Ron’s New System

[PeterA]

I installed both yesterday at 1 pm PT.


No, because I need the crossovers on the speakers to play the system. I need the preamp in place to play the system.

OK, I understand. Were you not curious as a hobbyist to learn the effect of each one on your overall listening experience? I remember in your criticism of system videos that their only utility may be if one only changes one variable at a time and present two comparison videos.

As a reviewer and Hegel dealer, I thought you might have another familiar preamp available to assess the impact of the old and new speaker crossovers, for example.

 

[AudioLibertarian]

That’s selective reading of what Ron wrote. Audiophiles seem to do selective reading, retention, and interpretation to confirm beliefs

Listen here , u read things however u want and perceive them.i ll read and write however I see things , is that clear enough for u?!

 

[bonzo75]

Listen here , u read things however u want and perceive them.i ll read and write however I see things , is that clear enough for u?!

He actually spelt it out without any ambiguity that it wasn’t just Hegel but a lower gain Incito, and it was the higher gain Incito that did the trick, and you are saying you see things as only Hegel? Clear enough for me.

 

[PeterA]

He actually spelt it out without any ambiguity that it wasn’t just Hegel but a lower gain Incito, and it was the higher gain Incito that did the trick, and you are saying you see things as only Hegel? Clear enough for me.

From what I can see, it may be the new crossover, or the preamp, or some combination of both. The edginess went away based on his memory of not hearing the system for a while, I guess. He changed both at the same time, plus another change or two. We are all speculating as to the cause of the lessoning of the edginess.

 

[bonzo75]

From what I can see, it may be the new crossover, or the preamp, or some combination of both. The edginess went away based on his memory of not hearing the system for a while, I guess. He changed both at the same time. We are all speculating as to the cause of the lessoning of the edginess.

data point is that it happened for two preamps and not for the high gain one of the same make as one of the two

 

[PeterA]

data point is that it happened for two preamps and not for the high gain one of the same make as one of the two

OK, if I understand you Bonzo, you are suggesting it is not the new preamp. Is that correct? Could you be more explicit and tell us why Ron no longer hears the edginess? I guess I am dense.

 

[Kingrex]

Polite line. Tao politely told Ron what I do, but in such a way Ron thanked him for it

You tell people the sound you like and push them to move in that direction. I took Tao as saying we all have a flavor we like, seek it for out own pleasure and tell everyone why we like it.

 

[Kingrex]

From what I can see, it may be the new crossover, or the preamp, or some combination of both. The edginess went away based on his memory of not hearing the system for a while, I guess. He changed both at the same time, plus another change or two. We are all speculating as to the cause of the lessoning of the edginess.

I agree. Ron has 0 idea if the edginess was the preamp or the crossover. I would also lean to the crossover. My gut says the preamp did little to change the sound.

Ron really needs to disconnect the preamp and put the Hegel back in. I bet the edginess is still gone. Maybe he will deport the Italians. Unless he is dealing the line and recognizes the mark up on Aries is more $$ to pocket than Hegel.

 

[bonzo75]

OK, if I understand you Bonzo, you are suggesting it is not the new preamp. Is that correct? Could you be more explicit and tell us why Ron no longer hears the edginess? I guess I am dense.

new preamp improved things as it had higher gain, is what Ron said. Either way, there was no need to single out only Hegel based on Ron’s comments which was my discussion with audio libertarian. So rest is a digression

 

[Ron Resnick]

I remember in your criticism of system videos that their only utility may be if one only changes one variable at a time and present two comparison videos.

Yes; only one thing ever should be changed at a time to be able to attribute what is going on.

As a reviewer and Hegel dealer, I thought you might have another familiar preamp available to assess the impact of the old and new speaker crossovers, for example.

Last week I loaned my Hegel preamp to a friend who needed it.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Were you not curious as a hobbyist to learn the effect of each one on your overall listening experience?

Yes; I would be curious to determine a conclusively what was the source of the edginess.

But, candidly, I have had so many problems with the system over such a long period of time that I really was even more focused on trying to get to a sound I'm actually happy with as quickly as possible (even if it meant sacrificing the hobbyist angle and intellectual curiosity to identify the source of the issue).

 

[Ron Resnick]

From what I can see, it may be the new crossover

Florián, founder of Clarisys, confirmed that nothing in the new crossover would impact directly the 5kHz range. Many of us know how altering one portion of the frequency range can affect other portions of the frequency range, however.

However, in this particular case, the diminution in edginess is so obvious that I believe that something more specifically electrical is going on. I think it's very interesting that I had the same problem with two very different preamps both of which had unusually low gain. Switching to dramatically higher gain appears to have solved the problem.

While higher gain in the preamp doesn't electrically change the output of the amplifier (it only increases the input voltage to the amplifier) I suspect there must be some way in which the Italians are now better impedance matched to the preamp or experiencing less stress.

 

[Argonaut]

lol … I see that Aries Cerat derangement syndrome is alive and well within WBF since I last looked in … It appears that some individuals are transparently desperate to attribute the sonic evolution of this system to the speaker crossover alone … perhaps the OP should conduct a single component change evaluation in order to satisfy the desperation of these individuals !

 

[Elliot G.]

Thinking now I may not know to what sound the liquid attribute or characteristic applies. Could it be a psychoacoustic phenomena that only results from listening to a stereo? Or perhaps 'merely' a 'personal subjective' response of a listener to certain sounds. I have no idea of what is meant by 'sonic cue' other than a sound that triggers emotions or memories

I have been to a lot of concerts of all kinds of music and in all sizes of venues. I ahve never ever left a concert thinking "wow that was so liquid" Liquid IMO is a color that one chooses because one likes it. Voices have dynamics, just like other instruments. I am sorry but music is not liquid that is a HIFI term. In fact it is a Hifi distortion and if you select that , which is your choice, you are altering everything you hear in your system.

 

[Audiohertz2]

Both comments are valued , but since we are listening to recordings of live music and all Idiosyncrasies involved , Ron’s comment has validity …

 

[morricab]

He actually spelt it out without any ambiguity that it wasn’t just Hegel but a lower gain Incito, and it was the higher gain Incito that did the trick, and you are saying you see things as only Hegel? Clear enough for me.

The gain does not have a large effect on the Incito sound character.

 

[morricab]

I agree. Ron has 0 idea if the edginess was the preamp or the crossover. I would also lean to the crossover. My gut says the preamp did little to change the sound.

Ron really needs to disconnect the preamp and put the Hegel back in. I bet the edginess is still gone. Maybe he will deport the Italians. Unless he is dealing the line and recognizes the mark up on Aries is more $$ to pocket than Hegel.

The change in preamp will not be subtle. Preamps have a profound effect on the overall sound character. That said, the edginess was more likely due to a cheap active crossover.

 

[Ron Resnick]

The gain does not have a large effect on the Incito sound character.

Yes, I understand, and I agree with you, now that I have heard Incito Ses with both gain structures. My hypothesis is that something reduced the stress on the Italians.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I have been to a lot of concerts of all kinds of music and in all sizes of venues. I ahve never ever left a concert thinking "wow that was so liquid"

This is a very fair point. I could easily discontinue the use of the term "liquid," and replace it with dry and not dry, or with more dry and less dry.

If I were to say that to my ears, idiosyncratically, personally, Boulder is at the dry end of this spectrum and Jadis or Shindo is at the not dry end of this spectrum would you know what I am talking about?

 

[bonzo75]

The gain does not have a large effect on the Incito sound character.

Does it have on matching with the poweramp character