It may be 15-20% of the gain but the preamp’s sonic imprint on a system is far larger than that. You probably should have started with getting the very best preamp in the world and then the amps…just IMHO…
In Pursuit of the very best amplifier (to my ears!) money can buy...
- Thread starter pk_LA
- Start date
As a friend and I have found out when comparing many preamps in his system, and a few power amps as well, the sound of combinations of preamp and power amp can vary in surprisingly unpredictable ways, especially when both are not from the same manufacturer (this should also be a caveat for both preamp and power amp reviews, especially when either are tested with just one partner).
Therefore, I doubt anyone can claim there is a universally best preamp. You can either pick a power amp or a preamp to start with, it may not matter much for the final outcome.
Except when you start with the power amp, at least you know it can drive your speakers well in terms of bass control and dynamics. But then, these attributes may also vary in perception with different preamps in front of the power amp, and again, not necessarily always in predictable ways...
The variability from amp to amp is often occurring when a preamp doesn't have a very low output impedance or is for some other reason weak in it's drive. I have found that there are preamps that are very consistent from amp to amp when the output impedance is < 100 ohms and they can supply a lot of current (meaning they have a large and low impedance power supply). Also, if the amps in question have a high input impedance (this is not the case for many SS amps) then the preamp will vary less and you will hear more the true contribution from the preamp.
There is for sure less variability in a preamp's ability to drive an amp than the amp to drive certain speakers. Again, this depends on whether or not the speaker designer was ridiculous in having very low impedance dips, and large phase shifts just to get a relatively flat on-axis response.
Then you could have set a good example and role model by using FM yourself, which you recommend to others here at wbf at every possible opportunity.
Andro has promised to buy FM and Wadax and Trios after I buy a system.
It only needs One. My friend with Lyras (and XVX/Subsonics and AG Trios) has Relentless and Apex. He will tell you the Apex is the superior amp. Another option is the Revelation (stereo or monos) due out next month.
That's been one of our claims to fame too only we did it with tubes.Drive any length of cable or no matter how many power amplifiers. Extreme bandwidth.
P-1X EXCELLENCE S2 – Am Audio di Attilio Conti
www.amaudio.it
One of the things a good active line stage brings to the table is a lower output impedance than a simple passive volume control can express. The lower output impedance helps reduce colorations caused by the interconnect cable.
This is taken to an extreme with proper implementation of balanced lines. If done properly you literally cannot tell the difference between cables.
There is one caveat with the Apex. I don’t know if they’ve addressed it but when first turning on it would trip breakers. If it my money (I would have to hear them first to be sure) but since the Revelation now contains much of the Apex innards in a smaller more refined ( to my eye) package I’d get Revelation monos and save a few bucks. My Evo can drive my Orions to insane SPL without turning the preamp past 28. It goes to 99. I await my Revelation in a couple of weeks. Gryphon and Rockport are a match made in heaven. The local dealer runs Orions with top CH Precision and it’s like they drained all the life out of them. As I stated my friend with Lyras has both Relentless and Apex and prefers Gryphon. I heard Lyras with Soulution at Rockports facility in Maine and was unimpressed with them
Fascinating. As a big fan of Gryphon who owned them for 12 consecutive years up to Mephisto up until moving to Robert Koda (another pure Class A beast), I could imagine how great the Apex is…it is the comparison to the Relentless that is a new data point for me. Again, fascinating to know.
And absolutely enthralled with each of his 3 choices for speakers. AG Trio possibly my choice for favorite speaker…other than the Rockport Arrakis. And I own XLFs!
Still thinking about Trios…? You should go for it and match them with some gorgeous tubes!
Hey Morricab,
Believe me…if horns were allowed in the house, we would have! But that is the one kind of speaker that is not allowed in the living room. Not least because they take up so much room. Probably 50 square feet between the 2 channels. Even the Rockport Arrakis takes up to only 12 square feet across both channels.
As for amps, I would probably be happy to keep the Robert Kodas…at the AG Trios impedance of 15 ohms, the Koda would deliver 70 watts per channel pure Class A and designed by a super talented designer who was an understudy of Kondo San.
The Kodas might be one SS amp to work well on the Trios. The new Duo GT or Mezzo G3 are very good too and take way less floor space.
Thank you…we have also spoken of the Acapella Hyperion but that also got a no for the same reason…a not insignificant 1m diameter horn. In fact, big horns like Mezzo got a no.
Nevertheless, in a large dedicated library/room the 2 horns that intrigue me are Trio G3 and the massive Montemar Primus Statement and matching pair of 21” subs.
We share such point of view. Although I regret it, I always preferred my system with a preamplfier. Even playing tapes in a Studer A80 ...
As far as I have read the it is more "the way the sound engineer /producer intended" than the "artist intended" . And most of the time it implies just the the tonal balance of the recording. My preferred general word for sound reproduction aim is "enjoyment" and it is what I look in my system. The factors that bring me enjoyment are a separate subject.
In fact, as the preamplifier has an attenuator - the volume control - it does not contribute to gain - it decreases it. It is a bizarre device - it has a block with gain and an usually needs to cancel it!
I still prefer most 70's rock music listened through big JBL speakers than in my high-end system - it sounds like it sounded when it became part of my life. At that time it was a pair of 4311's driven by Quad 405's in the system of a good friend father! If it was not for the logistics due to weight and size I would like to host a pair of DD67000's for a week ...
last i spoke to Jacob Heilbrunn he still preferred the darTZeel 468's overall on the AG G3's but continues to search for the right tube amps to use.
Yes and I have read he also preferred the 468s to the iTron. I wonder if he will ultimately find a tube amp, a Kondo, a Thomas Mayer, the Hifi One Berning Monos.
as counterintuitive as it might be, i'm told the G3's respond to some power reserves. and Jacob's room is large. at 115db eff noise is a huge issue too. tube sexy sometimes includes some distortion which the G3 will expose. so maybe the landscape is limited.
Similar threads
 | Steve Williams Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator |  | Ron Resnick Site Owner | Administrator |  | Julian (The Fixer) Website Build | Marketing Managersing |