The Analog DAC

[Priaptor]

True, BUT, have there been any rumors about a DACV.

My understanding is that their "upgrades" are all field upgrades with board replacements that you can do in your home. The exception of course is the power base

 

[edorr]

True, BUT, have there been any rumors about a DACV.

My understanding is that their "upgrades" are all field upgrades with board replacements that you can do in your home. The exception of course is the power base

I beleive this is true going from Platinum to signature. SIgnature to Diamond requires the DAC to go back. However, they will do it for the price differential between the Signature and Diamond DAC. Upgrading powerbase costs a little more than price differential - I am paying $1500 to go from Signature PB to Diamond.

 

[Elberoth]

While it has been consistently reported the top of the line Diamond / Galaxy trounces the Analog (at 4 -5 times the price), opinions on the gaps between a signature plus (femto 140 clock) and a fullly loaded Diamond diverge. Since this configuration would be $15K MSRP cheaper than the fully loaded Diamond, you should probably get your hands on a Signature IV plus and hear for yourself if the Diamond / Galaxy is worth the extra $15K. If you are seriously considering spending this kind of money in the first place that is of course.

I demoed both - the Diamond and Signature (I still have this at home as I write), BOTH Femto Clock equipped. No contest - the Diamond is much better and easily worth the extra $$$.

In my experience, price / performance curve in MSB gear is almost linear - which is unussual, becouse most often you have to pay double to get the last 5-10%. Not so with MSB.

 

[edorr]

The alternative is waiting for the DACV to come out then look for a used DACIV Sig+ or Diamond

A used unit may show up even without a DACV being released. a used Diamond + Galaxy recently sold for about $27K by a guy in Australia on audioafficionado.

I personally was in the market for a Platinum and ended up with a signature because one showed up used. At MSRP this DAC is way out of my price range.

 

[Elberoth]

Upgrading powerbase costs a little more than price differential - I am paying $1500 to go from Signature PB to Diamond.

Still a good deal IMO.

 

[hvbias]

True, BUT, have there been any rumors about a DACV.

My understanding is that their "upgrades" are all field upgrades with board replacements that you can do in your home. The exception of course is the power base

You'd probably have to look at past MSB history for years between models to get an idea when it would happen.

 

[Elberoth]

Is the volume control something one can add at a later date?

Yes. All you have to do is to remove the top and install the modules. It is 100% plug&play. What you can do right now, is to remove the VC you have installed in your dac - maybe that will bring an improvement if you use the external preamp anyway ?

 

[Priaptor]

I beleive this is true going from Platinum to signature. SIgnature to Diamond requires the DAC to go back. However, they will do it for the price differential between the Signature and Diamond DAC. Upgrading powerbase costs a little more than price differential - I am paying $1500 to go from Signature PB to Diamond.

Well that is still a very reasonable upgrade policy. I wish more companies did the same. When I bought my REF5, a year and half later, ARC upgraded the REF5 to a REF5SE and had a similar policy to the one you state MSB has. It was very much appreciated. Of course, then they came out with the REF10 and there is NO upgrade policy as they are two different beasts although I am not quite sure what the differences are between the REF 10 and REF 40 other than one is an Anniversary model that may not be as good as the REF 10.

The policy you state MSB has is to be valued.

 

[edorr]

Well that is still a very reasonable upgrade policy. I wish more companies did the same. When I bought my REF5, a year and half later, ARC upgraded the REF5 to a REF5SE and had a similar policy to the one you state MSB has. It was very much appreciated. Of course, then they came out with the REF10 and there is NO upgrade policy as they are two different beasts although I am not quite sure what the differences are between the REF 10 and REF 40 other than one is an Anniversary model that may not be as good as the REF 10.

The policy you state MSB has is to be valued.

They actually used to do the powerbase upgrades for the price differential before (= $1000 Signature to Diamond), but lost money on the deal, so they jacked it up a bit. Not unreasonable.

 

[Priaptor]

I demoed both - the Diamond and Signature (I still have this at home as I write), BOTH Femto Clock equipped. No contest - the Diamond is much better and easily worth the extra $$$.

In my experience, price / performance curve in MSB gear is almost linear - which is unussual, becouse most often you have to pay double to get the last 5-10%. Not so with MSB.

I am assuming you have the "Galaxy" which is the Femto I am trying now?

 

[asiufy]

Priaptor,

Your experience is similar to mine. I listened to the mid-level Signature IV, and knew I had to have the Diamond So I bought that without even listening (not an option here where I live).
Now, what you can do to save some $$$ at this point is to get the Diamond sans the optionals, like the volume control, USB, i2S network port, fancy Diamond Powerbase, etc.
That'll get you the best DAC, and you can purchase a new upgrade every couple of months or so, without having to ship back to the factory.


alexandre

 

[edorr]

I demoed both - the Diamond and Signature (I still have this at home as I write), BOTH Femto Clock equipped. No contest - the Diamond is much better and easily worth the extra $$$.

In my experience, price / performance curve in MSB gear is almost linear - which is unussual, becouse most often you have to pay double to get the last 5-10%. Not so with MSB.

I guess I'll have to get a demo Diamond for a side by side comparison with the signature at some point to see if I come to the same conclusions. In a way a hope I will, because running out of upgrade paths is the obsessive compulsive audiophile's worst nightmare....

 

[Priaptor]

Priaptor,

Your experience is similar to mine. I listened to the mid-level Signature IV, and knew I had to have the Diamond So I bought that without even listening (not an option here where I live).
Now, what you can do to save some $$$ at this point is to get the Diamond sans the optionals, like the volume control, USB, i2S network port, fancy Diamond Powerbase, etc.
That'll get you the best DAC, and you can purchase a new upgrade every couple of months or so, without having to ship back to the factory.


alexandre

Thanks. That is what I was thinking as I use it via USB only with my server so all the other stuff would be a waste for me at least for now, although rumor has it they are working on some kind I2S server. The power base is an issue though.

I would need to sell some of my gear to justify the price which I am already working on.

Last night was really an amazing experience, one I rarely encounter in the high end.

 

[Elberoth]

I am assuming you have the "Galaxy" which is the Femto I am trying now?

Yes, I had the $10k clock installed in both units.

 

[edorr]

Thanks. That is what I was thinking as I use it via USB only with my server so all the other stuff would be a waste for me at least for now, although rumor has it they are working on some kind I2S server. The power base is an issue though.

I heard the same rumor. Did you do all your listening over USB? I have not tried the USB input yet, and am keen to learn how it compares to S/PDIF - AES/EBU coming out of the USB converter. With the FIFO buffer and reclocking on all inputs I suspect the differences will be very small.

 

[Priaptor]

I heard the same rumor. Did you do all your listening over USB? I have not tried the USB input yet, and am keen to learn how it compares to S/PDIF - AES/EBU coming out of the USB converter. With the FIFO buffer and reclocking on all inputs I suspect the differences will be very small.

That and their transport. Right now I am using a CAPS 2.0 design, but will be upgrading that shortly. The transport is what MSB considers their "bit perfect" standard and send it with the DEMO to ensure the customer hears it the way they want you to hear it. I heard a slight difference between, edge to the transport with the Analog which I thought was awesome but no difference with the Diamond.

 

[edorr]

That and their transport. Right now I am using a CAPS 2.0 design, but will be upgrading that shortly. The transport is what MSB considers their "bit perfect" standard and send it with the DEMO to ensure the customer hears it the way they want you to hear it. I heard a slight difference between, edge to the transport with the Analog which I thought was awesome but no difference with the Diamond.

I have a CAPS 2.0 as well, but have not tried it over USB. I am still figuring out what to do with my Trinnov DRC in the chain, but if I decide to keep DRC (which I probably will), I will load Dirac Live on my CAPS 2.0, take out the Trinnov and run the CAPS into the MSB over USB.

What are you upgrading the CAPS 2.0 to? If I run out of steam with Dirac Live I will get the CAPS 3.0 zuma.

 

[Priaptor]

I have a CAPS 2.0 as well, but have not tried it over USB. I am still figuring out what to do with my Trinnov DRC in the chain, but if I decide to keep DRC (which I probably will), I will load Dirac Live on my CAPS 2.0, take out the Trinnov and run the CAPS into the MSB over USB.

What are you upgrading the CAPS 2.0 to? If I run out of steam with Dirac Live I will get the CAPS 3.0 zuma.

I was thinking about the Zuma but wanted to keep the computing power as low as possible while still maintaining the best sonics. I just got the Red Wine's Black Audio battery power supply delivered while I wait for my Carbon Caps 3.0. I have tried many servers and just about every Mac player and IMHO nothing compares to JRiver + Caps. I am not a fan of JPlay, but that is me, hence I didn't need the Zuma, but I was considering it.

 

[edorr]

I was thinking about the Zuma but wanted to keep the computing power as low as possible while still maintaining the best sonics. I just got the Red Wine's Black Audio battery power supply delivered while I wait for my Carbon Caps 3.0. I have tried many servers and just about every Mac player and IMHO nothing compares to JRiver + Caps. I am not a fan of JPlay, but that is me, hence I didn't need the Zuma, but I was considering it.

I fiddled with JPlay (Jriver plugin) and ditched it. Sonics aside, it is a total kludge and made my system unstable. If I end up running Dirac Live and needing more processing power I'll get the zuma. I suspect the way MSB has implemented asychronous USB with buffer, the sonic differences between sources will be small at best. Please report how the battery works out. I presume you need a CAPS 3.0 to be able to use battery power.

 

[Priaptor]

Yes the supply I got will work with the Carbon version not my CAPS 2 or the Zuma. However Vinnie is making a battery supply for the Zuma. His lead times are about 4 weeks. It is a very nicely made and I was hoping my CAPS 3.0 would have been here but I was waiting for the new Wasena cases which just arrived so anyday.

Listening to the Diamond now before I leave for work. Really something