Ron’s New System

[the sound of Tao]

Hello Tao,

I am puzzled why you are repeating this, because I reiterated that maximizing liquidity is not my goal.

Having read many thousands of your posts Ron my take on your approach and your preferences isn’t just based on any one of your responses and interpretations of what your system is doing or where your preferences might have led you.

Whenever I read a post from anyone on the forum that shares their experiences on their own gear it’s part of a developing big picture view of where they have gone in this journey.

From a summative interpretation of the things that you say and the gear that you prefer and the music that you play you seem (to me) to lean into an emphasis and prioritise gear choices on maximising sonic beauty.

I’ve never felt that the types of music that you like and the way you characterise the sound that you aim for then necessarily leads back to being always balanced in the notion of not just that sonic beauty but the capacity of your system to then render music to not emphasise that beauty in such a way that it can also get out of the way when it needs to be less about flow when the music says grunge and it needs to get angular.

I’m also relating my experience of living with Magnepan 20.7s for over a decade as a sound you have commented positively on and the kind of experiences panels I believe often may leads us to.

From my perspective we’re all just taking a position about what’s right for us and less a value judgment and more about interest and observation… my response to your post is more based on how I actually have come to understand your process from all you have shared with us and from the expectations I have come to have from some similar (but not the same) experiences and nothing more than that.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Having read many thousands of your posts Ron my take on your approach and your preferences isn’t just based on any one of your responses and interpretations of what your system is doing or where your preferences might have led you. Whenever I read a post form anyone on the forum that shares their experiences on their own gear it’s part of a developing big picture view of where they have gone in this journey.

From a summative interpretation of the things that you say and the gear that you prefer and the music that you play you seem do (to me) to lean into an emphasis and prioritise gear choices on maximising sonic beauty

I’ve never felt that the types of music that you like and the way you characterise the sound that you aim for then necessarily leads back to being always balanced in the notion of not just that sonic beauty but the capacity of your system to then render music to not emphasise that beauty in such a way that it can also get of the way when it needs to be less fluid when the music says grunge

I’m also relating my experience of living with Magnepan 20.7s for over a decade as a sound you have commented positively on and the kind of experiences panels I believe often may leads us to.

From my perspective we’re all just taking a position about what’s right for us and less a value judgment and more about interest and observation… my response to your post is more based on how I actually have come to understand your process from all you have shared with us and from the expectations I have come to have from some similar (but not the same) experiences and nothing more than that.

All fair enough!

 

[Kingrex]

From my perspective we’re all just taking a position about what’s right for us and less a value judgment and more about interest and observation…

Great line.

 

[gleeds]

The stereo is playing music. Out of the box the Incito S sounds wonderful!

I am confused because the edginess from the Italians either largely or completely went away. Maybe the edginess was from the Hegel preamp all along. But I also struggled with some edginess when I had the Incito S demo.

The other thing that changed is that I replaced the $29 Harrison Lab FMOD high-pass filters and the Electronic Visionary Systems discrete resistor attenuators with custom, super high-quality parts attenuator plus high pass filter from Phil Marchand. But that only affects the woofer ribbon signal; it has nothing to do with the signal path for the midrange/tweeter ribbon.

I'm not gonna dwell on this too much. I was way overdue for some good stereo luck. I'm happy with the sound.

We will have to see what all the boys think!

The only thing that matters is that you have music again! Congratulations on the new pre and Marchand. Regardless of the band treated, I believe the EVS/Marchand setup is making a real difference. When recently upgrading bass amplifiers in VS speakers for owners skeptical that a lower-distortion device addressing the low end could also dramatically clean up the midrange, but sure enough, it did. I also imagine this means you have received your updated Clarysis crossovers?

 

[AudioLibertarian]

Well, few of us have told you that Hegel is most likely to be the culprit for that edginess.... Now feel vindicated, sorta

 

[the sound of Tao]

Maybe we need to spin a bit more deeply into the semantics.
We have liquidity and angularity.
Neither of which I have seen defined, but seem suggestive.

And we are mixing them together like hot and cold water to make something more Goldilocks like?

Just briefly (and not wanting to veer off in Ron’s thread) for me it is flow which best represents the quality that has angularity as a balancing pole opposite… that’s just my subjective take on it and getting this right in a system is critical (deal breaker) in really enjoying someone’s setup and in its ability to render music and its performance.

 

[Ron Resnick]

The only thing that matters is that you have music again! Congratulations on the new pre and Marchand. Regardless of the band treated, I believe the EVS/Marchand setup is making a real difference. When recently upgrading bass amplifiers in VS speakers for owners of the legacy product who were skeptical that a lower distortion device addressing the low end could also dramatically clean up the midrange, but sure enough, they did, and not in a subtle manner. I also imagine this means you have received your updated Clarysis crossovers?

Thank you, Gary!

Yes, I have the updated Clarisys crossovers.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Just briefly (and not wanting to veer off in Ron’s thread) for me it is flow which best represents the quality that has angularity as a balancing pole opposite…

What sonic attribute does "angularity" describe? (I like conceptual terms, but I don't understand what you mean.)

 

[gleeds]

Thank you, Gary!

Yes, I have the updated Clarisys crossovers.

 

[Holmz]

What sonic attribute does "angularity" describe?

I am imagining edgy, sharp, maybe PRAT. And flow then being relaxed.

The worst combo would be tweeter edgy, and woofer or subwoofer wallowing.
But I think some “dynamic attack” (and lack of compression), could be leaning towards angular? And maybe without the negative connotations.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Well, few of us have told you that Hegel is most likely to be the culprit for that edginess.... Now feel vindicated, sorta

But I had the edginess with the demo Incito S as well. The common preamp denominator there, very interestingly, is very low gain. That's why my operating hypothesis is that the much higher gain of the new Incito S (Stavros predicted the high gain setting would be best) is somehow taking pressure off the Italians.

But I know this is not correct electrically.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Which makes me happy, because I've been struggling with those Italians, and I love them! (845 x 4 in a walnut and steel chassis is pretty much tube porn.) The Italians are no longer at risk of deportation!

 

[bonzo75]

Great line.

Polite line. Tao politely told Ron what I do, but in such a way Ron thanked him for it

 

[bonzo75]

Well, few of us have told you that Hegel is most likely to be the culprit for that edginess.... Now feel vindicated, sorta

That’s selective reading of what Ron wrote. Audiophiles seem to do selective reading, retention, and interpretation to confirm beliefs

 

[morricab]

But I had the edginess with the demo Incito S as well. The common preamp denominator there, very interestingly, is very low gain. That's why my operating hypothesis is that the much higher gain of the new Incito S (Stavros predicted the high gain setting would be best) is somehow taking pressure off the Italians.

I have also found the high gain to sound the best. That said, you are using a better rectifier as well, no? Finally, the amps maybe had more break in time too? Just some other hypotheses to mull over.

 

[PeterA]

Ron, when did you install the upgraded speaker crossover relative to hooking up your new pre-amplifier?

Can you separate for us the effect of each on your listening experience?

 

[morricab]

The stereo is playing music. Out of the box the Incito S sounds wonderful! There is a richness and tonal density that makes the sound more realistic and less electronic artifice.

I am confused because the edginess from the Italians either largely or completely went away. Maybe the edginess was from the Hegel preamp all along. But I also struggled with some edginess when I had the Incito S demo.

The other thing that changed is that I replaced the $29 Harrison Lab FMOD high-pass filters and the Electronic Visionary Systems discrete resistor attenuators with custom, super high-quality parts attenuator plus high pass filter from Phil Marchand. But that only affects the woofer ribbon signal; it has nothing to do with the signal path for the midrange/tweeter ribbon.

The new preamp is the same as I demoed previously for several months, so that shouldn't be the reason. But the new version of the preamp is standard (high) gain, rather than the unusually low gain if the demo Incito S. I think it has something to do with the much higher gain structure putting less pressure on the Italians.

And this is without any sound absorbing panel Band-Aids. I have a Tube Trap covering each first rear reflection point. And the big TubeTraps in the corners. But there are no flat acoustic panels anywhere in the room, not even covering the sidewall first reflection points.

(I've stopped trying to figure out some of the "whys" in this wacky and confounding hobby.)

I'm not gonna dwell on this too much. I was way overdue for some good stereo luck. I'm happy with the sound!

We will have to see what all the boys think! Don is coming over on Saturday.

Is that an active or passive high pass filter from Marchand?

 

[Ron Resnick]

Ron, when did you install the upgraded speaker crossover relative to hooking up your new pre-amplifier?

I installed both yesterday at 1 pm PT.

Can you separate for us the effect of each on your listening experience?

No, because I need the crossovers on the speakers to play the system. I need the preamp in place to play the system.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Is that an active or passive high pass filter from Marchand?

passive

 

[Ron Resnick]

That said, you are using a better rectifier as well, no?

yes