THE HIFI FIVE ROUNDTABLE DISCUSSION STREAMING LIVE ON YOUTUBE PREMIERING IN OCTOBER!

[Ron Resnick]

As a result of a viewer question on the show last night about my personal influencer status and accommodation discount purchases I responded that I don't disclose anything explicitly because I assume that people know that influencers receive accommodation discounts. But that does not satisfy my own ethical principle about transparency and disclosure.

So I have now written into my WBF signature the following disclosure:

Purchasing Disclosure: As an industry influencer I am privileged to have purchased my components at accommodation discounts, typically 40% off of MSRP. I have the Innuos Pulsar on long-term loan, courtesy of Innuos. The VTLs I purchased used. I paid full MSRP for the Gryphon Pendragon loudspeaker system.

 

[Kbh57]

Big kudos for taking this step. I think you are right that the availability of accommodation pricing is widely known, but probably not universally so. I hope others will follow your excellent example.

I’ve worked as a regulator, worked in heavily regulated industries, and currently sit on regulatory boards ehere potential conflicts of interest are an important and sensitive topic.In my view, potential conflicts of interest, whether through accommodation pricing, long-term loans, even straight out cash payments are not necessarily a problem if handled properly. The key is disclosure so that consumers can decide for themselves whether the circumstances warrant discounting the opinion presented by a reviewer or an influencer, or anyone else who touts certain brands or pieces of gear.

It’s not the accommodation that is toxic, it’s the lack of disclosure. And by accommodation, I mean any consideration that would not be generally available to a consumer who isn’t expected to discuss the product.

Thank you for your principaled stand, which ultimately benefits the consumers who finance this whole enterprise and should never be left out of these discussions.

 

[Bobvin]

How many “likes” or “followers” does it take to qualify as an “influencer?”

 

[PeterA]

Big kudos for taking this step. I think you are right that the availability of accommodation pricing is widely known, but probably not universally so. I hope others will follow your excellent example.

I’ve worked as a regulator, worked in heavily regulated industries, and currently sit on regulatory boards ehere potential conflicts of interest are an important and sensitive topic.In my view, potential conflicts of interest, whether through accommodation pricing, long-term loans, even straight out cash payments are not necessarily a problem if handled properly. The key is disclosure so that consumers can decide for themselves whether the circumstances warrant discounting the opinion presented by a reviewer or an influencer, or anyone else who touts certain brands or pieces of gear.

It’s not the accommodation that is toxic, it’s the lack of disclosure. And by accommodation, I mean any consideration that would not be generally available to a consumer who isn’t expected to discuss the product.

Thank you for your principaled stand, which ultimately benefits the consumers who finance this whole enterprise and should never be left out of these discussions.

I assume everyone even remotely involved in the industry gets some kind of accommodation price. I also assume almost no one pays full retail on the expensive high end items.

Regarding discounting opinions, that’s simply a matter of reading what is written or hearing what it said, and forming a judgment.

 

[Elliot G.]

Peter you know what they say about assuming

 

[Bobvin]

And here all along I’ve been reluctant to ask for any allowance if I’m buying something from a line not carried by Rhapsody. I guess that makes me the sucker. Damn!

 

[PeterA]

Peter you know what they say about assuming

Well, Elliot, almost everyone I know has gotten discounts on their expensive gear. So I am extrapolating and yes, that is an assumption. I understand your dealer perspective.

 

[Elliot G.]

Like I said you have an incredibly small sample

 

[Kbh57]

Well, Elliot, almost everyone I know has gotten discounts on their expensive gear. So I am extrapolating and yes, that is an assumption. I understand your dealer perspective.

Getting a discount is not the point. Sometimes I’ve received a discount from the list price and sometimes I have not. Maybe I’m not a very good negotiator. But I’ve never, not once, received anything of value with the expectation or understanding, spoken, or unspoken, that I would talk favorably, or talk at all, about the product. That’s the point..

 

[PeterA]

Getting a discount is not the point. Sometimes I’ve received a discount from the list price and sometimes I have not. Maybe I’m not a very good negotiator. But I’ve never, not once, received anything of value with the expectation or understanding, spoken, or unspoken, that I would talk favorably, or talk at all, about the product. That’s the point..

Yes, I understand your point, and I agree. I was expanding the point that these prices are often so high that people are able to get discounts, hobbyists and influencers alike. I was curious to read that Ron describes himself as an "influencer" in addition to his industry affiliations. I wonder what qualifies someone as an influencer and eligible for 40% discounts? I too applaud the transparency and disclosure. Accommodations in exchange for positive forum posts is quite interesting. I wonder how prevelent that is. Interesting topic.

 

[Elliot G.]

Correct the negotiation of a price has nothing to do with the subject of quid pro qou. If you are receiving value for your posts or reviews or videos without disclosing it then you are literally shilling .

 

[PeterA]

Correct the negotiation of a price has nothing to do with the subject of quid pro qou. If you are receiving value for your posts or reviews or videos without disclosing it then you are literally shilling .

How does this relate to audio "influencers"? Ron stated that he thinks people assume influencers do receive some price accommodations. I doubt they all disclose it. I appreciate Ron's disclosure. It seems unusual to me. Given the sensitivity of the subject, I don't think there will much of an honest discussion of this on a public forum and then it will be dismissed because of lack of specifics. So it goes.

 

[adyc]

Everyone knows influencers got discounts. But not many people know the quantity of discount. I applaud Ron’s transparency. This is the first time I read explicitly the discount is 40%.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Everyone knows influencers got discounts. But not many people know the quantity of discount. I applaud Ron’s transparency. This is the first time I read explicitly the discount is 40%.

influencers is a nebulous term, used by different people in different ways, Ron is a dealer and hifi forum owner as well as an influencer. as a dealer he mostly can get dealer cost (generally less 40%) for his own use in any case. so his disclosure likely surprises few.

not all influencers (by any definition) view themselves as industry insiders at all, although some do....and truly are.

 

[VinylPoke97]

People will say what does it matter as far as reviewer accommodations. Well there are a lot of people that don’t have a chance to go listen to a lot of gear. Maybe location. Maybe ability to travel. Who knows. I don’t have as much of a problem from an influencer getting accommodations bc if you are using influencer to help make your audio decisions….you get what you deserve. Reviewers (especially from industry level journals/magazines) are a different story. You are putting yourself out there as an unbiased reviewer. People are putting their trust and hard earned money to help make decisions for them. It is like a journalist vs a TV personality. TBH, I am really disappointed in Robert Harley and the whole long term loan thing. Right or wrong, I just don’t feel like I can trust him as a reviewer any longer (especially on the gear that he has on long term loan). Makes me wonder what kind of deal he got on his ISO wall system. In the medical field, we police ourselves. You pulled stuff like this in a journal and you would be professionally burned at the stake. JMO.

 

[PeterA]

People will say what does it matter as far as reviewer accommodations. Well there are a lot of people that don’t have a chance to go listen to a lot of gear. Maybe location. Maybe ability to travel. Who knows. I don’t have as much of a problem from an influencer getting accommodations bc if you are using influencer to help make your audio decisions….you get what you deserve. Reviewers (especially from industry level journals/magazines) are a different story. You are putting yourself out there as an unbiased reviewer. People are putting their trust and hard earned money to help make decisions for them. It is like a journalist vs a TV personality. TBH, I am really disappointed in Robert Harley and the whole long term loan thing. Right or wrong, I just don’t feel like I can trust him as a reviewer any longer (especially on the gear that he has on long term loan). Makes me wonder what kind of deal he got on his ISO wall system. In the medical field, we police ourselves. You pulled stuff like this in a journal and you would be professionally burned at the stake. JMO.

I stopped reading the absolute sound and Robert Harley when they claimed a new best every month. Who can take the magazine seriously? Nice pictures I suppose.

 

[bonzo75]

Who can take the magazine seriously?

Those on the forum who do, should show themselves, so we can interpret your posts accordingly.

 

[tima]

How does this relate to audio "influencers"? Ron stated that he thinks people assume influencers do receive some price accommodations. I doubt they all disclose it. I appreciate Ron's disclosure. It seems unusual to me. Given the sensitivity of the subject, I don't think there will much of an honest discussion of this on a public forum and then it will be dismissed because of lack of specifics. So it goes.

Everyone knows influencers got discounts. But not many people know the quantity of discount. I applaud Ron’s transparency. This is the first time I read explicitly the discount is 40%.

Perhaps unknown to you, the industry membership accommodation discount has been public for quite some time and is discussed on this forum. Resnick gets it because he is a dealer, a member of the audio industry. The amount of a discount is determined by whomever grants the discount and there is no fixed percentage, which can run between 25% - 60%. and is typically 40% -- 50% -- the same as dealer' cost from a manufacturer. Manufacturers are sometimes more generous than distributors and dealers. Any member of the industry can request accommodation pricing.

To my understanding there is no audio industry membership known as "influencer". Which is not to say there are no influencers -- someone proselytizing a particular brand for remuneration in return, but without public awareness of this being done. The idea behind being an influencer is that the one who is influencing is not known to be influencing for pay, He talks up a product's virtues while appearing as a 'normal' audiophile, a regular user of the product. There are such influencers on this forum.

Has the focus of the forum shifted? Is it the marketing, promotion and cheerleading arm of selected companies? Has advertising changed the landscape?

Unless I missed it, has S Williams been crickets on this thread? If this whole thread is, indeed, meant to "target" one person, then that's incredibly inappropriate. I doubt that it is. I am sure that Elliott has both the professionalism and the chutzpah to confront an individual on his own...

www.whatsbestforum.com

Has the focus of the forum shifted? Is it the marketing, promotion and cheerleading arm of selected companies? Has advertising changed the landscape?

The issue is in defining “ industry affiliation”. If someone gets 55% discounts on gear that they post positively about is that an industry affiliation? Lots of people get 10% discounts, what’s the line? If someone gets a discount or other consideration in exchange for promoting product, how...

www.whatsbestforum.com

 

[hopkins]

Concerning the first question in the last episode, it is always surprising to meet audiophiles who do not seem to have a real interest in music, and are really listening to their systems - but so be it. What is more interesting to me is to see what non-audiophile (meaning, it's not their hobby) serious music listeners (musicians, critics, etc...) choose to own.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Recall that since 2024 payment for a presumed positive review --  at least by consumer influencers -- has been illegal in the United States:

"It is an unfair or deceptive act or practice and a violation . . . for a business to provide compensation . . . conditioned . . . by implication on . . . the . . . creation of consumer reviews expressing a particular sentiment, whether positive or negative, regarding the product . . . or business that is the subject of the review."

§ 465.4 Buying Positive or Negative Consumer Reviews of 16 CFR 456: Trade Regulation Rule on the Use of Consumer Reviews and Testimonials (August 14, 2024)