is acceptable , however the opposite will seriously affect sound quality -e.g. usually a cable tuned for tubes can be used for solid state, but not the opposite.

Thansk, Microstip. So if my TA RefMM (MM2) is set for 600ohm going to 100Kohms...what is your opinion of it being used for 2.5kohms going into 20kohms?

 

[microstrip]

Thansk, Microstip. So if my TA RefMM (MM2) is set for 600ohm going to 100Kohms...what is your opinion of it being used for 2.5kohms going into 20kohms?

Lloyd,

According to what we have been presented the 600 ohm seems to be the high impedance output type cable. It seemed to me that for these cables TA only have two IC tunings : low and high impedances. I would expect that low would be something around 50 ohms, as most solid state units, and the 600 ohms would be the generic high output impedance. Input seems perfect. So it seems you have the correct version of the cable. But is is just my feeling, even less reliable than being IMHO!

How does it sound?

 

[microstrip]

Would I be correct in interpreting that statement as "I liked the Odin, but my bank account doesn't!"?

Just consider I use a 6m XLR cable between preamplifier and amplifier ... I need a cable where cost does not scale almost linearly with length! You see, I managed to find a nice rational excuse not to buy it ...

 

[vinylphilemag]

Just consider I use a 6m XLR cable between preamplifier and amplifier ... I need a cable where cost does not scale almost linearly with length! You see, I managed to find a nice rational excuse not to buy it ...

I share your pain: my pre to power amp interconnects are also 6m (although single-ended)! Just "slumming" it with Frey here.

 

[LL21]

Lloyd,

According to what we have been presented the 600 ohm seems to be the high impedance output type cable. It seemed to me that for these cables TA only have two IC tunings : low and high impedances. I would expect that low would be something around 50 ohms, as most solid state units, and the 600 ohms would be the generic high output impedance. Input seems perfect. So it seems you have the correct version of the cable. But is is just my feeling, even less reliable than being IMHO!

How does it sound?

Thanks Microstrip! Just to make sure...my cable which is just below Opus MM2 has only hi and low impedance? If so, that is great news. As for sound, the initial sound is great. It has changed quite a bit since its been on the last few hours...it was at first difficult to distinguish from my older TA Ref (XL generation)...but as the last several hours of play have gone on...then when i flip back and forth between cables (i use one left and one right so i can immediately flip my preamp from one source to the other)...and the differences have grown.

 

[AMP]

my cable which is just below Opus MM2

You're 3 levels below Opus MM2

Opus MM2 > Reference MM MM2 > Reference XL MM2 > Reference MM2 > Ultra MM2 > Super MM2

EDIT::: Sorry, I think I misread. If you have Ref MM MM2 then you have far more tunable parameters than just the high / low impedance. Reference with MM2 is just a high / low cable.

 

[LL21]

You're 3 levels below Opus MM2

Opus MM2 > Reference MM MM2 > Reference XL MM2 > Reference MM2 > Ultra MM2 > Super MM2

EDIT::: Sorry, I think I misread. If you have Ref MM MM2 then you have far more tunable parameters than just the high / low impedance. Reference with MM2 is just a high / low cable.

Hi AMP, yes i am Reference MM MM2. So I am just curious if 600ohm to 100kohm (current setting) really needs to be recalibrated for my setting (2.5kohm to 20kohm).

 

[LL21]

Bizarre - when switching cables to compare...one of my TA Ref MM (MM2) cables is silent now. All inputs/outputs work with other cables. Its like the cable just went dead...is this possible?

 

[mep]

Bizarre - when switching cables to compare...one of my TA Ref MM (MM2) cables is silent now. All inputs/outputs work with other cables. Its like the cable just went dead...is this possible?

It is if the cable opened up somewhere along the path. It would be highly unlikely to have a break in an open part of the cable run (from the amp side of the speaker terminals to the network box and from the speaker side where it exits the network box). If there is an open connection, I would suspect the break to be inside of the terminal box.

 

[LL21]

It is if the cable opened up somewhere along the path. It would be highly unlikely to have a break in an open part of the cable run (from the amp side of the speaker terminals to the network box and from the speaker side where it exits the network box). If there is an open connection, I would suspect the break to be inside of the terminal box.

Thanks, MEP...i put it back in several times...nothing. Then all of a sudden, i deecided to twist the cap that TA uses to tighten the connection and put it back on and tighten...its back. Seems fine. Strange. I'll tell you one thing...i aint touchin it again.

 

[treitz3]

Sounds like you have compromised one of the cable ends [connector/solder joint within] to me, lloydlee21.

Tom

 

[LL21]

Sounds like you have compromised one of the cable ends to me, lloydlee21.

Tom

yeah...too much audiophilia nervosa...comparing old cables vs new...i have officially now stopped as the music is fully back now.

 

[microstrip]

Hi AMP, yes i am Reference MM MM2. So I am just curious if 600ohm to 100kohm (current setting) really needs to be recalibrated for my setting (2.5kohm to 20kohm).

Lloyd,

Sorry, but such cable does not exist ... I do not understand any more what people are referring to. Bellow Opus you have Reference MM2 tout court. It this the cable you own?

http://www.transparentcable.com/products/performance_sublevel_intro.php?catID=1&perfID=2&subcatID=2&modCAT=1

Considering the intermittent connection remember that sometimes some non standard RCA plugs manage to short ground and signal if you push them completely into the female connector - try pulling it half a millimeter and look if the signal comes back.