The Analog DAC

edorr

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May 10, 2010
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Yes the supply I got will work with the Carbon version not my CAPS 2 or the Zuma. However Vinnie is making a battery supply for the Zuma. His lead times are about 4 weeks. It is a very nicely made and I was hoping my CAPS 3.0 would have been here but I was waiting for the new Wasena cases which just arrived so anyday.

Please let me know if going from CAPS2.0 to CAPS 3.0 with battery power is worthwhile using the MSB USB input. I may go the same route.

Listening to the Diamond now before I leave for work. Really something

I found the Signature with legacy clock totally addictive. Can only imagine Diamond with Galaxy. How much would you say does the REF5SE add? Not that I am considering expensive tube pre, but just curious.
 

Priaptor

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I was surprised how much better. I was hoping not so I could sell the Ref 5se to help pay for this absurd thing I am considering. But I found it fuller and believe it or not absolutely no coloration or change in the base character of the Diamond.

Soundstage is better and much easier at medium to higher volumes particularly with more complex music such as orchestras
 

edorr

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I was surprised how much better. I was hoping not so I could sell the Ref 5se to help pay for this absurd thing I am considering. But I found it fuller and believe it or not absolutely no coloration or change in the base character of the Diamond.

Soundstage is better and much easier at medium to higher volumes particularly with more complex music such as orchestras

Thanksfully I am out of rackspace....
 

Priaptor

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I understand. And I am out of money and most likely soon to be divorced if I do what I am stupidly thinking of doing. But what the hell my sound system is more important than my marriage, no?!
 

edorr

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I understand. And I am out of money and most likely soon to be divorced if I do what I am stupidly thinking of doing. But what the hell my sound system is more important than my marriage, no?!

I'm in the same boat, but there are certain things better left unsaid in the interest of marital stability. This is my approach. DACs look pretty inconspicuous to the unsuspecting non-audiophiles spouse.
 

Priaptor

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Ahh we have the same mindset. I never tell and she knows better than to ever ask. Plus from a wife's perspective how much could a Femto Galaxy REALLY cost.
 

edorr

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Ahh we have the same mindset. I never tell and she knows better than to ever ask. Plus from a wife's perspective how much could a Femto Galaxy REALLY cost.

Few people can grasp the concept of a $10K piece of electronics weighing a few ounces and smaller than the size of pack of playing cards.
 

Elberoth

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As much as I admire the MSB stuff, the price for their Galaxy Femto clock is overly inflated. Crystek crystal oscilators that equal it in performance (level of phase noise they generate) are $30 each (which, mind you, is VERY expensive for a XO !).

Berkeley Alpha has those on board, as is the Calyx Femto DAC - and those (complete) DACs cost much less than $10k.

Same goes for uber expensive 'Signature' USB input module (compare that to the Berkeley Alpha USB converter @ $1890) or their Volume Control modules, which look like $50 in parts tops (and yet sell for $2000-$3000).

IMO they have choosen a policy similar to German car manufacturers in Europe - the basic car is not that expensive, but after you add some basic options, the price goes up by 30-50%.
 

Priaptor

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As much as I admire the MSB stuff, the price for their Galaxy Femto clock is overly inflated. Crystek crystal oscilators that equal it in performance (level of phase noise they generate) are $30 each (which, mind you, is VERY expensive for a XO !).

Berkeley Alpha has those on board, as is the Calyx Femto DAC - and those (complete) DACs cost much less than $10k.

Same goes for uber expensive 'Signature' USB input module (compare that to the Berkeley Alpha USB converter @ $1890) or their Volume Control modules, which look like $50 in parts tops (and yet sell for $2000-$3000).

IMO they have choosen a policy similar to German car manufacturers in Europe - the basic car is not that expensive, but after you add some basic options, the price goes up by 30-50%.

I cannot disagree with you there.

One of the things I can't stand about Porsche and the rest is the nickel and diming you for every option. In the "good old days" you bought one and there were no options. It seems like every manufacturer has followed suit, including Ferrari, another one that follows the course of German car companies.

I am assuming this is to pump up their margins.
 

Elberoth

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Here is how the Signature VC module ($2295) looks like:

dsc3580k.jpg

That part is 4 inches long. As I said - I don't think it costs more than $50 to manufacture, even when you factor in quality relays and fancy resistors. Even using standard industry marigins, it is difficoult to justify the $2295 price.

Another example - their $1395 Signature USB input module:

USB2_Sig_onWhite.jpg

They do not show what goes inside, but it cannot be much different to their $995 Basic USB192 one:

USB2_192onWhite.jpg

Now, compare that to the fabulous Berkeley Alpha USB/SPDIF converter that sells for $1890 (that is 30% more over MSB, but Berkeley also has his own enclosure and carton, which could eeasily account for that extra 30%):

alphausb1.jpg

See the difference ?

That is why I was so entusiastic when I have learned that they came with the Analog DAC, that already has femto clock, 384 USB input and volume control all standard @ $6995. Unfortunately, the AnalogDAC doesn't sound even remotely similar to the Diamond DAC. That DAC, as its clock's name suggest, is in another Galaxy :)
 

rockitman

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I cannot disagree with you there.

One of the things I can't stand about Porsche and the rest is the nickel and diming you for every option. In the "good old days" you bought one and there were no options. It seems like every manufacturer has followed suit, including Ferrari, another one that follows the course of German car companies.

I am assuming this is to pump up their margins.

As a multiple Porsche owner I agree. It didn't stop me from being a happy owner, however...
 

Priaptor

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The good news for me is that If I buy it I won't be buying it with the VC

Incidentally when you tried the Analog did you try it with their high end power supply?
 

mep

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Apr 20, 2010
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I understand. And I am out of money and most likely soon to be divorced if I do what I am stupidly thinking of doing. But what the hell my sound system is more important than my marriage, no?!

Send me a picture of your wife and I will give you my opinion. :p
 

edorr

WBF Founding Member
May 10, 2010
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That is why I was so entusiastic when I have learned that they came with the Analog DAC, that already has femto clock, 384 USB input and volume control all standard @ $6995. Unfortunately, the AnalogDAC doesn't sound even remotely similar to the Diamond DAC. That DAC, as its clock's name suggest, is in another Galaxy :)

Not so. The USB input and the volume control are both $1000 options on the analog DAC. What really turned me off was the $1000 pricetag for the RS232 on the analog DAC. That is insane. Thankfully, it comes standard on the DAC IV series.

Did I mention $500 for the front panel powerswitch option on the Powerbase. That buys you an Oppo 103.

Anyway, I remember paying $50 for a 25c proprietary piece of cable in the early Macintosh days, so MSB is not exactly a pioneer in the field of extortion.
 

Elberoth

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You are correct about the VC option. But still - $1k is not $2-$3k as in the case of DAC IV.

AFAIK you can exchange the AES digital in for USB at no cost. So if you don't need more inputs but USB, you can still have it for $7 or $8k, depending on the preamp option.
 

edorr

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May 10, 2010
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You are correct about the VC option. But still - $1k is not $2-$3k as in the case of DAC IV.

AFAIK you can exchange the AES digital in for USB at no cost. So if you don't need more inputs but USB, you can still have it for $7 or $8k, depending on the preamp option.

You are correct. You get one input for the $7K base price, which could be USB. With just the $1K VC, you're in business for $8K. Hoever, I remember you mentioned elsewhere you prefer the BADA II over this DAC, so it is not the giant killer / or sub 10K DAC price performance leader, just a contender. For the real MSB magic you still need to 2nd morgage the home.
 

Elberoth

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Well, that was indeed my first impression. BADA combo offers more in terms of sheer resolution - lest you hear deeper into the music, you hear more spatial clues, more HF details, the decays are longer. However, upon longer listening, I found it lacking a bit in terms of texture, which is where AnalogDAC excelled (at least compared to BADA - I would not describe the AnalogDAC as euphonic sounding). So in the end, after X-Raying all my CDs, I think I would rather go with the AnalogDAC out of the two.

The other DAC worth considering in that price range is the new Metrum HEX ($3500). It is simply outstanding, and its value-for-money is simply off the charts. I need to bring the AnalogDAC back to compare those two side by side, but relying on my (unreliable) aural memory I think they may be very close in performance.

The dealer also sent me the Briscatti DAC today.
 
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edorr

WBF Founding Member
May 10, 2010
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Well, that was indeed my first impression. BADA combo offers more in terms of sheer resolution - lest you hear deeper into the music, you hear more spatial clues, more HF details, the decays are longer. However, upon longer listening, I found it lacking a bit in terms of texture, which is where AnalogDAC excelled (at least compared to BADA - I would not describe the AnalogDAC as euphonic sounding). So in the end, after X-Raying all my CDs, I think I would rather go with the AnalogDAC out of the two.

The other DAC worth considering in that price range is the new Metrum HEX ($3500). It is simply outstanding, and its value-for-money is simply off the charts. I need to bring the AnalogDAC back to compare those two side by side, but relying on my (unreliable) aural memory I think they may be very close in performance.

The dealer also send me the Briscatti DAC today.

I had my eyes on a Metrum HEX, but our good friend Opus 111 pointed out its internal architecture (DAC chip) is very likely running at 48/24 max, so not a winner for high rez. The manufacturer did not deny this (just silence), so I presume it is true. So I struck it off my list. Of course, there is no volume control either.
 

edorr

WBF Founding Member
May 10, 2010
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Now, compare that to the fabulous Berkeley Alpha USB/SPDIF converter that sells for $1890 (that is 30% more over MSB, but Berkeley also has his own enclosure and carton, which could eeasily account for that extra 30%):

Keep in mind the Berkely USB converter has clocking circtutry (and powersupply of course). When you feed USB to the MSB dac this is entirely redundant. So of course $1400 for a USB interface is a rip off in terms of cost of components to price ratio, but you are really paying for the functionality (another gateway into the architecture of the MSB processing engine) more than components. an analogy is when you buy a software package you pay a license fee to switch features on and off. In this case, the cost to the manufacturer is not even the $50 - it is zero.
 

Elberoth

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Not sure where he is sourcing that information from. The manufacturer policy is not to reveal ANY details re chips they use.

The DAC sounds simply fabulous with hi-res stuff.
 

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