Has the focus of the forum shifted? Is it the marketing, promotion and cheerleading arm of selected companies? Has advertising changed the landscape?

[Rt66indierock]

Surely reviewers are biased - IMO bias is part of this hobby and particularly of the high-end. All we can do it is learn to live with it and rationalizing it.

An audiophile without biases would be victim from the Buridan’s ass paradox - curiously I know a few that were victims of it!

Ok consider this, my goal in any system I’ve assembled is to reproduce the high lonesome sound. A preference. Achieving the goal is easier using the tools of my profession to minimize bias.

Buridan’s Ass Paradox fails because it doesn’t consider the passage of time. In my part of the world, Arizona and specifically in Oatman, a wild burro has no trouble making any decisions about food.

An audiophile who can’t make a decision about two audio components is still making a good decision not buying either component.

PS I’ve been busy so please catch me up on your engineering background.

 

[microstrip]

Ok consider this, my goal in any system I’ve assembled is to reproduce the high lonesome sound. A preference. Achieving the goal is easier using the tools of my profession to minimize bias.

Lucky person. Some of the tools of my profession have shown me that I should not minimize my bias and avoid specific tools to do it if I want to enjoy the hobby.

Buridan’s Ass Paradox fails because it doesn’t consider the passage of time. In my part of the world, Arizona and specifically in Oatman, a wild burro has no trouble making any decisions about food.

Them we can only conclude that burros in Oatman do not know what is a rational decision. Do you think audiophiles also lack this capability? Surely it would compromise my analogy ...

An audiophile who can’t make a decision about two audio components is still making a good decision not buying either component.

Unfortunately no. In practice he will buy both and die starving because he has no money left for food.

PS I’ve been busy so please catch me up on your engineering background.

Sorry, I retired one year ago and I am not applying for a new job ...

 

[Another Johnson]

Ok consider this, my goal in any system I’ve assembled is to reproduce the high lonesome sound.

One of my friends*, now passed, played with Bill. Loved my friend … but that high lonesome sound is lonesome for a reason.

* https://rolandwhite.com/

 

[Rt66indierock]

Bang on Mike. I happen to be an unabashed fan of Steve Guttenberg’s YouTube channel, and part of the reason is that I’ve watched dozens of his reviews since he launched the channel about seven(?) years ago. Without that, “reading between the lines” wouldn’t be possible, even though he always ends reviews with a “So, Steve, how do you REALLY feel about it” comment. He almost never does a negative review (if he doesn’t like it he doesn’t publish the review, but I assume he provides feedback to the manufacturer to help them make the product better).

But most importantly, he describes sound in a language that resonates with me. I GET what he’s saying. He listens to a lot of rock music and so do I, so when he describes what he’s hearing on an album, I understand where he’s coming from. On the other hand, there’s a long-time Stereophile reviewer who has carved out a niche by reviewing pricey amps who only listens to digital and who mostly listens to classical music. I have tried but can’t convince myself his reviews have any value to me. And that’s just fine.

I’m sorry, I know Steve we’ve talked many times. He is just an audio salesman who graduated to writing and producing videos. He could never understand why we fought MQA so hard, and we had a go around about tweeters. I left most conversations shaking my head.

JVS is a nice guy who liked MQA and has musical tastes out of the mainstream. I hold accountable for his promotion of MQA.

 

[tima]

And the publisher gets money from manufacturers. Reviewers and influencers can get financial support from distributors to cover expenses associated to travel and stay to cover shows.

Print and on-line publications get money from advertising. When I covered CES travel and hotel were paid by the publisher. Some dealers are comped vacations and travel by manufacturers. I don't see that as different from other businesses.

 

[microstrip]

and i view reviewers and reviews not that different from forum members and what they post. little happens in a vacuum. what is written is in the context of what has previously been written, and actions too, and to understand it requires some observation over time. then the pieces fit. and things written have more value and are more understandable and useful to me. i forgive omissions, and recognize deeper inferences.

Well, I expect a difference between reviewers and forum members. Formal reviewers should have a degree of responsibility and consistency that I do not ask in forum opinions. IMO reviews must supply quality information and surely opinions, not judgement or absolute rankings.

The democracy of the internet and the easiness of videos blurred the concept of an audio review. The only wise thing an high-end consumer can do is educating himself or getting support from a trusty dealer. IMO no effective regulation is possible in this area.

 

[microstrip]

Print and on-line publications get money from advertising. When I covered CES travel and hotel were paid by the publisher. Some dealers are comped vacations and travel by manufacturers. I don't see that as different from other businesses.

Yes, if we ask a big manufacturer which section of his business deals with reviewers he will tell us it is the marketing section.

 

[bonzo75]

Well, I expect a difference between reviewers and forum members. Formal reviewers should have a degree of responsibility and consistency that I do not ask in forum opinions.

Formal reviewers are very consistent. They consistently pick a new favourite every edition.

 

[microstrip]

I’m sorry, I know Steve we’ve talked many times. He is just an audio salesman who graduated to writing and producing videos. (...)

IMO surely he is not a reviewer any more - I do not remember of any memorable review he carried in the past, probably my fault. Please point them to me if you have better memory than me. I see him as a good and experienced salesman and a great story teller, providing good entertainment. I also see him as an audio writer, too much involved with known people in the industry to be an effective reviewer.

Disclaimer1 - I did not watch his videos, just read the text transcriptions of few or them.

Disclaimer 2 - I respect good, competent dealers. IMO they can do a lot more for this hobby than most influencers.

 

[Tangram]

I assume some reviewers (whom I've read receive as little as $150 per review, a pittance considering the work involved) only review to get accomodation pricing so it makes sense that they review equipment they like.

 

[Republicoftexas69]

I disagree. Anything about marketing that isn’t covered by the confidentiality laws and regulations of my profession is fair game. Any private marketing deal is suspicious.

Why?

 

[andromedaaudio]

I assume some reviewers (whom I've read receive as little as $150 per review, a pittance considering the work involved) only review to get accomodation pricing so it makes sense that they review equipment they like.

Poor business model .
Cant expect much for that lol.
( you ll never hear me complaining about reviewers again )

 

[Lee]

I assume that is not generally known and should be, given that it is a standard practice.


But do you think that reviewers are more likely to be even more positive in their review when they factor in the 50% reduction? That seems like human nature.

Not really. They can get that from competing products. I think most reviewers are trying to do a fair evaluation.

 

[Lee]

I assume some reviewers (whom I've read receive as little as $150 per review, a pittance considering the work involved) only review to get accomodation pricing so it makes sense that they review equipment they like.

It varies from $150 to $350. A pittance for the time involved. The tiny size of the industry and poor media economics doesn’t support more.

As a result, other benefits are needed to attract reviewers including accommodation pricing, press junkets, factory tours, and free rooms at shows.

 

[andromedaaudio]

I assume some reviewers (whom I've read receive as little as $150 per review, a pittance considering the work involved) only review to get accomodation pricing so it makes sense that they review equipment they like.

I would do cable reviews then .
Much more money in those
3 different interlinks and seperate powercords plus loudspeaker cables.
I charge extra for cable lifters

 

[Lee]

Well, I expect a difference between reviewers and forum members. Formal reviewers should have a degree of responsibility and consistency that I do not ask in forum opinions. IMO reviews must supply quality information and surely opinions, not judgement or absolute rankings.

The democracy of the internet and the easiness of videos blurred the concept of an audio review. The only wise thing an high-end consumer can do is educating himself or getting support from a trusty dealer. IMO no effective regulation is possible in this area.

As we have seen here and on the Hoffman forum, as forums grow they take on their own financial interests so they are just as susceptible to bias toward products as print and digital magazines are. Now we are witnessing some YouTube influencers becoming dealers.

I feel much better about this if the financial relationships are disclosed.

 

[Hornsolutions Swen]

An extremely interesting thread. However, only the first few pages were engaging and funny; after that, it became increasingly boring, even though the topic has tremendous potential. What a shame. Have a nice Sunday anyway.

Best Regards Swen

 

[microstrip]

As we have seen here and on the Hoffman forum, as forums grow they take on their own financial interests so they are just as susceptible to bias toward products as print and digital magazines are. Now we are witnessing some YouTube influencers becoming dealers.

I feel much better about this if the financial relationships are disclosed.

Don't expect it. The whole subject is like having an elephant in the room. The target of Eliot's original post was very clear, but it soon changed - reviewers become the punching bag of the thread and we mostly repeated the same old discussion on reviewing.

I really like this forum and enjoy participating, but I feel that the members field of intervention is growing narrower by the day.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Ok lets move the discussion to analogue versus digital then ,
Im not sure we ever touched on that subject

 

[Kingsrule]

Unless I missed it, has S Williams been crickets on this thread?